Rome and Antichrist

[St. Joseph]

Daniel tells of 4 beast he saw in a vision. 3 were brought down by another army,but Roman Empire fell in on itself.
Zechariah brings up those kingdodms again,and tells us Roman Empire will be revived and Christ will be the one who destroys her for good after the tribulation.

 

[face2face]

Daniel tells of 4 beast he saw in a vision. 3 were brought down by another army,but Roman Empire fell in on itself.
Zechariah brings up those kingdodms again,and tells us Roman Empire will be revived and Christ will be the one who destroys her for good after the tribulation.

Do you mean Chapters 3&7 maybe?

 

[St. Joseph]

Do you mean Chapters 3&7 maybe?

Of which book?

 

[face2face]

Of which book?

Daniel - unless you are speaking about the banded stump with its Babylonian root system i.e Catholicism? Verse 15.

 

[St. Joseph]

Daniel - unless you are speaking about the banded stump with its Babylonian root system i.e Catholicism? Verse 15.

11th chapter of Daniel

 

[Robert Gwin]

Daniel tells of 4 beast he saw in a vision. 3 were brought down by another army,but Roman Empire fell in on itself.
Zechariah brings up those kingdodms again,and tells us Roman Empire will be revived and Christ will be the one who destroys her for good after the tribulation.

When Christ returns, he will destroy all governments of the earth. God's Kingdom then will rule over the earth. Dan 2:44 And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall the sovereignty thereof be left to another people; but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

 

[Brakelite]

Daniel tells of 4 beast he saw in a vision. 3 were brought down by another army,but Roman Empire fell in on itself.
Zechariah brings up those kingdodms again,and tells us Roman Empire will be revived and Christ will be the one who destroys her for good after the tribulation.

Close, but not quite. The statue of Daniel 2 gives you the framework on which to build the prophecies of Daniel 7,8,11 and 12. The head of gold, Babylon. Defeated as you say by Meda-Persia, the silver chest and arms. They were defeated by Greece, bronze torso, (Alexander the Great), whose empire was divided eventually into 4 (see Daniel 7:6 and 8:8). Out of one of the compass points (Daniel 8:9) came a little horn, the pagan Roman empire, the iron legs, which grew into a powerful empire, not the same little horn one as in Daniel 7, which did indeed collapse and was taken over by 10 barbarian tribes, 7 of which became the principle nations of early Europe. The Roman empire however, the iron, although it changed by connecting itself to the clay, was still iron... Was still Rome... Until it was destroyed at the second coming. There was no gap or time when Rome didn't exist. There is no resurgence or revival of the pagan empire. Rome had never gone away.
So. The question is, where was it in history? The answer is, and the only answer, is found in the Roman Catholic Church. I know, they don't like to be called Roman. But that's what they are. They are Rome, only Rome, and all Rome.
Notice on Daniel 8 how the little horn grew to exceeding great power, to the south, to the east, and to the pleasant land? (Vs9), but that at some time in it's history it set it's sights on heavenly spiritual authorities and powers, to devour them as it had done to earthly powers. This became papal Rome, exalting itself even to challenge God by changing His laws. (Daniel 7:25)
Realize this... Rome isn't coming again, it's never left.

 

[face2face]

When Christ returns, he will destroy all governments of the earth.

That's actually not true...though you might like it to be true lol.
Psalm 2 - I expect some will kiss the Son.

 

[St. Joseph]

That's actually not true...though you might like it to be true lol.
Psalm 2 - I expect some will kiss the Son.

Christ will put down all governments. Government will be on his shoulders.
He will rulebwith a rod of iron.
He will be a dictator. But a just one.

 

[strepho]

This is incorrect. Second thessalonians chapter 2 and micah chapter 1 to document, satan as antichrist comes 6th trump to Jerusalem. Revelation chapter 9:5, its 5 month period. The temple is in Jerusalem. Satan as antichrist will go into temple of God and claim to be God, second thessalonians chapter 2. Revelation chapter 11, thiers rod of destruction for the temple. Satan polluted it near future. When Jesus returns 7th trump, the temple is turned into dust. Jesus will establish new temple during millennium. Ezekiel was 40 to 48 is about the millennium. Antichrist comes 6th trump to Jerusalem near future. Those who worshipped antichrist will have spot in hell, documentation, revelation chapter 14.

 

[face2face]

Christ will put down all governments. Government will be on his shoulders.
He will rulebwith a rod of iron.
He will be a dictator. But a just one.

You missed the point St Joseph - whats the difference between destroying all governments and subduing all governments.
We need to get the message clear and concise - it's more than likely goverments will be allowed to manage the nations in the interim while Christ establishes his earthly Kingdom although they will be subject to him.

 

[face2face]

Close, but not quite. The statue of Daniel 2 gives you the framework on which to build the prophecies of Daniel 7,8,11 and 12. The head of gold, Babylon. Defeated as you say by Meda-Persia, the silver chest and arms. They were defeated by Greece, bronze torso, (Alexander the Great), whose empire was divided eventually into 4 (see Daniel 7:6 and 8:8). Out of one of the compass points (Daniel 8:9) came a little horn, the pagan Roman empire, the iron legs, which grew into a powerful empire, not the same little horn one as in Daniel 7, which did indeed collapse and was taken over by 10 barbarian tribes, 7 of which became the principle nations of early Europe. The Roman empire however, the iron, although it changed by connecting itself to the clay, was still iron... Was still Rome... Until it was destroyed at the second coming. There was no gap or time when Rome didn't exist. There is no resurgence or revival of the pagan empire. Rome had never gone away.
So. The question is, where was it in history? The answer is, and the only answer, is found in the Roman Catholic Church. I know, they don't like to be called Roman. But that's what they are. They are Rome, only Rome, and all Rome.
Notice on Daniel 8 how the little horn grew to exceeding great power, to the south, to the east, and to the pleasant land? (Vs9), but that at some time in it's history it set it's sights on heavenly spiritual authorities and powers, to devour them as it had done to earthly powers. This became papal Rome, exalting itself even to challenge God by changing His laws. (Daniel 7:25)
Realize this... Rome isn't coming again, it's never left.

Thanks Brakelite - spot on with this post!

 

[St. Joseph]

You missed the point St Joseph - whats the difference between destroying all governments and subduing all governments.
We need to get the message clear and concise - it's more than likely goverments will be allowed to manage the nations in the interim while Christ establishes his earthly Kingdom although they will be subject to him.

I understood that the 12 would set on thrones and take care of that.

 

[face2face]

I understood that the 12 would set on thrones and take care of that.

You mean the 12 who preside of the 12 tribes of Israel?
No, the world will still need governence else what would happen?

 

[Robert Gwin]

That's actually not true...though you might like it to be true lol.
Psalm 2 - I expect some will kiss the Son.

Really? What is your take on Dan 2:44?

 

[face2face]

Really? What is your take on Dan 2:44?

Eventually, and no one knows the time frame, Christ will rule over all the Kingdoms of men, so in the context of the image statue, this Kingdom of God will not be left to other peoples, there will be no transference of power as has happened in the past, requiring the various metals to form the Image. Its rulers will be immortal! Have a look at Rev 5:9-10, 20:6.

 

[face2face]

I understood that the 12 would set on thrones and take care of that.

Governments will be made to subject themselves to Christs rule not dissimilar to how the various empires made Israel subject to them.

You get a sense of it here - notice how they are still called Nations?

He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.

So while Christ will eventually be King of all the Earth, I believe there will be a transition period from a time of great wars, to a time of peace.

The grinding of the image by the stone cut without hands will be a time when Christ reveals to the world his God and Father, who throughout time has disposed Kings and nations as per Jer 10:6-7, God's wrath will be known "the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide His indignation" See Jer 10:6-7,10; Rev. 15:3 etc.

We are told if Nations do not humble themselves before Christ he will send many plagues upon those nations until they do. Zech 14:16-19

Enjoy
F2F

 

[face2face]

I'm not sure how the JW's deal with this prophecy. We have Christ being sent to earth to smash the feet of the image and bring the image down. The grinding of that image to powder till nothing remains will take some time. They believe Jesus remains in Heaven with the 144,000 which is nowhere taught - actually its the opposite.

All other powers will be broken in pieces (metals of the Image as Mic 4:13), and will be consumed (Luke 20:18). "The nation and the kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish", Isaiah was moved to proclaim (See Isa. 60:12. See also Psa 2:8-9). All other powers will be incorporated into the Empire of Christ which will be coextensive with the globe (see Zech 14:9). The "first dominion" of that Kingdom will be vested in Israel (Mic 4:7) to which all other powers will be subservient.

These prophecies are most beautiful when brought together.

F2F

 

[Robert Gwin]

Eventually, and no one knows the time frame, Christ will rule over all the Kingdoms of men, so in the context of the image statue, this Kingdom of God will not be left to other peoples, there will be no transference of power as has happened in the past, requiring the various metals to form the Image. Its rulers will be immortal! Have a look at Rev 5:9-10, 20:6.

Yes Face, you are exactly correct, except possibly in termination, as it will be only one Kingdom that displaces those kingdoms sir Mat 6:10

 

[St. Joseph]

Yes Face, you are exactly correct, except possibly in termination, as it will be only one Kingdom that displaces those kingdoms sir Mat 6:10

True.....
So it will be Christ's kingdom and he will rule. Not individual nations. Imo