This world and the wicked are going up in a puff of smoke when Jesus come - thus negating Premil

[WPM]

Avoidance is Scripturally taught to ignore silly circle jerk nonsense. You have been answered repeatedly. Your own lack of comprehension of what is written is on you, not me. Your own lack of understanding what is Scripturally written is not a mystery. Scripture itself notifies me of WHY.

Your problem is: you have no answer to the biblical truth presented, so you go off in protracted rambles full of private interpretation that I doubt anyone reads.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Be Patient.

Isa 9:
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,

That, of course, was written before His first coming. Jesus Himself said that all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him before He ascended to heaven. You just want to ignore that. He rules in the hearts of His followers and nothing on earth can happen without His permission. Your understanding of how He rules is flawed.

 

[Taken]

Your problem is: you have no answer to the biblical truth presented, so you go off in protracted rambles full of private interpretation that I doubt anyone reads.

I have no problem. I disagree with you and I know why. If you don’t know why, that would be your problem.

 

[Taken]

That, of course, was written before His first coming. Jesus Himself said that all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him before He ascended to heaven. You just want to ignore that. He rules in the hearts of His followers and nothing on earth can happen without His permission. Your understanding of how He rules is flawed.

No one objected to all authority being Given Jesus….AND as Scripture Reveals WHEN, WHY, and OVER WHOM that authority applies.

You say He rules OVER “specifically” His followers.

Actually He rules OVER “specifically” Those Converted “IN” Christ.

What has NOT OCCURRED is: ALL upon the face of the Earth ARE His Followers!
AND as scripture Reveals, During Christ Jesus’ 1,000 year reign, THEN SHALL ALL upon the face of the EARTH BE His “Followers”! At the END of Christ Jesus’ reign, “Followers” will betray Jesus and come Against Him to war.

“Followers” CAN STOP FOLLOWING. (Less you forget Judas).

Presently MANY THINGS upon the face of the EARTH occur without His Permission, it’s called FREEWILL of man.

You may have meant to say, Nothing occurs upon the face of the earth, without His Knowledge.

No, my understanding is not flawed.
Yes, I disagree with you.

 

[WPM]

No one objected to all authority being Given Jesus….AND as Scripture Reveals WHEN, WHY, and OVER WHOM that authority applies.

You say He rules OVER “specifically” His followers.

Actually He rules OVER “specifically” Those Converted “IN” Christ.

What has NOT OCCURRED is: ALL upon the face of the Earth ARE His Followers!
AND as scripture Reveals, During Christ Jesus’ 1,000 year reign, THEN SHALL ALL upon the face of the EARTH BE His “Followers”! At the END of Christ Jesus’ reign, “Followers” will betray Jesus and come Against Him to war.

“Followers” CAN STOP FOLLOWING. (Less you forget Judas).

Presently MANY THINGS upon the face of the EARTH occur without His Permission, it’s called FREEWILL of man.

You may have meant to say, Nothing occurs upon the face of the earth, without His Knowledge.

No, my understanding is not flawed.
Yes, I disagree with you.

Where does it say anywhere that the level of influence and authority of a king only extends over loyal subjects? You seem to make it up as you go. That is simply not true. Jesus rules over all creation today. He is indeed Lord. He is God.

 

[WPM]

No one objected to all authority being Given Jesus….AND as Scripture Reveals WHEN, WHY, and OVER WHOM that authority applies.

You say He rules OVER “specifically” His followers.

Actually He rules OVER “specifically” Those Converted “IN” Christ.

What has NOT OCCURRED is: ALL upon the face of the Earth ARE His Followers!
AND as scripture Reveals, During Christ Jesus’ 1,000 year reign, THEN SHALL ALL upon the face of the EARTH BE His “Followers”! At the END of Christ Jesus’ reign, “Followers” will betray Jesus and come Against Him to war.

“Followers” CAN STOP FOLLOWING. (Less you forget Judas).

Presently MANY THINGS upon the face of the EARTH occur without His Permission, it’s called FREEWILL of man.

You may have meant to say, Nothing occurs upon the face of the earth, without His Knowledge.

No, my understanding is not flawed.
Yes, I disagree with you.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Here you have it: “all rule and all authority and power” are “put down” at “Christ's … Coming.” It is that simple, and that clear. Those who take a clear, objective and literal straightforward reading of this text will see that it spells the end of all rebellion. However, this is the opposite to the Premil millennium: which has more wicked and more enemies arising and culminates in the greatest uprising in human history – as the wicked, against the saints of God “as the sand of the sea.”

Paul then reminds us:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26: “For he must reign (present, active infinitive), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final subjugation of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Paul then reinforces this thought:

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 “For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under him. And when all things shall be (hupotasso) subdued (or subordinated or submitted to) unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to), that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Paul, again, repeats the great truth that God “hath put all things under his feet” as He reigns in majestic glory upon high. The reign described here is aorist active indicative, meaning it is ongoing. He also shows, whilst Christ is reigning over His enemies as Lord and God, they will NOT be made His footstool, subdued and put down until the second coming.

The whole focus here is the current reign of Christ upon the heavenly throne that will culminate in the final downfall of all his enemies when he appears. Then we'll his enemies finally be subdued, put down, and made his footstool.

Hebrews 1:2, 3, 2:9 says, “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.”

There it is! He is the supreme power. He is the government. He carries all authority. Whilst new enemies are being born every day, while new wicked regimes continually arise, Christ determines what He allows and what He doesn't. There is nothing that is not under Him. The world is NOT out of control. God has a plan and that plan will be fulfilled, when God sees fit.

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Without a doubt Christ is reigning over His enemies since the resurrection, waiting for their final predetermined put down. Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds. They also circumvent clear New Testament writings that teach Christ is reigning now.

 

[Taken]

Where does it say anywhere that the level of influence and authority of a king only extends over loyal subjects? You seem to make it up as you go. That is simply not true. Jesus rules over all creation today. He is indeed Lord. He is God.

Isa 66:
[1] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne…

John 18:
[36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Zech 14:
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Already suggested you PAY ATTENTION to the Express Words in Scripture.

IS….is now.
IS NOT…is not now.
SHALL BE….is prophecy not YET fulfilled.

You are IN THIS WORLD, which is NOT (YET) the Lords Kingdom.

You are NOT in HEAVEN, WHICH IS the Lords Kingdom and Throne.

You AVOID speaking YOUR own Standing, but rather dance around with accusations Against those whose Beliefs are established IN Scriptural Knowledge.

It is PROPHECY having BEEN MANIFESTED the Son of Man came to Earth, From Heaven, a HUMBLED SERVANT and REVEALED He IS the Word of God AND the Power of God and the LEFT EARTH and Returned to HEAVEN, His Kingdom, His Throne…..

AND PROPHECY He SHALL RETURN TO EARTH, WITH His Power, WITH His Saints, TO CLAIM His Inheritance; His Earthly Land Kingdom, His Earthly Throne, and RULE over all kingdoms OF THIS WORLD, for 1,000 years.

Thereafter, He SHALL CLAIM the ENTIRE HEAVENS and ENTIRE EARTH as HIS KINGDOM and MORTAL LIFE, ON EARTH and MORTAL Nations ON Earth, and MORTAL kingdoms and kings SHALL CEASE. AS well EVIL Spirits ON Earth SHALL CEASE.

Pay attention to Express Scriptural WORDS, Gods ORDER and WAY…..because you are all over the place, out of ORDER, and denying Gods WAY…..and then pretending it is anyones fault, who does not agree with you.

 

[WPM]

Isa 66:
[1] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne…

John 18:
[36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Zech 14:
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Already suggested you PAY ATTENTION to the Express Words in Scripture.

IS….is now.
IS NOT…is not now.
SHALL BE….is prophecy not YET fulfilled.

You are IN THIS WORLD, which is NOT (YET) the Lords Kingdom.

You are NOT in HEAVEN, WHICH IS the Lords Kingdom and Throne.

You AVOID speaking YOUR own Standing, but rather dance around with accusations Against those whose Beliefs are established IN Scriptural Knowledge.

It is PROPHECY having BEEN MANIFESTED the Son of Man came to Earth, From Heaven, a HUMBLED SERVANT and REVEALED He IS the Word of God AND the Power of God and the LEFT EARTH and Returned to HEAVEN, His Kingdom, His Throne…..

AND PROPHECY He SHALL RETURN TO EARTH, WITH His Power, WITH His Saints, TO CLAIM His Inheritance; His Earthly Land Kingdom, His Earthly Throne, and RULE over all kingdoms OF THIS WORLD, for 1,000 years.

Thereafter, He SHALL CLAIM the ENTIRE HEAVENS and ENTIRE EARTH as HIS KINGDOM and MORTAL LIFE, ON EARTH and MORTAL Nations ON Earth, and MORTAL kingdoms and kings SHALL CEASE. AS well EVIL Spirits ON Earth SHALL CEASE.

Pay attention to Express Scriptural WORDS, Gods ORDER and WAY…..because you are all over the place, out of ORDER, and denying Gods WAY…..and then pretending it is anyones fault, who does not agree with you.

Deal with post #186 which exposes your thesis. Zechariah 14 has been fulfilled since the First Advent.

 

[Taken]

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Here you have it: “all rule and all authority and power” are “put down” at “Christ's … Coming.” It is that simple, and that clear. Those who take a clear, objective and literal straightforward reading of this text will see that it spells the end of all rebellion. However, this is the opposite to the Premil millennium: which has more wicked and more enemies arising and culminates in the greatest uprising in human history – as the wicked, against the saints of God “as the sand of the sea.”

Paul then reminds us:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26: “For he must reign (present, active infinitive), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final subjugation of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Paul then reinforces this thought:

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 “For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under him. And when all things shall be (hupotasso) subdued (or subordinated or submitted to) unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to), that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Paul, again, repeats the great truth that God “hath put all things under his feet” as He reigns in majestic glory upon high. The reign described here is aorist active indicative, meaning it is ongoing. He also shows, whilst Christ is reigning over His enemies as Lord and God, they will NOT be made His footstool, subdued and put down until the second coming.

The whole focus here is the current reign of Christ upon the heavenly throne that will culminate in the final downfall of all his enemies when he appears. Then we'll his enemies finally be subdued, put down, and made his footstool.

Hebrews 1:2, 3, 2:9 says, “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.”

There it is! He is the supreme power. He is the government. He carries all authority. Whilst new enemies are being born every day, while new wicked regimes continually arise, Christ determines what He allows and what He doesn't. There is nothing that is not under Him. The world is NOT out of control. God has a plan and that plan will be fulfilled, when God sees fit.

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Without a doubt Christ is reigning over His enemies since the resurrection, waiting for their final predetermined put down. Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds. They also circumvent clear New Testament writings that teach Christ is reigning now.

Shall is future.
You are trying to teach what has not come to pass, Has come to pass….

Christ Jesus is NOT NOW reigning IN HIS EARTHY KINGDOM….WITH His Saints.

Christ Jesus “IS” “Spiritually With and In” His Church, which “IS” “withIN” specific men.

Christs CHURCH, is Gods Temple….NOT His Kingdom!

 

[Taken]

Deal with post #186 which exposes your thesis. Zechariah 14 has been fulfilled since the First Advent.

No. I have played your game long enough….answering your questions…
when are YOU GOING to espouse your OWN STANDING “FOR” your OWN beliefs?




Zach 14: (for example as you say already has been fulfilled)

WHEN exactly….have Living waters flowed out of Jerusalem?

[8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

When exactly Was the LORD’s KINGDOM ON EARTH, and the LORD Sitting in His THRONE ON EARTH?

[10] All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
[11] And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

When exactly did Jerusalem become Safely inhabitated?

[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth

When exactly did the LORD smite ALL the people who have fought AGAINST Jerusalem?

 

[WPM]

Shall is future.
You are trying to teach what has not come to pass, Has come to pass….

Christ Jesus is NOT NOW reigning IN HIS EARTHY KINGDOM….WITH His Saints.

Christ Jesus “IS” “Spiritually With and In” His Church, which “IS” “withIN” specific men.

Christs CHURCH, is Gods Temple….NOT His Kingdom!

You are voicing your own mistaken opinions. Do you think if you repeat them enough, they will suddenly become true? That is not the way it works. Scriptures overrides your vain and faulty opinions.

There is no future earthly kingdom on this corrupt earth. It is a heavenly reign in a heavenly kingdom. Nowhere in Rev 20 does it show Jesus on earth. That is your own faulty invention.

 

[WPM]

No. I have played your game long enough….answering your questions…
when are YOU GOING to espouse your OWN STANDING “FOR” your OWN beliefs?




Zach 14: (for example as you say already has been fulfilled)

WHEN exactly….have Living waters flowed out of Jerusalem?

[8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

When exactly Was the LORD’s KINGDOM ON EARTH, and the LORD Sitting in His THRONE ON EARTH?

[10] All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
[11] And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

When exactly did Jerusalem become Safely inhabitated?

[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth

When exactly did the LORD smite ALL the people who have fought AGAINST Jerusalem?

You might not have received the living water that comes with the kingdom but many of us have.

Zechariah 14:6-9 says, in keeping with the theme of the previous chapters, saying, “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one”

Luke 23:44-46 says, “it was about the sixth hour (midday), and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour (3pm). And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”

Whilst there was natural and spiritual darkness over Jerusalem when Christ was crucified, this all changed in the evening. With the renting of the veil the light broke through. Natural and spiritual light did indeed shine forth and has been graciously ever since. Christ is the “light of the world” (John 8:12, 9:5). Through His death He became an everlasting light to the Gentiles (Isaiah 42:6, 60:20).

The living water that flowed out from Christ at the cross secured the redemption of the saints of all time, whether in the Old Testament (the former sea) or in the New Testament (the hinder sea). The Bible says, in 2 Corinthians 5:18-21, “all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation ... For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

Zechariah 14:8 is referring to the time when redemption was finally and eternally secured for the redeemed. It is speaking of the eternal salvation that sprang forth from the cross. We must remember, the elect in the Old Testament were always looking forward to the cross, whereas, we today in the New Testament are looking back to the finished work.

Colossians 1:20-22 confirms: "having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight."

This is talking about the Lord's first advent and the peace He brought to Jerusalem. The inhabitants that entered the New Jerusalem by faith experienced the peace of God. In the kingdom of God there are no wars, destruction and death - just eternal life. Thus the statement: “And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.”

The Hebrew word "former" illustrating the Jews being the old or first of the sea, and the word "hinder" being those who come after or behind. In other words, the last. The living waters go out to all the world, Jew and Gentile, and this seems also to be illustrated in the context of verse following.

Even though it has a spiritual application, Christ – the living water – visited the Mount of Olives in person many times throughout His earthly ministry, thus fulfilling any peculiar hyper-literalist interpretation of this figurative prophecy in Zechariah 14 and many other similar Old Testament prophecies. In short, it is a remarkable symbolic prophetic account of the nature and purpose of the earthly Messianic ministry of the Lord at His first coming.

Premillennialists, wrongly try to divorce the last chapter of Zechariah – Ch. 14 – from the consistent pattern, subject and continuity of chapters 1-13 of the book in order to support their millennial doctrine. They unilaterally, and without warrant, transfer chapter 14 to a notional period on earth following the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jeremiah 17:13 says of Christ, “O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.”

Even though it has a spiritual application, Christ – the living water – visited the Mount of Olives in person many times throughout His earthly ministry, thus fulfilling any peculiar hyper-literalist interpretation of this figurative prophecy in Zechariah 14 and many other similar Old Testament prophecies.

Jesus said, whilst teaching in His earthly ministry, in John 7:37-39, perfectly fulfilling the symbolic composition of Zechariah 14, “If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

Christ is the Temple from which the waters of the Holy Spirit flow.

John 4:9-10 shows the woman of Samaria’s encounter with Christ, after He had asked her for a drink. The Lord told her, “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water…whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Support for this overall belief is found in the Prophet Zechariah’s continual use of the term “in that day.” The continual use of this statement throughout the whole book reveals its unity and shows how it looked forward to “that day” when the Messiah would finally appear. Whilst men love to arbitrarily decapitate this book in order to support their flawed doctrines; the Holy Spirit, which inspired it, ordained that this consistent theme AND unity could be fully recognized by all.

Christ is the Temple from which the waters of the Holy Spirit flow.

The reference to the “river” flowing to “former and … hinder sea” I believe symbolically refers to the Jew and the Gentile.

 

[robert derrick]

What's pseudo-mil?

Neither amil nor millennialist.

You make up your own spirit-only prophecy for one.

Anyone thinking to have any rule of their own on earth at this time, are not crucified fully to Christ, nor laid down their life, nor taken up their cross.

No apostle teaches any Christian in the gospel of the cross, ruling in this life. Jesus is the only Head and Prince on earth. Not until His return, will the resurrected saints then be made co-rulers over nations with Him.

Jesus ruled no one with the cross at His first coming, neither do we. We are now kings and priest in service to the Lord, not kings and priests ruling with Him. We have to serve and endure unto the end, to be resurrected with ruling authority over nations.

Rodes of iron are not until His coming again.

Scripture teaches the Millennium reign of Jesus and the saints takes place in heaven after He comes in glory and resurrects the righteous (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV; John 14:2-3 KJV)

Only on this earth and the new earth. Never in heaven. There is no Scripture saying so.

Nor any Scripture of the apostles saying we are ruling anything now, especially not our own lives on earth.

...while the wicked drop dead in their tracks "at the brightness of His coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJV).

The wicked around Judea gathered to make war, yes.

But not them upon whom He pours His Spirit of grace, beginning at Jerusalem.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This is His second coming seen by every eye. God always has proof Scripture to end every argument of doctrine and prophecy. And it's usually a well-known one, that gets lost in the mix of other Scriptures.

World genocide by the Lord at His coming again, is false. That is the prophetic pathetic hope of a false christ.

How do we know this happens now and not later? Because the Little Horn is still running his mouth, but at the Second Coming the Little Horn (Beast) is cast into the Lake of Fire.

Not the last one before His coming. Many antichrists have been, and still are running their mouths, to teach false doctrine and prophecy false comings.

The three stages of the Judgment are the Investigative, Verdict, and Execution and you're confusing Investigative with Execution.

You insert execution before judgement.

Uh...that's not what Revelation 22:11 KJV says...

So long as the God is the Lamb, then the Lamb is the Saviour for all the world. Such as the saved nations on the new earth, and them not allowed through the gates to eat of healing leaves.

I think I've more than made the case for why I'm right and you're dead wrong. And I've done so in humility - it's YOU who I've seen to be arrogant, unkind, rude, disrespectful in this and other replies to other members - traits that plainly show "what spirit ye are of".

If you don't like disagreement, then don't engage others.

You obviously take things too personal.

The only destruction I claim will be handed down from God is that which the Bible claims: destruction of the wicked via Lake of Fire

True.

where they will pass out of existence and trouble the universe no more.

Oblivion is the wishful lie of those, that do not ensure their election to never fall unto the end of this life, and so receive the reward of inheriting the kingdom of God forever.

Look, we can go all the way back to the beginning of the prophetic timeline, to Daniel 1, and I'll show you EXACTLY where you go off course in your flawed eschatology and hermeneutics. Anytime, anyplace.

You have one simple task here. To either agree Jesus will pour out His Spirit of grace with His coming again, after the destruction at Armageddon, or you can reject it and say He won't.

Since He does so, He is also coming to save and not just to condemn, even as the first time. John 3 is saying the Lord never comes to the earth just to condemn the world. He can do that from heaven anytime He wanted, without wasting time coming to earth itself.

 

[Taken]

Here you have it: “all rule and all authority and power” are “put down” at “Christ's … Coming.”



1 Corinthians 15:25-26: “For he must reign (present, active infinitive), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final subjugation of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

You contradict YOURSELF….
Reigning NOW….oh wait…AT Christ’s coming.

Christ has NOT returned YET…duh!

There is no future earthly kingdom on this corrupt earth. It is a heavenly reign in a heavenly kingdom. Nowhere in Rev 20 does it show Jesus on earth. That is your own faulty invention.

Another Contradiction.

No future earthly kingdom….but yet AT Christ’s Second coming…

Matt 6:
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

You pretending EARTH not being mentioned in Rev 20 is irrelevant…..The Lord God RULING ON EARTH is EVIDENT by other Scriptures.

You pretending ANYONE has suggested The Lord God shall RULE over a corrupt EARTH is irrelevant…..and your OWN made up thoughts…
Scripture reveals Christ the Lord shall RULE, With His Saints, FROM His Earthy Kingdom, From His Earthly Throne; over Nations of mortal men, with mortal kings….for 1,000 years….that Which ALL …… BELIEVE !!
How YOU CONCLUDE that is CORRUPT….is via your own imagination, and only YOU saying that.

You obviously MISS (by your own inability to STAY within Gods ORDER and WAY) important Scriptural Lessons….

The Lord IS NOT CHANGING Carnal MINDS.
The Lord IS CHANGING HEARTS of willing men….who thus Become SAINTS.
AND NOT CHANGING HEARTS of unwilling men!
The Lord IS WITH men, who are IN Jesus, (who are NOT Converted IN Christ.)
The Lord WILL (from position sitting on a Cloud for ALL men to SEE….SEPARATE….REAP….KILL NON-Believers….

Then the Lord WILL return to Earth, With His Saints, Remove Satan from the face of the Earth, Claim His Kingdom, His Throne, AND RULE over mortal Nations >>>>OF BELIEVERS IN Jesus>>>>FOR 1,000 years.

Satan will be LOOSED, return to Earth, INFLUENCE BELIEVERS “IN” Jesus, that ALL the Nations of Mortal men COME AGAINST Christ Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom, and ARE KILLED….And THEREAFTER the WHOLE HEAVENS, the WHOLE EARTH, shall be Gods KINGDOM, Gods THRONE, and ALL the occupants SHALL BE FAITHFUL FOREVER to the Lord God Almighty.

I speak my own words…My words parallel and are verified according to Gods ORDER and WAY.

God has and is DIVIDING men and SHALL continue DIVIDING….and then SEPARATING the DIVIDED….with and without Him….with and without Jesus….and in and not in Christ.

YOU seem utterly unaware, BELIEF is a mans FREEWILL, to Believe IN God, IN Jesus as long as he desires, and man has the FREEWILL to STOP Believing IN God, IN Jesus at any time the man desires….
NOT SO, once a man Heartfully Commits to:
CHRIST!

A man IN CHRIST, has pledged and given his life unto DEATH….and can NO LONGER STOP BELIEVING IN Christ the Lord God….
DEAD BODY’S KNOW NOTHING, think nothing, confess nothing!
THEY ARE expressly belonging to ONLY the Lord God Almighty, FOREVER!

DID you NOT LEARN, TO BE diligent, Learn the Knowledge in Scripture, test yourself that you Believe it BE TRUE, BE sure….BEFORE YOU MAKE A COMMITMENT TO CHRIST….BECAUSE IT IS A FOREVER COMMITMENT?

DID you NOT LEARN, God IS full of GRACE? God is JUST? By ALL of Gods ORDER and WAY He provides every conceivable OPTION for ALL men to hear, learn, test, freely choose to BE WITH OR WITHOUT HIM….for awhile…..or for forever?

DID you NOT LEARN Human men that BECOME transformed SHALL LIVE FOREVER….ON EARTH. THEY DO NOT GO UP TO HEAVEN, HEAVEN COMES TO EARTH!

DO YOU THNIK, a man who chooses, and does ALL the Lord God REQUIRES to BE WITH HIM FOREVER…..IS THEN the TARGET OF GODS WRATH? Because that IS what you teach.

 

[WPM]

You contradict YOURSELF….
Reigning NOW….oh wait…AT Christ’s coming.

Christ has NOT returned YET…duh!


Another Contradiction.

No future earthly kingdom….but yet AT Christ’s Second coming…

Matt 6:
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

You pretending EARTH not being mentioned in Rev 20 is irrelevant…..The Lord God RULING ON EARTH is EVIDENT by other Scriptures.

You pretending ANYONE has suggested The Lord God shall RULE over a corrupt EARTH is irrelevant…..and your OWN made up thoughts…
Scripture reveals Christ the Lord shall RULE, With His Saints, FROM His Earthy Kingdom, From His Earthly Throne; over Nations of mortal men, with mortal kings….for 1,000 years….that Which ALL …… BELIEVE !!
How YOU CONCLUDE that is CORRUPT….is via your own imagination, and only YOU saying that.

You obviously MISS (by your own inability to STAY within Gods ORDER and WAY) important Scriptural Lessons….

The Lord IS NOT CHANGING Carnal MINDS.
The Lord IS CHANGING HEARTS of willing men….who thus Become SAINTS.
AND NOT CHANGING HEARTS of unwilling men!
The Lord IS WITH men, who are IN Jesus, (who are NOT Converted IN Christ.)
The Lord WILL (from position sitting on a Cloud for ALL men to SEE….SEPARATE….REAP….KILL NON-Believers….

Then the Lord WILL return to Earth, With His Saints, Remove Satan from the face of the Earth, Claim His Kingdom, His Throne, AND RULE over mortal Nations >>>>OF BELIEVERS IN Jesus>>>>FOR 1,000 years.

Satan will be LOOSED, return to Earth, INFLUENCE BELIEVERS “IN” Jesus, that ALL the Nations of Mortal men COME AGAINST Christ Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom, and ARE KILLED….And THEREAFTER the WHOLE HEAVENS, the WHOLE EARTH, shall be Gods KINGDOM, Gods THRONE, and ALL the occupants SHALL BE FAITHFUL FOREVER to the Lord God Almighty.

I speak my own words…My words parallel and are verified according to Gods ORDER and WAY.

God has and is DIVIDING men and SHALL continue DIVIDING….and then SEPARATING the DIVIDED….with and without Him….with and without Jesus….and in and not in Christ.

YOU seem utterly unaware, BELIEF is a mans FREEWILL, to Believe IN God, IN Jesus as long as he desires, and man has the FREEWILL to STOP Believing IN God, IN Jesus at any time the man desires….
NOT SO, once a man Heartfully Commits to:
CHRIST!

A man IN CHRIST, has pledged and given his life unto DEATH….and can NO LONGER STOP BELIEVING IN Christ the Lord God….
DEAD BODY’S KNOW NOTHING, think nothing, confess nothing!
THEY ARE expressly belonging to ONLY the Lord God Almighty, FOREVER!

DID you NOT LEARN, TO BE diligent, Learn the Knowledge in Scripture, test yourself that you Believe it BE TRUE, BE sure….BEFORE YOU MAKE A COMMITMENT TO CHRIST….BECAUSE IT IS A FOREVER COMMITMENT?

DID you NOT LEARN, God IS full of GRACE? God is JUST? By ALL of Gods ORDER and WAY He provides every conceivable OPTION for ALL men to hear, learn, test, freely choose to BE WITH OR WITHOUT HIM….for awhile…..or for forever?

DID you NOT LEARN Human men that BECOME transformed SHALL LIVE FOREVER….ON EARTH. THEY DO NOT GO UP TO HEAVEN, HEAVEN COMES TO EARTH!

DO YOU THNIK, a man who chooses, and does ALL the Lord God REQUIRES to BE WITH HIM FOREVER…..IS THEN the TARGET OF GODS WRATH? Because that IS what you teach.

Stop avoiding. Multiple passages I quoted are ducked around and ignored. This is what you have to do to sustain your error.

 

[Taken]

Stop avoiding. Multiple passages I quoted are ducked around and ignored. This is what you have to do to sustain your error.

Seeing HOW YOU DO NOT have the ability to state your own Standing…..

What about the “multiple passages you quoted” ?
You can quote the entire Bible, what about it?
I have already stated on NUMEROUS occasions, I BELIEVE ALL SCRIPTURE IS TRUE….

So, “IDENTIFY” a specific topic… QUOTE “A” Scripture that is relevant to the topic….and “STATE” in your own words why that APPLIES TO YOU…..
It is OBVIOUS Scriptures that APPLY to ME, do NOT APPLY to you, or every one else.

 

[WPM]

Seeing HOW YOU DO NOT have the ability to state your own Standing…..

What about the “multiple passages you quoted” ?
You can quote the entire Bible, what about it?
I have already stated on NUMEROUS occasions, I BELIEVE ALL SCRIPTURE IS TRUE….

So, “IDENTIFY” a specific topic… QUOTE “A” Scripture that is relevant to the topic….and “STATE” in your own words why that APPLIES TO YOU…..
It is OBVIOUS Scriptures that APPLY to ME, do NOT APPLY to you, or every one else.

I refer you back to my last post.

 

[robert derrick]

So, you no longer relate Isaiah 66:22-24 to some supposed millennium after the second coming?

Never did.

 

[robert derrick]

Did you even read my post? You quoted just one sentence from it and didn't address anything else I said. Why not?

As I said, I do endless round and round, but only answer each point once or twice.

If you come up with anything new, then I'll be glad to look at it.

You say Peter only speaks of the end of this world, which you say is 1,000+ years after Christ's return. Then please explain why he said what he did in verses 11 and 12 here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Peter was addressing his readers in the first century along with anyone else who would read it after that. Agree? And he told his readers that they "ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming". Why would he say this to his readers, including you and me, if the fiery destruction he described can't possibly happen in our lifetimes? In your view, the only ones who would need to concern themselves with living holy and godly lives as they "look forward to the day of God and speed its coming" would be people who are alive 1,000+ years after Christ's return.

So, you are basically saying that all of those who read Peter's warning up until Christ's return and 1,000 years afterward have no need to heed his warning about living holy and godly lives while waiting for the day of the Lord to come since it can't possibly apply to anyone until 1,000+ years after His return. Yet, that is not the impression Peter is giving in that passage at all. Instead, he gives the impression that all believers who read his words there should heed his warning about living holy and godly lives while looking forward to the day of the Lord. And the reason why that is the case is because it has been possible for the day of the Lord to arrive ever since he wrote those words since no one knows when that day will come.

Also, in verse 13, Peter said that we look forward to a new heaven and new earth in accordance with the fulfillment of "his promise", which is the promise of His second coming (see 2 Peter 3:3-4). But, you and other Premils are looking forward to an earthly millennial kingdom in accordance with the fulfillment of the promise of His second coming instead.

Already addressed all this once or twice.

You just keep regurgitating old stuff, because you like to hear yourself type.

 

[WPM]

Never did.

Is any of Isaiah 65 related to your so-called future millennium?