Does John 5:24-29 contradict the belief that one must believe in Jesus to avoid eternal death?

[Stumpmaster]

Can you defend those actions as moral and right?
What's wrong with this picture?

All that God does is moral and right.

Job 36:22-24 Behold, God is exalted in His power. Who is a teacher like Him? (23) Who has appointed His way for Him, or told Him, ‘You have done wrong’? (24) Remember to magnify His work, which men have praised in song.

God is all-knowing and all-wise, if He weren't He wouldn't be God. In the book of Isaiah 40:13-14 it is written: "Who can fathom the Spirit of the Lord, or instruct the Lord as his counselor? Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? Who was it that taught him knowledge, or showed him the path of understanding?" This passage suggests that no one can counsel God because He is omniscient and the source of all wisdom and all He does is always just and right.

 

[bluedragon]

What do you think is missing . . . that you think should be included in the canon?

The way I read it .... Sheol had two rooms. One for the Godly men who believed and followed the word. Abraham's Bossum or Paradise existed for one purpose .....to house these Godly men because Jesus had not come yet. When Jesus came and died on the cross, he went to paradise and closed the doors or kicked open the doors from within. At his command "No one comes before God except by him." He shed his blood for the purpose of being the one and only savior .....That closes the door on those good men who don't believe he is the one and only "Son of God"

 

[St. SteVen]

All that God does is moral and right.

Global genocide equals moral and right?
Not by human standards.
Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Global genocide equals moral and right?
Not by human standards.
Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?

Sacrificed His Son . . . go figure.

 

[Patrick1966]

Not by human standards

Depends on the human. Many humans have believed in genocide. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Not by human standards

Depends on the human. Many humans have believed in genocide. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.

Well, of course. - LOL
I meant in general.

 

[Patrick1966]

St. SteVen said:
Not by human standards

Well, of course. - LOL
I meant in general.

I have encountered Christians that believe that Hitler was justified to murder Jews because it was Jews that killed Jesus.

There are also Christians that believe it's morally acceptable for a healthy woman to abort her healthy but unborn offspring.

Many people will justify ANYTHING.

 

[St. SteVen]

Many people will justify ANYTHING.

Hopefully not global genocide. - LOL

 

[Patrick1966]

Hopefully not global genocide. - LOL

There are probably some Mother Earthers out there that might!

 

[Stumpmaster]

The way I read it .... Sheol had two rooms. One for the Godly men who believed and followed the word. Abraham's Bossum or Paradise existed for one purpose .....to house these Godly men because Jesus had not come yet. When Jesus came and died on the cross, he went to paradise and closed the doors or kicked open the doors from within. At his command "No one comes before God except by him." He shed his blood for the purpose of being the one and only savior .....That closes the door on those good men who don't believe he is the one and only "Son of God"

The Bible is absolutely authoritative on no-one coming to the Father except through Christ.

 

[Taken]

John 5:24-29 esv

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.


In verse 24 Jesus says that believers have "eternal" life.

In verse 29 Jesus says those resurrected who did "good" will have life. Notice Jesus said nothing about faith or belief.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm gleaning that believers in Jesus go straight to Heaven. Unbelievers are DEAD in the ground until their resurrection on the last day but those unbelievers that were nevertheless Godly people will remain among the living forever.

Believers IN JESUS, have a CAVEAT.
The CAVEAT IS they “SHALL BE SAVED”,
“IF” on the day of their BODILY DEATH, they BELIEVE IN JESUS.

Why the caveat, “IF”?
Because at whatever point in their lives they BELIEVE “IN” Jesus, which means: they BELIEVE God sent Jesus, Jesus died, and God raised Jesus from the Dead.

They:
1) Are blessed with the Spirit of God for being enlightened to and for Believing the Knowledge of Gods Truth.
2) Jesus’ Spirit is with them.

ALERT….Multiple warnings in Scripture….

3) They CAN BE, by influences of men, of evil spirits, convinced TO DOUBT Gods Word, TO REJECT Gods Word.
4) IF they are convinced to doubt or reject Gods Word…
~ Jesus will no longer be with them.
~ They will no longer receive enlightenment of Gods Truth.
~ They will bodily die having rejected Jesus.
~ They will have forfeited their souls salvation, and not be soul saved after their bodily death.

The CONTRAST….The ASSURANCE…
IN CHRIST JESUS.

IN CHRIST JESUS is a person WHO, willingly :
* Repents to the Lord God FOR HAVING NOT BELIEVED.
* gives his bodily life, as a living sacrifice, CRUCIFIED WITH JESUS,
* receives the Salvation of his soul THEN.
* receives the Quickening of his spirit THEN.
* receives the SPIRIT of God…with AND IN him.
* IS FOREVER WITH the Lord God, BY the Power of God VIA, Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

IN JESUS….by their own WILL and POWER can fall away from being WITH JESUS.

IN CHRIST JESUS…by their own WILL to commit and Gods POWER IN them, they can Never fall away from being WITH CHRIST JESUS.

Scriptures DO NOT CONFLICT. Scriptures are simply Gods KNOWLEDGE….
It is the Billions of individuals exercising their own FREEWILL, which determines WHICH Scriptures DO or DO NOT Apply to expressly to them.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The Bible is absolutely authoritative on no-one coming to the Father except through Christ.

The Word of God…IS God, IS Spirit
And
The Power of God…IS God, IS Spirit
IS
Without beginning or ending.

Little bits, Little knowledge, Very Little understanding of the knowledge….is the How
EVERY Human Begins its LIFE….from Adam to every natural born baby.

Men who had NEVER heard the words…
Jesus, Son of Man, Son of God, Messiah, Savior, Christ…..freely chose to BELIEVE IN God…Gods WORD….Gods POWER…..or not.

Gods WILL, ORDER, WAY….is entirely at His Pleasure….WHOM, HOW, WHEN, WHY….God Shall SAVE a mans soul, Shall QUICKEN a man spirit, Shall give a man an IMMORTAL body…..and THAT KNOWLEDGE ….
TO the advantage of men living in an AGE, of Scriptures being written by Scribes, copied, rewritten by Recorders, copied by hand, distributed, rewritten on presses, bound in books, distributed in this world’s nations, taught, preached, discussed, believed by willing listeners, rejected by some listeners….
All exercising their own FREEWILL.

Were ancient believing men coming to the Father THROUGH CHRIST?

The Answer IS YES….but ancient men DID NOT KNOW that FACT.

Will a modern child or an adult first learning about God, about Jesus, and Believe IN their Heart IN God….or Believe IN their Heart IN Jesus….(on the day of their bodily Death)….
BE EXCLUDED from Gods gift of Salvation….
Because while alive, they didn’t mention CHRIST? No.

Belief in ones Heart IS the key….Not that an individual MUST needs be informed of every Name, Title, that Applies to the Lord God Almighty….

While manKIND spends his lifetime learning, doubting, believing, wondering, learning….
The Lord God Almighty…IS ALL-KNOWING…
He Already KNOWS what every individual manKind of being SHALL CHOOSE….and According to Gods Order and Way ALREADY He has Prepared a Place FOR a mans;
Body, soul, spirit….that is wIth or is against HIM….and He has SET a specific TIMES for HIM to Collect/Redeem/Gather What IS with Him and Collect/Gather/Destroy what IS against Him.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[mailmandan]

Well the Bible is not a textbook. It requires spiritual understanding.

Amen! 1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I was once in a conversation with someone who believed that the only thing involved in coming to saving faith in Christ was paper, ink and human intelligence. Of course that same person taught salvation by works, which was his idea of saving faith in Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

John 5:24-29 esv

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

In verse 24 Jesus says that believers have "eternal" life.

In verse 29 Jesus says those resurrected who did "good" will have life. Notice Jesus said nothing about faith or belief.

We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture (John 5:29) with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. (John 5:24)

The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis or means by which they have obtained salvation, but is the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.

Doing good flows from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows from a heart that is unsaved, as we also see in Romans 2:6-11. Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil. Believers are described as "those who have done good" and unbelievers are described as those "who have done evil." This is where they stand before God.

Just as in Romans 2:10: Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good. Just as ALL in Romans 2:9 who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil.

 

[Keiw]

John 5:24-29 esv

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.


In verse 24 Jesus says that believers have "eternal" life.

In verse 29 Jesus says those resurrected who did "good" will have life. Notice Jesus said nothing about faith or belief.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm gleaning that believers in Jesus go straight to Heaven. Unbelievers are DEAD in the ground until their resurrection on the last day but those unbelievers that were nevertheless Godly people will remain among the living forever.

It speaks about the real Jesus.
It takes more than believing--Matt 7:22-23-these believe yet will hear those words as judgement. So what does believing mean? = Learning and applying every thing Jesus taught. Obeying = proof of ones love. --John 3:36- those who disobey Jesus will not get eternal life.
Few on earth even know what Jesus actually teaches. One cannot obey if they don't know what he taught.

 

[DJT_47]

Scripture does NOT contradict itself and must be looked at cumulatively. You cannot extract one passage only and found a belief upon it, but rather, you must take all pertinent scriptures to ascertain in total what they say cumulatively.

 

[Keiw]

Scripture does NOT contradict itself and must be looked at cumulatively. You cannot extract one passage only and found a belief upon it, but rather, you must take all pertinent scriptures to ascertain in total what they say cumulatively.

Trinity translations have contradictions. They contradict Jesus to the core. Few know what he actually taught.

 

[St. SteVen]

those who disobey Jesus will not get eternal life.

Sounds like we are ALL toast.

Few on earth even know what Jesus actually teaches. One cannot obey if they don't know what he taught.

How are you doing on your list?

Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.
Freely you have received; freely give.

 

[Keiw]

Sounds like we are ALL toast.

How are you doing on your list?

Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.
Freely you have received; freely give.

Those things don't occur today. Except healing. and freely giving.
Jesus taught--FEW will find the road that leads off into life. Matt 7:14)--He as well compared these last days to Noahs day( 99.9% mislead) Luke 17:26)-99% minimum today mislead. Why? Because FEW know what Jesus actually teaches. 99% of all the religions claiming to be christian get paid( not freely giving) to teach the religions brand of dogma and little of what Jesus taught.

 

[DJT_47]

Trinity translations have contradictions. They contradict Jesus to the core. Few know what he actually taught.

Trinity TRANSLATIONS -- - - . Translations is the key word. Once again, scripture does not contradict itself.