How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

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VictoryinJesus

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Putting on new man and putting off the old man is not a literal thing, but is only allegorically depicting a principle...it has to do with what one is yielding to and walking in, either walking in the flesh or walking in the spirit....which means walking in the righteousness of Christ, which we can only do because He has given it to us a gift. Yielding our members to righteousness unto holiness and no longer to sin unto iniquity. Mortifying the deeds of the flesh BY THE SPIRIT is another way Paul explained the same thing.
This I don’t get. As far as doctrines or theologies go, one thing that ruffles peoples feathers the quickest is suggest it isn’t a literal kingdom with a white bearded man sitting upon a gaudy throne, ruling with a rod in his hand. Eyes will bulge if you ever question the literal-ness of it, but here it is okay to say it isn’t literal. When it may be more real and tangible than living a lie. Because to me that is what is being said: stop pretending and deceiving yourself, face some truth. How much more literal can it be?
 
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Episkopos

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What the calling means to me. I’m paraphrasing all of it because I struggle to get a point across. To me it is something that can not be faked. No way around it. It may be long and maybe I am wrong, but to me this is what He keeps saying needs to happen which to me seems like a whole new height of impossible. Entering in “through a veil” into the Holiest place. To me that is what epi keeps saying about entering in through that veil (that outer man); seeking after the inner man (the Holiest of Holy). Maybe I misunderstood epi but he does speak of the inner man.

Yes....we are enslaved, entombed within the outer man until we are crucified to be liberated into resurrection life in the inner man.

Now many here will make that a common thing...claiming to "have it all" already and reducing the high calling to a human effort of slow "improvement" over many years. But this flies in the face of the gift of life....that is by grace through faith.

The irony is that they are claiming to be saved by grace while they are trying to attain to it with their efforts...and NEVER getting there. Whereas an instant grace gives one the very holiness of God.

There are two ways we can go....one is to be present with the Lord and the other absent. But in either case we are to be humble and fearing...so that we can AT LEAST be acceptable to God (if not pleasing).

In building a human religious institution, people have organized God out of it.
To me it helps explain better “loss of our own image” for the sake of “gaining His.” As brilliant and sufficient as man thinks he is, especially at manipulating what is said to skirt around any “by a New and Living Way” : there is no skirting around it. I mean Only God can enter in through the outer man going right for the New inner man. That is it. Only God can do the impossible for example when they asked Him “who then can be saved” in regards to the rich man. His response was a clear “with men it is impossible. But all things are possible with God.”

Amen.
This may come off as crazy. Is it fictional? A sit back and do nothing kind of Faith? that is not what I’m hearing at all but a call to “a New and Living Way”
“I have given them a Land” even “entered in before them”… “enter in”

to me it says something so hopeful if we would consider it. But then again, we probably won’t because it will require “loss of our own image” to “gain His likeness”. If it contradicts in any way our tightly gripped beliefs, we are not willing to let go of them. I can’t say it enough…that to me…there is no way around it where even He said: the entering in to the Kingdom of God is through much suffering.
Yes....the loss of all things...to gain...everything.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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What the calling means to me. I’m paraphrasing all of it because I struggle to get a point across. To me it is something that can not be faked. No way around it. It may be long and maybe I am wrong, but to me this is what He keeps saying needs to happen which to me seems like a whole new height of impossible. Entering in “through a veil” into the Holiest place. To me that is what epi keeps saying about entering in through that veil (that outer man); seeking after the inner man (the Holiest of Holy). Maybe I misunderstood epi but he does speak of the inner man.

To me it helps explain better “loss of our own image” for the sake of “gaining His.” As brilliant and sufficient as man thinks he is, especially at manipulating what is said to skirt around any “by a New and Living Way” : there is no skirting around it. I mean Only God can enter in through the outer man going right for the New inner man. That is it. Only God can do the impossible for example when they asked Him “who then can be saved” in regards to the rich man. His response was a clear “with men it is impossible. But all things are possible with God.”

This may come off as crazy. Is it fictional? A sit back and do nothing kind of Faith? that is not what I’m hearing at all but a call to “a New and Living Way”
“I have given them a Land” even “entered in before them”… “enter in”

to me it says something so hopeful if we would consider it. But then again, we probably won’t because it will require “loss of our own image” to “gain His likeness”. If it contradicts in any way our tightly gripped beliefs, we are not willing to let go of them. I can’t say it enough…that to me…there is no way around it where even He said: the entering in to the Kingdom of God is through much suffering.
Yes, Enter in..

How do we enter in though?
 

Eternally Grateful

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Yes....we are enslaved, entombed within the outer man until we are crucified to be liberated into resurrection life in the inner man.

Now many here will make that a common thing...claiming to "have it all" already and reducing the high calling to a human effort of slow "improvement" over many years. But this flies in the face of the gift of life....that is by grace through faith.

The irony is that they are claiming to be saved by grace while they are trying to attain to it with their efforts...and NEVER getting there. Whereas an instant grace gives one the very holiness of God.

There are two ways we can go....one is to be present with the Lord and the other absent. But in either case we are to be humble and fearing...so that we can AT LEAST be acceptable to God (if not pleasing).

In building a human religious institution, people have organized God out of it.


Amen.

Yes....the loss of all things...to gain...everything.
once again.

How is one born again.

How is one saved from the condemnation of sin?
 
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Episkopos

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Putting on new man and putting off the old man is not a literal thing, but is only allegorically depicting a principle

Paul was not a philosopher. You have to realize that Paul did not give up his religion for a mere philosophy. You are missing the scale to a great extent. The parables are allegorical....but what Paul is speaking about is a heavenly power that translates mere humans into the very presence and keeping power of God...to walk as Jesus walked.

Human faith can't do this. The human mind can't conjure this. That's why so many have a form of godliness (allegorical) but DENY the power thereof. Always learning, but NEVER coming to the knowledge of the truth.

The truth is revolutionary...and not what one expects..it is to be "blasted" into another realm...to walk in the light as He is in the light.
...it has to do with what one is yielding to and walking in, either walking in the flesh or walking in the spirit....which means walking in the righteousness of Christ, which we can only do because He has given it to us a gift. Yielding our members to righteousness unto holiness and no longer to sin unto iniquity. Mortifying the deeds of the flesh BY THE SPIRIT is another way Paul explained the same thing.
If we walk in righteousness...that means being honest...admitting our weakness, and blindness in the flesh....THEN and only as we do so, do we no longer sin unto iniquity. Otherwise all our assuming and presuming forms the basis of our religious iniquity.

What is the difference between pretending one is something that one is not...and having a belief system that makes you claim to be something you are not???

It's only righteous if it IS. Otherwise it is unrighteousness.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Paul was not a philosopher. You have to realize that Paul did not give up his religion for a mere philosophy. You are missing the scale to a great extent. The parables are allegorical....but what Paul is speaking about is a heavenly power that translates mere humans into the very presence and keeping power of God...to walk as Jesus walked.

Human faith can't do this. The human mind can't conjure this. That's why so many have a form of godliness (allegorical) but DENY the power thereof. Always learning, but NEVER coming to the knowledge of the truth.

The truth is revolutionary...and not what one expects..it is to be "blasted" into another realm...to walk in the light as He is in the light.

If we walk in righteousness...that means being honest...admitting our weakness, and blindness in the flesh....THEN and only as we do so do we no longer sin unto iniquity. Otherwise all our assuming and presuming forms the basis of our religious iniquity.

What is the difference between pretending one is something what one is not...and having a belief system that makes you claim to be something you are not???
once again

how are you born again, how does one pass from death to life. how is the condemnation of sin removed?

I am going to keep asking you until you answer.,

All this talk about walking in Christ or in the spirit is useless if someone is still under condemnation from sin.,
 

Episkopos

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once again

how are you born again, how does one pass from death to life. how is the condemnation of sin removed?

I am going to keep asking you until you answer.,

All this talk about walking in Christ or in the spirit is useless if someone is still under condemnation from sin.,
A saved person is no longer condemned with the world...but now is slated to have a private judgment before Christ personally.

All who believe in Jesus will inherit eternal life.

But to what end? The religious hypocrites among God's people are not thrown into the lake of fire. No, they are cast away from God's presence to wander in the wilderness of darkness forever. Since these are satisfied with a pretend life with God...God will allow them to continue in truth and reality....what they claimed to save them, apart from His presence and power. It's the perfect end to all hypocrites. God is very great and very righteous. He gives us according to our words and our deeds.

I'm trying to save as many as possible from the inherent fate of those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. But no one will accuse me on that day of holding back the truth from those who would NOT listen to the words of Jesus and the warnings of the apostles and prophets.
 

Eternally Grateful

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A saved person is no longer condemned with the world...but now is slated to have a private judgment before Christ personally.
can you show me where it says we are condemned with the world?

What is eternal life?
All who believe in Jesus will inherit eternal life.

But to what end? The religious hypocrites among God's people are not thrown into the lake of fire. No, they are cast away from God's presence to wander in the wilderness of darkness forever. Since these are satisfied with a pretend life with God...God will allow them to continue in truth and reality....what they claimed to save them, apart from His presence and power. It's the perfect end to all hypocrites. God is very great and very righteous. He gives us according to our words and our deeds.

I'm trying to save as many as possible from the inherent fate of those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. But no one will accuse me on that day of holding back the truth from those who would NOT listen to the words of Jesus and the warnings of the apostles and prophets.
so your trying to save yourself. Your not relying and trusting in God to save you

What kind of Gospel is this?
 
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Johann

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I'm trying to save as many as possible from the inherent fate of those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
Sorry to be so blunt--you cannot save toffee apples and all you do is bring confusion to the table.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Like I said earlier this may sound crazy or at the very least make no sense. I struggle to believe it also, thinking it is craziness? but I’m being genuine that whether crazy and needing medication for it, or truly Him speaking something through His word. I can relate to the man who said “I believe! God, help my unbelief.”

by a New and Living Way. Where are you going Lord? how do we follow You? “I have shown you the Way.”

By this New and Living Way, which He renewed for us “to enter in” “pierce” through “the veil”.
That is His flesh. Entering in to the Holiest of Holy.

So now consider this …who sits as High Priest over the Body which is the House (Temple) of God? Who is seated over the House of God? Is it the Old man? Or the New?

Draw near —I have overcome the outer man- pierced right through him and defeated death, talking away the stone. does that outer man spit on you, does that outer man kick against the pricks, does the outer man persecute, hate and despise you. It is Christ he hates. Is the outer man a giant to you? That man is crucified. Stand you, confident, rooted, unshakable before the outer man, I have overcome death. Enter in…enter in through the veil.

With Sincerity of heart
In FULL assurance of Faith
Entering in “through the veil” of the outer man(crucified), INTO the Holiest of Holy (The inner man). he will kick, he will spit, he will foam.

Having Our body washed by and through the baptism, that is to say to partake of His suffering with Him, joined (assembling together) having a High priest seated over the House of God.
Cleansed with Pure Water.

Coming Face to Face with our enemy. If God be for us, who can be against us?
Stand having your loins girded about with Strength. Put on the helmet, this war isn’t won with carnal weapons. Hold fast the confession. As Christ has shown, holding fast His confession before Pilate. Hope without wavering. A man who wavers is unstable; tossed about, driven by the wind.
He is faithful who promised. Instructing of an entering in…

Provoke one another to love, and good deeds.
I tell you this will not be as easy as it is made out to be. When I say “provoke one another to Love”. An example has been given. More than one. Remember Paul who stood being accused of being a reprobate? As one who fails? Yet, all left him and Christ stood with him. How did Christ speaking through him, provoke them to love? Was the Life he now Lived in Christ wavering? Even before giants.
No. God walking in men does not waver.

Do not forsake the assembling together.
As is the habit of those who refuse to enter in out of the fear of what men will do, but encourage one another. As you see the day draw near.

For if you go on sinning after receiving the knowledge of entering into My kingdom through Christ, refusing and turning away because of the fear of what men will do unto you. There in no more sacrifice. You will not enter in through your burnt offerings and sacrifices. If you refuse, then have you any confidence in God the Father? or is your confidence in flesh…that it will withhold and prevent entering? If you refuse to enter in out of the fear of giants in the land, even when I went before you to make a New and Living Way… surely there is no more sacrifice to help you but instead this constant dread and fear that He who promised is not Faithful, as promised He does not forgive, and there is no entering in beyond “the veil” into the place God prepared for them entering in. Did He not say “I will go before you and make room?”

Enter in through the veil of the heart, enter the promised Land of the Holiest of Holy. “don’t be afraid of what men can do unto you. refusing, saying, no there are giants in the Land.” Consider the parable of many will believe but when persecution comes for My words sake, they will turn away.

but HOW can we enter when there is “a veil”?
Go through it!
Remember even the gates of hell could not stop His entering in through the veil.
 
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Episkopos

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can you show me where it says we are condemned with the world?


I said NOT condemned with the world. Go back and read how you get things EXACTLY backwards.

1 Corinthians 11:32. “But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.”
What is eternal life?
To know the Father and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.
so your trying to save yourself. Your not relying and trusting in God to save you

What kind of Gospel is this?
The gospel is not about what you think it is. It is not about salvation but about the kingdom of God and our access to it through Christ.

The "gospel of salvation" is a human invention...another gospel as Paul puts it. Only self-seekers think it is from God. It is by beliefs...not faith.
 
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Behold

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If we walk in righteousness...that means being honest...admitting our weakness, and blindness in the flesh....THEN and only as we do so, do we no longer sin unto iniquity.

Here is the issue with self righteousness, or as you are describing it...>""walk in righteousness" of yourself.

There isn't any.
Why?
Because self effort to try to be GOOD, isn't righteousness. Its just your self effort and everything on your list, an unbeliever can try to do, even to the point of trying to be like Jesus.
Hell is filled with them.

Why Did God Give the Cross of Christ?
Its because we dont have any righteousness, as our works are just our works, and "all have sinned".
So, for us to have Righteousness, as God defines it, is to have HIS,..... and you can't get there by your self effort = righteous works.

Reader, just remember...

See, When you are being told that your deeds, your striving, your SELF EFFORT, to be this and be that...... you are comparing yourself to the Son of God.
Can you reach His Righteousness by your "righteous works"?

NEVER.

And when we understand that the only Righteousness is Not of ourselves...... then we SEE the CROSS correctly, as God's :
= """GIFT of Righteousness"""" to us, which is HIS Salvation that is the GRACE of God that is our Redemption and Eternal Life.

You can't do that for yourself., but you can receive it from God, and be "made righteous" as "the righteousness of GOD", 'In Christ".

You can have this "Gift of Righteousness" that is "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory".

Welcome to : Salvation.

Its God making you RIGHTEOUS, through The Cross OF Christ.

= Thank YOU, Jesus.
 
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Johann

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The "gospel of salvation" is a human invention...another gospel as Paul puts it. Only self-seekers think it is from God. It is by beliefs...not faith.
No, the one bringing in an different gospel is you--the gospel of salvation a "human invention?!"

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Scriptures is not in agreement with you, and I am not in agreement with you.
 
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Waiting on him

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the entering in to the Kingdom of God is through much suffering.
And he indeed suffered, for rejecting their religious practices
You will not enter in through your burnt offerings and sacrifices. If you refuse, then have you any confidence in God the Father? or is your confidence in flesh…that it will withhold and prevent entering? If you refuse to enter in out of the fear of giants in the land, even when I went before you to make a New and Living Way… surely there is no more sacrifice to help you
I hope none of these current “ Christian’s” go back to sacrificing animals,


As they once did?
 

Eternally Grateful

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I said NOT condemned with the world. Go back and read how you get things EXACTLY backwards.

1 Corinthians 11:32. “But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.”
I am talking about John 3. Where Jesus said he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believes is condemned already.

There is nothing about the world in that passage.

I did not read anything backwards. Do you have the capability of actrually having a conversation without adding a bunch of nonsense?

To know the Father and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

The gospel is not about what you think it is. It is not about salvation but about the kingdom of God and our access to it through Christ.
If your not saved, Then your not in the kingdom of God. Your still dead in sin and still on the outside looking in.

The "gospel of salvation" is a human invention...another gospel as Paul puts it. Only self-seekers think it is from God. It is by beliefs...not faith.
Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.


Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

It is not invented, it is the word of Gods, thge gospel of salvation is through faith. and is given to anyone who believes.


Thats WHY jesus said he who believes is not condemned

He who does nto believe is condemned already.

Your self righteous gospel will not save you. it will just lead you to an eternal fire.
 

Eternally Grateful

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And he indeed suffered, for rejecting their religious practices

I hope none of these current “ Christian’s” go back to sacrificing animals,


As they once did?
what christian ever sacrificed animals?

You think you suffering is going to cause God to let you into heaven? SInce when is suffering a penalty of sin?
 
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