Rome and Antichrist

[MatthewG]

To help quitethinker

Though God is a consuming fire.
'Deut 4:24, "Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est" ("The Lord your God is a consuming fire"); 9:3, "Dominus Deus tuus ipse transibit ante te ignis devorans atque consumens" ("The Lord your God will Himself go before you, a devouring and consuming fire"); Heb 12:29, "Deus noster ignis consumens est" ("Our God is a ...

He used the roman empire to leave them desolated and divorced for their admission to kill the King.

Fire rained down on top of them destorying everything material.


Same fire happens burning away darkness imo. Our spiritual darkness in our soul.

 

[Brakelite]

It is assumed the expression 'fire from heaven' means the fire comes from God. Could it be that 'the fire' is from men using High tech weapons which destroys themselves? The word 'heaven' does not need to mean God's dwelling place. It can also mean the sky/ our atmosphere.
Considering it is the Devil who steals, kills and destroys and God who is the life giver, I doubt the fire is from God.

You could very well be right. Or it could simply be the presence of God Himself revealing Himself to mankind without a Mediator... The Consuming Fire.

 

[Brakelite]

What about 1 Corinthians 15 where it says that Jesus gives the kingdom to God?

Good point.

 

[Patrick1966]

Good point.

It's good that you are willing to modify your beliefs based on scripture, most here are not.

 

[Davy]

You guys are missing one extremely important component of Christ's second coming. He will not touch the earth, nor establish any kingdom on earth, not at that time.

Did you REALLY... say that Brakelite???

I've noticed many of my Christian brethren only stay in the New Testament, and completely ignorant of the following detail about Lord Jesus' future RETURN on the "day of the Lord", AND... bringing all His faithful saints with Him there to the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem!

Zech 14:1-9
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one.
KJV

 

[Jay Ross]

To help quitethinker

Though God is a consuming fire.
'Deut 4:24, "Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est" ("The Lord your God is a consuming fire"); 9:3, "Dominus Deus tuus ipse transibit ante te ignis devorans atque consumens" ("The Lord your God will Himself go before you, a devouring and consuming fire"); Heb 12:29, "Deus noster ignis consumens est" ("Our God is a ...

He used the roman empire to leave them desolated and divorced for their admission to kill the King.

Fire rained down on top of them destroying everything material.


Same fire happens burning away darkness imo. Our spiritual darkness in our soul.

Well Matthew, you show a complete lack of understanding in your reading of the scriptures. 2 Chron 7:12ff tells us that there was a completely different reason for Israel to be scattered throughout the whole earth and for the temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed in 70 AD, and every attempt to rebuild the temple since then not being successful.

With Israel, in the near future, becoming the First Fruits of Christ's when the Everlasting Kingdom is established, there is hope for all of mankind to being redeemed by God if they chose to turn once more to God.

Even Moses warned all of Israel that if they turned away from God and entered into idolatrous worship what the consequences would be, in the scripture Deuteronomy 4: 22ff. To confirm what I am saying, here is the passage for you to read and understand: -

Deuteromony 4: 22ff 22 But I (Moses) must die in this land/place, I must not cross over the Jordan; but you shall cross over and possess that good earth. 23 Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God which He made with you and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of anything which the Lord your God has forbidden you. 24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.​

​

25 "When you beget children and grandchildren and have grown old in the land, and act corruptly and make a carved image in the form of anything, and do evil in the sight of the Lord your God to provoke Him to anger, 26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the earth which you cross over the Jordan to possess; you will not prolong your days in it, but you shall utterly desolate it. 27 And the Lord will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the Lord will drive you. 28 And there you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29 But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in distress, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when you turn to the Lord your God and obey His voice 31 (for the Lord your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.​

​

32 "For ask now concerning the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether any great thing like this has happened, or anything like it has been heard. 33 Did any people ever hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as you have heard, and live? 34 Or did God ever try to go and take for Himself a nation from the midst of another nation, by trials, by signs, by wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? 35 To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord Himself is God; there is none other besides Him. 36 Out of heaven He let you hear His voice, that He might instruct you; on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words out of the midst of the fire. 37 And because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them; and He brought you out of Egypt with His Presence, with His mighty power, 38 driving out from before you nations greater and mightier than you, to bring you in, to give you their land as a possession, as it is this day. 39 Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. 40 You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the Lord your God is giving you all for a time."​

If we want things to go well for us "Christians," then we need to bless Israel instead of cursing Israel, which justifies us rejecting that Israel has a very important part to play in these End Times, like you did in your post above.

Be very careful with the gun that has been loaded for you to miss use.

 

[Brakelite]

It's good that you are willing to modify your beliefs based on scripture, most here are not.

It's actually something I already knew but had forgotten. Good on you for reminding me .

 

[MatthewG]

Well Matthew, you show a complete lack of understanding in your reading of the scriptures. 2 Chron 7:12ff tells us that there was a completely different reason for Israel to be scattered throughout the whole earth and for the temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed in 70 AD, and every attempt to rebuild the temple since then not being successful.

With Israel, in the near future, becoming the First Fruits of Christ's when the Everlasting Kingdom is established, there is hope for all of mankind to being redeemed by God if they chose to turn once more to God.

Even Moses warned all of Israel that if they turned away from God and entered into idolatrous worship what the consequences would be, in the scripture Deuteronomy 4: 22ff. To confirm what I am saying, here is the passage for you to read and understand: -
​

Deuteromony 4: 22ff 22 But I (Moses) must die in this land/place, I must not cross over the Jordan; but you shall cross over and possess that good earth. 23 Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God which He made with you and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of anything which the Lord your God has forbidden you. 24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.​

​

25 "When you beget children and grandchildren and have grown old in the land, and act corruptly and make a carved image in the form of anything, and do evil in the sight of the Lord your God to provoke Him to anger, 26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the earth which you cross over the Jordan to possess; you will not prolong your days in it, but you shall utterly desolate it. 27 And the Lord will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the Lord will drive you. 28 And there you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29 But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in distress, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when you turn to the Lord your God and obey His voice 31 (for the Lord your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.​

​

32 "For ask now concerning the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether any great thing like this has happened, or anything like it has been heard. 33 Did any people ever hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as you have heard, and live? 34 Or did God ever try to go and take for Himself a nation from the midst of another nation, by trials, by signs, by wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? 35 To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord Himself is God; there is none other besides Him. 36 Out of heaven He let you hear His voice, that He might instruct you; on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words out of the midst of the fire. 37 And because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them; and He brought you out of Egypt with His Presence, with His mighty power, 38 driving out from before you nations greater and mightier than you, to bring you in, to give you their land as a possession, as it is this day. 39 Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. 40 You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the Lord your God is giving you all for a time."​

If we want things to go well for us "Christians," then we need to bless Israel instead of cursing Israel, which justifies us rejecting that Israel has a very important part to play in these End Times, like you did in your post above.

Be very careful with the gun that has been loaded for you to miss use.

Having faith, is what pleases God and if anything he rewards those who seek after him. Thats the simple gist.

 

[Brakelite]

Did you REALLY... say that Brakelite???

I've noticed many of my Christian brethren only stay in the New Testament, and completely ignorant of the following detail about Lord Jesus' future RETURN on the "day of the Lord", AND... bringing all His faithful saints with Him there to the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem!

Zech 14:1-9
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one.
KJV

It isn't the event I'm speaking against, just the timing. So you believe this...
KJV Revelation 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

takes place at the end of a 1000 years of Jesus' personal rule in the earth, and all that He has built up, all He has established, all the love, devotion, personal worship, witness and testimony of His love for mankind, on top of the sacrifice on Calvary, is all for nothing? Satan is able to deceive the entire planet into rebelling? Again? The nations thereof so easily deceived that they are willing to throw away their eternal life and the blessings of the previous 1000 years? After all that time of knowing Jesus personally, hearing Him speak and seeing Him face to face, the whole world remains unconvinced?

 

[quietthinker]

Did you REALLY... say that Brakelite???

I've noticed many of my Christian brethren only stay in the New Testament, and completely ignorant of the following detail about Lord Jesus' future RETURN on the "day of the Lord", AND... bringing all His faithful saints with Him there to the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem!

Zech 14:1-9
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one.
KJV

The problem Davy, is folk conflate Old and New Testament prophecies re this matter assuming it is talking about the same event.

The Jews did/ do the same thing with the prophecies of the Messiah.....they conflate the first and second coming prophecies (withdistortion and denial) while giving it a purely political spin......one to suit their agenda.

No wonder they missed the central event their Prophets foretold and around which their economy revolved and being a symbol of. Practices such as the morning and evening sacrifice with the slaying of the lamb in the temple; a ritual exercised for centuries as well as the meaning of the various other rituals including the furnishings and lay out in the sanctuary service structure.

I doubt even many who call themselves Christians are able to join these dots well, if at all.

 

[Brakelite]

Having faith, is what pleases God

Having faith is essential, absolutely, but in what? Ultimately, having faith means believing what God has said. Accepting His promises, and believing He is willing and able to accomplish that which He has said.
So. Does it do anyone any good to have faith in stuff God has not said? Let me say that having faith is believing in that which is truth, because believing in someone's, or your own, opinion, is but an exercise in futility.
"They that worship God must worship in Spirit and in Truth."

 

[MatthewG]

It depends on your perspective of what one reads along with anything that may be tradition in the sense of being taught by others.

Like I was taught to think critically and choose for myself, between God and my own relationship with him.

Yes his promises, are reassuring, but im not so sure every promise was made to me or you, it could have been to a different party all together.


Say Job blow believes souls are all obliterated in the end; and they have faith towards God. While i may say your wrong, perhaps your right.

Say Job number 2 believes souls are not; and he has faith towards God, one could say he is wrong while the other man believes he is right.

God loves job blow, and job number 2 both equally.


That is why faith and humbling oneself before God is pleasing done by the willing heart.

Amen.

 

[Jay Ross]

Having faith, is what pleases God and if anything he rewards those who seek after him. Thats the simple gist.

Yes, and at this present time Israel is seeking after God, but until the full fulfilment of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and their Children's children, has run its full course in the fourth age, and the fullness of time with respect to the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, God will not begin to begin gathering Israel to Himself so that He can enter once more into a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession amongst the nations Covenant with Israel once more.

In my response to your post, I demonstrated with scripture that your claim that Israel had been scattered to the four compass points of the earth because they caused Christ to be crucified by the Roman overlords in Jerusalem was false.

Yes, having faith in God is important, but when you misquote scripture and curse Israel with your words, I am not sure that God is drawing you into fellowship with Him when it sounds very much like replacement theology.

 

[Johann]

Yes, and at this present time Israel is seeking after God, but until the full fulfilment of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and their Children's children, has run its full course in the fourth age, and the fullness of time with respect to the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, God will not begin to begin gathering Israel to Himself so that He can enter once more into a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession amongst the nations Covenant with Israel once more.

In my response to your post, I demonstrated with scripture that your claim that Israel had been scattered to the four compass points of the earth because they caused Christ to be crucified by the Roman overlords in Jerusalem was false.

Yes, having faith in God is important, but when you misquote scripture and curse Israel with your words, I am not sure that God is drawing you into fellowship with Him when it sounds very much like replacement theology.

Read this Ross and tell me what you think.

ESCHATOLOGY–Why do Christians Have So Many Dogmatic Interpretations of Revelation?

Eschatology -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

 

[Johann]

The Spirit revealed truths to the OT writers in terms and categories they could understand. However, through progressive revelation the Spirit has expanded these OT eschatological concepts to a universal scope ("the mystery of Christ," cf. Eph. 2:11-3:13). Here are some relevant examples:

1. The city of Jerusalem in the OT is used as a metaphor for the people of God (Zion), but is projected into the NT as a term expressing God's acceptance of all repentant, believing humans (the "new Jerusalem" of Revelation 21-22). The theological expansion of a literal, physical city into the new people of God (believing Jews and Gentiles) is foreshadowed in God's promise to redeem fallen mankind in Gen. 3:15, before there even were any Jews or a Jewish capital city. Even Abraham's call (cf. Gen. 12:1-3) involved the Gentiles (cf. Gen. 12:3; Exod. 19:5).

2. In the OT the enemies of God's people are the surrounding nations of the Ancient Near East, but in the NT they have been expanded to all unbelieving, anti-God, Satanically-inspired people. The battle has moved from a geographical, regional conflict to a worldwide, cosmic conflict (cf. Colossians).

3. The promise of a land which is so integral in the OT (the Patriarchal promises of Genesis, cf. Gen. 12:7; 13:15; 15:7,15,16; 7:8) has now become the whole earth. New Jerusalem comes down to a recreated earth, not the Near East only or exclusively (cf. Revelation 21-22).

4. Some other examples of OT prophetic concepts being expanded are

a. the seed of Abraham is now the spiritually circumcised (cf. Rom. 2:28-29)

b. the covenant people now include Gentiles (cf. Hos. 1:10; 2:23, quoted in Rom. 9:24-26; also Lev. 26:12; Exod. 29:45, quoted in 2 Cor. 6:16-18 and Exod. 19:5; Deut. 14:2, quoted in Titus 2:14)

c. the temple is now Jesus (cf. Matt. 26:61; 27:40; John 2:19-21) and through Him the local church (cf. 1 Cor. 3:16) or the individual believer (cf. 1Cor. 6:19)

d. even Israel and its characteristic descriptive OT phrases now refer to the whole people of God (i.e.,"Israel," cf. Rom. 9:6; Gal. 6:16, i.e.,"kingdom of priests," cf. 1 Pet. 2:5, 9-10; Rev. 1:6)



The prophetic model has been fulfilled, expanded, and is now more inclusive. Jesus and the Apostolic writers do not present the end-time in the same way as the OT prophets (cf. Martin Wyngaarden, The Future of The Kingdom in Prophecy and Fulfillment). Modern interpreters who try to make the OT model literal or normative twist the book of Revelation into a very Jewish book and force meaning into atomized, ambiguous phrases of Jesus and Paul! The NT writers do not negate the OT prophets, but show their ultimate universal implication. There is no organized, logical system to Jesus' or Paul's eschatology. Their purpose is primarily redemptive or pastoral.

However, even within the NT there is tension. There is no clear systemization of eschatological events. In many ways the Revelation surprisingly uses OT allusions in describing the end instead of the teachings of Jesus (cf. Matthew 24; Mark 13)! It follows the literary genre initiated by Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah, but developed during the intertestamental period (Jewish apocalyptic literature). This may have been John's way of linking the Old and New Covenants. It shows the age-old pattern of human rebellion and God's commitment to redemption! But it must be noted that although Revelation uses OT language, persons, and events, it reinterprets them in light of first century Rome (cf. Revelation 17).

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, and at this present time Israel is seeking after God, but until the full fulfilment of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and their Children's children, has run its full course in the fourth age, and the fullness of time with respect to the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, God will not begin to begin gathering Israel to Himself so that He can enter once more into a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession amongst the nations Covenant with Israel once more.

In my response to your post, I demonstrated with scripture that your claim that Israel had been scattered to the four compass points of the earth because they caused Christ to be crucified by the Roman overlords in Jerusalem was false.

Yes, having faith in God is important, but when you misquote scripture and curse Israel with your words, I am not sure that God is drawing you into fellowship with Him when it sounds very much like replacement theology.

Im glad people enjoy the content and find hope and faith in God. May they continue to seek

 

[Davy]

It isn't the event I'm speaking against, just the timing. So you believe this...
KJV Revelation 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

takes place at the end of a 1000 years of Jesus' personal rule in the earth, and all that He has built up, all He has established, all the love, devotion, personal worship, witness and testimony of His love for mankind, on top of the sacrifice on Calvary, is all for nothing? Satan is able to deceive the entire planet into rebelling? Again? The nations thereof so easily deceived that they are willing to throw away their eternal life and the blessings of the previous 1000 years? After all that time of knowing Jesus personally, hearing Him speak and seeing Him face to face, the whole world remains unconvinced?

If you are trying to point to 2 future comings by Christ, that idea is false. There is only 1 future return of Jesus, and He returns to the very spot on earth where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. And it happens to end... the time of "great tribulation", for that is when the "day of the Lord" event is when man's works are burned off this earth by God's consuming fire (2 Peter 3:10).

At that only single future return on the last day of this present world, the "day of the Lord", that... is when Jesus starts His future 1,000 years reign, not before, and not later, but at His coming at the end of this present world. This is what is written. Those other ideas by pre-trib and Amill is NOT written.

 

[Davy]

The problem Davy, is folk conflate Old and New Testament prophecies re this matter assuming it is talking about the same event.

You are being funny, you know that?

Many Old Testament prophecies ARE repeated in the New Testament! So I don't know what idiot put the idea in your head that they don't appear in both. And the New Testament in some places (like Revelation) contains a small detail of future prophecy while the greater... detail is written in the Old Testament prophets (like the future Millennial temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47 which only happens after Christ's future return, and is only hinted at in Revelation 22).

Even the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel is an Old Testament prophecy that Lord Jesus Himself quoted about a specific event for the last days at the end of this world during the time of "great tribulation" (see Matthew 24).

Since you appear to not understand this, I have to say you definitely need a lot... more Bible study for yourself, and to quit listening to men's traditions.

 

[quietthinker]

You are being funny, you know that?

Many Old Testament prophecies ARE repeated in the New Testament! So I don't know what idiot put the idea in your head that they don't appear in both. And the New Testament in some places (like Revelation) contains a small detail of future prophecy while the greater... detail is written in the Old Testament prophets (like the future Millennial temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47 which only happens after Christ's future return, and is only hinted at in Revelation 22).

Even the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel is an Old Testament prophecy that Lord Jesus Himself quoted about a specific event for the last days at the end of this world during the time of "great tribulation" (see Matthew 24).

Since you appear to not understand this, I have to say you definitely need a lot... more Bible study for yourself, and to quit listening to men's traditions.

Oh, I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with your conclusion.
There is a far far more glorious vision than outlined in your view.

However, I will say this, you have not understood what I mean't when I said 'folk conflate Old and New Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah'

 

[Davy]

Oh, I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with your conclusion.
There is a far far more glorious vision than outlined in your view.

However, I will say this, you have not understood what I mean't when I said 'folk conflate Old and New Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah'

Uh... you're being stubborn at your own peril, because I WAS NOT putting forth 'my view'. I can document directly in God's Word what I said, thus it is GOD's VIEW I was proposing to you, not mine.