So you don't follow the examples of the Apostles who would strive to correct people if they were misunderstanding the Gospel that the Apostles preached? That doesn't seem like the correct Christian attitude!
Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.
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Hmm, eternal death where nobody ever dies.
Some people will believe any old nonsense!
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Ironic indeed! Have you read the NWT?
Jesus said: NTW 'they will be tormented day and night forever and ever'.
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Keiw
Well-Known Member
symbolism--That symbolism is the following--- As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed in miss each new day, miss each new day of Gods love, it NEVER ends--likened to be an eternal suffering. Why? Because those traded 70-100 years of an unrepented life and threw away trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years in perfect health, never without, joyful everyday, not aging like now. It surely is like an eternal suffering.
"Symbolism", one of Kingdom Hall's favorite words, when attacking the Bible!
Basic Kingdom Hall doctrine : the Bible is wrong. Kingdom Hall is right.
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I've been debating JW's for years. Whenever Kingdom Hall doesn't believe the Bible it's "symbolic". And then they spew a smokescreen to distract from what God said. It's a Satanic attack pattern on the Bible. Their own Bible says Kingdom Hall is deceptive.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Here once again, let me introduce you to the true living God--Deut 32:4 All of Gods ways are justice--Do you know what justice is? God shared with all what real justice is-An eye for an eye= perfect balance on his justice scales--So for 70-100 years of an unrepented life, God could not punish one for trillions x trillions x trillions of years of never ending suffering. Only a sadist would. God is love, merciful.
Deut 30:19--God set before all-LIFE or DEATH)--both will be everlasting.
The bible does not contradict itself. twisting teachings does.
I'm not interested in your Kingdom Hall smokescreen. My God is Jesus.
Titus 3
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
How many times have other believers admonished you about the Trinity or Godhead?
How many times have other believers admonished you about how Jesus is God?
Just looking through some of the threads, I noticed you had been admonished by other believers several times on these truths in Scripture, dear sir.
We cannot worship false gods and be saved.
It's heretical to deny the Trinity and/or Jesus is God.
Keeping this in mind, then please read Titus 3:10.
I believe God's word, not men's words. The Trinity was made up by men hundreds of years after the Apostles died. The Apostles did not teach the Trinity, and that is very clear from the Bible. According to the Apostles it is heretical to believe in the Trinity.
That verse can be applied to anyone who believes in the Trinity. As Jude wrote (1:3), "I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints". Nothing should be added or removed to the faith that Jesus and the Apostles taught. The Trinity was a later addition.
And how many times have those people ignored the clear plain truth that the Apostle Paul taught? - 1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):
(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
And what Jesus taught - John 17 (WEB):
(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;
(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
and John 20:17 (WEB):
(17) Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
I don't ignore or deny those verses - I believe them.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Well, I am not here to debate the truth of the "Trinity" (Godhead), as Scripture teaches.
If you want to learn more beyond what you think you know, check out this multi-part video series on the defense of 1 John 5:7. It's a scholarly discussion that is really informative.
Also, 1 John 5:7 is confirmed by Biblical Numerics, as well.
Here is a YouTube video:
Also, Brandon Peterson's biblical numerics videos are really good. He touches upon the defense of the Trinity in his biblical numeric studies on this topic.
I also make a defense for the Trinity or Godhead here:
Defending the Godhead (Trinity) & the Divine Nature of Christ
There are people who don't understand the Godhead (Trinity). It's not three gods in one God. It's one God who co-exists as three distinct persons (yet not separated). The Godhead (Trinity): The Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5). Yet, the...
www.christianityboard.com
I explain Jesus saying, "My God" here:
Does God have a God? Explaining John 20:17 in Defense of the Trinity.
"Jesus saith unto her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."" (John 20:17). Is Jesus (Who is God) really saying He has a God? In other words, does God have a God...
www.christianforums.com
Again, I am just telling you why you are incorrect in your previous statement about my not striving to talk with you or those who deny the Trinity or Godhead. Most of you have been admonished or rebuked with Scripture and history. Most do not know that there is a solecism in the text if 1 John 5:7 is removed. Even the world's top foremost Greek expert basically says there is a hole in the grammar of the removal of 1 John 5:7. One of the early church writers talked about how the gnostics removed 1 John 5:7.
The King James Bible reigned supreme for hundreds of years.
It was only until Westcott and Hort (who were into "the occult," Catholicism, etcetera.) and who had Unitarians on their team of revisers who decided to dethrone the KJB with their NT Greek Critical Text (Which later was translated into English as the RV, ASV). Today, the Nestle and Aland NT Greek text (Supervised by the Vatican - see the 27th edition) basing their work heavily on Westcott and Hort also pushes how 1 John 5:7 is not in our Bible. Note: Yes, the Catholics believe in the Trinity, but their goal is to ultimately get you to believe the scholar or priest over Scripture (Seeing they are against the Bible Alone position). All Modern bibles are based on the Nestle and Aland (NT). Modern Bibles are corrupted in many places on a doctrinal level (subtly).
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So if you don't want to debate the Trinity then why have you brought up 1 John 5:7 and referred to two of your posts on defending the Trinity? And you posted the same post to an old thread that's been dormant for nearly a year, replying to a post I made about 1.5 years ago? (Is Jesus God Incarnate?) You sure are trying hard to avoid debating the subject!
Eh? I don't see anything in what you posted as referring to why you don't want to talk with anyone who disagrees with your belief in the Trinity.
I suspect you don't want to talk about it because you can't argue against the words of Jesus and Paul in:
1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):
(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
Ephesians 1:2-3 (WEB):
(2) Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ;
John 17 (WEB):
(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;
(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
Revelation 3:12 (WEB):
(12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
Concerning 1 John 5:7 the Cambridge Bible notes says:
For there are three that bear record in heaven] If there is one thing that is certain in textual criticism, it is that this famous passage is not genuine. The Revisers have only performed an imperative duty in excluding it from both text and margin. External and internal evidence are alike overwhelmingly against the passage. A summary of both will be found in Appendix D. But there are three facts, which every one should know, and which alone are enough to shew that the words are an interpolation. (1) They are not found in a single Greek MS. earlier than the fourteenth century. (2) Not one of the Greek or Latin Fathers who conducted the controversies about the doctrine of the Trinity in the third, fourth, and first half of the fifth centuries ever quotes the words. (3) The words occur first towards the end of the fifth century in Latin, and are found in no other language until the fourteenth century. The only words which are genuine in this verse are, For there are three that bear record, or more accurately, For those who bear witness are three: ‘three’ is the predicate; for ‘witness’ see on 1Jn_1:2.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Jude 1:7
“Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”
An example is something that we can witness and see. Today, we can visit the place of Sodom and Gomorrah and see its destruction by eternal fire that came down from Heaven.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
While that is most likely so (Seeing I believe in a literal hell), that does not mean this verse is saying that. It is clearly referencing the event when the eternal fire came down from out of Heaven and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. That is the EXAMPLE. An example is something you can see.
To give you an illustration of this:
If I wanted to give you an example of a cat, I would show you a picture or video of a cat.
Better yet, if I could, I would present to you an actual cat for you to observe in real time.
How about the unicorn? The King James Bible talks about the unicorn. Can I give you an example of the biblical unicorn? No. People have made educated guesses about it, but there is no 100% confirmed hardcore proof of the biblical unicorn. I cannot show you its bones or a picture of the unicorn. I cannot show you a video of the biblical unicorn. Therefore, the unicorn cannot be an example I can point out to you in the real world.
Sodom and Gomorrah is a place you can visit today. Many Christians have visited this place, which is a place of destruction. Christians have recorded videos of this place documenting it. It is an EXAMPLE to those who live ungodly (Including self professing Christians).
theJW
Member
Wow, more heretics. Great, just what this forum needs…
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
that looks like the love child of this all incluisive faith merging , false religoin merging , fake love
co exist , finding common ground junk .
WHICH i might add , EVERY denomination is now under to some degree . ITS mother be the harlot
and its pappy the devil . but boy can it holler lets find common ground and love love love all day long .
But what it wont do is corrrect sins and errors . and what it will do is offer up a man pleasing false hope
that gives the world a false love that offers up a false salvation .
AKA , it gives them the desires of their own lustful hearts while promising them salvation .
SOMETHING GOD NOR CHRIST WOULD EVER HAVE DONE .
Yes, Jesus went to paradise in His death, same place He promised the thief on the cross, that they would be with each other in paradise when they died. That was Abraham's bosom a part of sheol, hades, hell, the abode of all the dead who died. Those of the Old Covenant times who died whom God declared righteous went to the good part in death to receive good things, while the wicked at their deaths went to eternal flames and torments and remain there to this day.
Paradise in sheol, was caught up to God in heaven when Christ ascended, leading the captivity (those in that place of the dead who belonged to God as His redeemed possession) captive and he gave gifts to men, the pouring out of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit was not yet given until Christ ascended to the right hand of God.
Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Ephesians 4
8 Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [a]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you [f]have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having [g]loosed the [h]pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
as the KJV says it v27, HELL
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
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