What does it mean to be born again?

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Behold

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Not at all. Most believers will never enter into the kingdom realm in this world...only those who God has chosen to.

That's Cross Rejecting = Hyper Calvinism that you are teaching her to believe.
Its a lie.
You are deeply damaging this woman's faith, if you have not already destroyed it, cultist.

Hyper Calvinism is a demonic lie, that TEACHES very specific Cross denying theology which explains and exposes your "Christ the Whipping BOY".... theology.

The worst of its Cross Rejection, is that it teaches that God chooses some to be born, chosen to go to hell.
You just taught her this CROSS DENYING LIE.
You are teaching her that God allows ONLY some to trust in Christ.(enter the Kingdom), and that is a lie from hell., and you are teaching her to believe this evil belief., Episkopos.

You are stumbling a believer, and God said, the NT verse says.... it would be better for you, if you drowned yourself, then do that to a believer........and that is a reality check, that you need to believe.

The Apostle Paul isn't kidding you, Episkopos.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Not at all. Most believers will never enter into the kingdom realm in this world...only those who God has chosen to. The way is narrow and FEW find it.

You'd have to understand the difference between the righteous and the holy. Even though we are born again in a burst of holiness...going to where there is perpetual holiness (the high calling) is very specific. Unless we meet the exact criteria...we are not qualified to enter in. It takes faith...ALL our faith, all our hearts. Anything less and nothing happens. It's a critical mass...which is ALL.

When we seek God with ALL our hearts....

And then there is the vast majority of the saved...the meek among the nations that the saints rule over in the next age.

So then to be ACCEPTED by God into the future age...we need humility and the fear of the Lord.

To be pleasing to the Lord we need to be walking in the resurrection life of Jesus.

Many are called (the righteous) and few are chosen (the holy).

God goes easy on the righteous. They are meek and claim only to be unprofitable. These are honest. The holy have a VERY HARD judgment. Anyone who fakes it and claims to be on that level...who claims to see.. and does NOT...will be cut off from God forever. There will be weeping and anger. The ones who make God's way of holiness filthy will wander in the wilderness forever. These are outcasts...Canaan prophetically (Ham) And Yapheth (the righteous) will dwell in the tents of Shem (the saints)
Okay, so…many are called but few are chosen is contrasting righteousness and holiness, NOT second death versus eternal life? And being one of the many called, living in the nations and being ruled over by the holy involves fearing God, humility/meekness, refusing to judge before the time, even if you don’t/can’t sell all you have and…based on descriptions of the 1000 year reign, sounds like an extremely good and happy place to be. And the criteria to be chosen is whether you are willing to sell all you have, give up your entire life. I guess nobody knows how much is enough concerning when God might accept a man’s sacrifice and his trust and translate him into a walk in the kingdom, walking in the Spirit in His holiness?

So why, if being called but never chosen is going to be such a wonderful place to be by the Bible’s description, do men have such fits over this and shriek at you that they are holy? Are they afraid because they don’t understand what you’re saying or does it just make them mad that…someone else sells all they have and receives more honor than them?
Ive had a hard life. I’ve had bitter struggle to trust completely. Im physically poor. (But I’m very blessed.) So to me, to be counted with the righteous would be heaven on earth.
But here and now, I want to know walking in the Spirit in His love. Here and now, I have great struggle.
 
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quietthinker

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That's Cross Rejecting = Hyper Calvinism that you are teaching her to believe.
Its a lie.
You are deeply damaging this woman's faith, if you have not already destroyed it, cultist.

Hyper Calvinism is a demonic lie, that TEACHES very specific Cross denying theology which explains and exposes your "Christ the Whipping BOY".... theology.

The worst of its Cross Rejection, is that it teaches that God chooses some to be born, chosen to go to hell.
You just taught her this CROSS DENYING LIE.
You are teaching her that God allows ONLY some to trust in Christ.(enter the Kingdom), and that is a lie from hell., and you are teaching her to believe this evil belief., Episkopos.

You are stumbling a believer, and God said, the NT verse says.... it would be better for you, if you drowned yourself, then do that to a believer........and that is a reality check, that you need to believe.

The Apostle Paul isn't kidding you, Episkopos.
Jesus gave his disciples, let alone the people, a lot of rope. So much rope in fact, he allowed the people to call for and crucify him without blame.
Would we do that or are we quick to accuse and join the ranks of the accuser because of our short vision which we deny or our righter than thou attitude or could it be we feel we have greater insight than Jesus, than Paul, than the Spirit?......which is what Satan assumes!

Long suffering.....consider its meaning!
 

stunnedbygrace

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And annais and Saphira - they claimed to have sold all they had, to be giving all they had, claimed to be holy? They lied about themselves. If they hadn’t done that, they’d have been okay? They highlight the seriousness of not just being honest and instead claiming you are something you aren’t.
And the men who saw what happened to them and feared God and refused to join in with the disciples but had respect for them - they were honest, saw the cost, remained Humble.
 

quietthinker

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And annais and Saphira - they claimed to have sold all they had, to be giving all they had, claimed to be holy? They lied about themselves. If they hadn’t done that, they’d have been okay? They highlight the seriousness of not just being honest and instead claiming you are something you aren’t.
And the men who saw what happened to them and feared God and refused to join in with the disciples but had respect for them - they were honest, saw the cost, remained Humble.
Reflecting on this story, I don't think God or the Spirit killed them overtly. I think the shock of self revelation did, like a heart attack.

One can live in denial with oneself and foster quiet a comfy place. Others may see you are in denial even hypocritical but it is water off a ducks back to you because of the attitude of denial but when self revelation bursts onto your scene, there's nowhere to hide. It's like a bolt of lightning out of a perceived blue sky and it can and does kill.
 

Episkopos

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Okay, so…many are called but few are chosen is contrasting righteousness and holiness, NOT second death versus eternal life? And being one of the many called, living in the nations and being ruled over by the holy involves fearing God, humility/meekness, refusing to judge before the time, even if you don’t/can’t sell all you have and…based on descriptions of the 1000 year reign, sounds like an extremely good and happy place to be. And the criteria to be chosen is whether you are willing to sell all you have, give up your entire life. I guess nobody knows how much is enough concerning when God might accept a man’s sacrifice and his trust and translate him into a walk in the kingdom, walking in the Spirit in His holiness?
Yes.

So why, if being called but never chosen is going to be such a wonderful place to be by the Bible’s description, do men have such fits over this and shriek at you that they are holy? Are they afraid because they don’t understand what you’re saying or does it just make them mad that…someone else sells all they have and receives more honor than them?

The spirit of Cain. A jealous reaction against those whom God receives.
Ive had a hard life. I’ve had bitter struggle to trust completely. Im physically poor. (But I’m very blessed.) So to me, to be counted with the righteous would be heaven on earth.
But here and now, I want to know walking in the Spirit in His love. Here and now, I have great struggle.
May the Lord grant your desire. It's not over till the end. waiting patiently...and passing the test of faith...God will not cast that aside.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Reflecting on this story, I don't think God or the Spirit killed them overtly. I think the shock of self revelation did, like a heart attack.
mmm…I don’t know…I think I don’t agree. I think it’s like Uzzah being struck dead for improper handling of Gods holiness. And like Moses not being allowed to enter the promised land for improper behavior in holiness.
And look, Moses was seen at the transfiguration. He feared God, was humble, and God obviously accepted him even though he failed to enter the promised land.
 
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quietthinker

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mmm…I don’t know…I think I don’t agree. I think it’s like Uzzah being struck dead for improper handling of Gods holiness. And like Moses not being allowed to enter the promised land for improper behavior in holiness.
And look, Moses was seen at the transfiguration. He feared God, was humble, and God obviously accepted him even though he failed to enter the promised land.
I don't know what to do with the story of Uzzah....although that is not quiet true but let me digress a little.
In the previous post I said I didn't think God or the Spirit killed Ananias and Saphira. I would also add that I don't think Jesus killed them.....or would you say Jesus was complicit seeing they're a unit?

Going back to Uzzah recorded in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles. Those Hebrews believed in one power, that of God, so everything that happened both good and bad, God was responsible for. There are OT scriptures that state this explicitly.

Jesus said it was the devil who came to steal, kill and destroy. Jesus had visions and aspirations of giving people life, not taking it.....so, instead of making God responsible for A&S's death it would be far more consistent to make the devil or themselves responsible.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I don't know what to do with the story of Uzzah....although that is not quiet true but let me digress a little.
In the previous post I said I didn't think God or the Spirit killed Ananias and Saphira. I would also add that I don't think Jesus killed them.....or would you say Jesus was complicit seeing they're a unit?

Going back to Uzzah recorded in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles. Those Hebrews believed in one power, that of God, so everything that happened both good and bad, God was responsible for. There are OT scriptures that state this explicitly.

Jesus said it was the devil who came to steal, kill and destroy. Jesus had visions and aspirations of giving people life, not taking it.....so, instead of making God responsible for A&E's death it would be far more consistent to make the devil or themselves responsible.
Well…God is holy. You don’t mess with holiness. Think of all the strict and exacting rules for priests - what they must do and not do, the rules regarding their defilement or cleansing. Think about the stories of how the priest who went into the holy of holies had a rope tied around him in case he somehow mistepped and offended Gods holiness and was struck dead. All that strictness and rules and warnings wasn’t because God likes to kill people, it was so they WOULDNT be struck dead.

Epi has compared the man who argued with God, the one told to go to a street called Straight. That man argued with God. Why was HE not struck dead for that yet annais and saphira WERE struck dead? Lying is not okay but arguing with God is…?
Maybe Epi will kindly go over why that is again. :)
 

quietthinker

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Well…God is holy. You don’t mess with holiness. Think of all the strict and exacting rules for priests - what they must do and not do, the rules regarding their defilement or cleansing. Think about the stories of how the priest who went into the holy of holies had a rope tied around him in case he somehow mistepped and offended Gods holiness and was struck dead. All that strictness and rules and warnings wasn’t because God likes to kill people, it was so they WOULDNT be struck dead.

Epi has compared the man who argued with God, the one told to go to a street called Straight. That man argued with God. Why was HE not struck dead for that yet annais and saphira WERE struck dead? Lying is not okay but arguing with God is…?
Maybe Epi will kindly go over why that is again. :)
I suppose the picture of God that we have comes down to who we think had the more accurate view.....either the Old Testament writers or Jesus. I think Jesus clarified the view (often distorted) that folk in the OT had and as the book of Hebrews chapter 1:1-3 states,......

'In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Unrelated but something I just saw. A correlation between how they were to not let the lamp or menorah in the temple go out and the foolish virgins running out of oil for their lamps.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I suppose the picture of God that we have comes down to who we think had the more accurate view.....either the Old Testament writers or Jesus.
Hmm…I don’t think the OT was a different view. It was all patterned after heavenly things and it all spoke of Jesus. The law spoke of Him and heavenly things. Prophecy/the prophets spoke of Him and heavenly things. The temple and how it was to be built and adorned was exacting and had to be patterned on heavenly things, had to tell of heavenly things, portray those heavenly things.

And it’s like Epi said, in holiness men are judged harder. In righteousness they are judged more leniently. A righteous man can fall many times and get back up and repent and begin running again. In holiness, one mistake and you’re out. (And out doesn’t mean you will die the second death, as Moses shows us.)
It seems like…you have to find a correct balance between fear of God and courage like Esther had when she said she would approach the king and if he didn’t extend his scepter then she would die…
 
J

Johann

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Not at all. Most believers will never enter into the kingdom realm in this world...only those who God has chosen to. The way is narrow and FEW find it.
A bit of Calvinism mixed in, doctrine of election.
 
J

Johann

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And it’s like Epi said, in holiness men are judged harder. In righteousness they are judged more leniently. A righteous man can fall many times and get back up and repent and begin running again. In holiness, one mistake and you’re out. (And out doesn’t mean you will die the second death, as Moses shows us.)
It seems like…you have to find a correct balance between fear of God and courage like Esther had when she said she would approach the king and if he didn’t extend his scepter then she would die…
Righteousness and holiness are two words that describe states of moral excellence. There is a slight difference between the two concepts. Oxford Dictionary’s definition of holiness is “the state of being holy,” and the definition of holy is “dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred” or “morally and spiritually excellent.” The Oxford definition of righteousness is “the quality of being morally right or justifiable,” and the definition of righteous is “morally right or justifiable; virtuous.” So, righteousness is the condition of being proven or declared morally excellent, while holiness is the condition of being consecrated or dedicated to moral excellence.

Think of it this way: a ballerina who dances for the New York City Ballet has been declared good enough to be part of that company. From a young age, she has set herself apart to that purpose, to honing her skills, and she continues to practice and improve as she dances. In this analogy, righteousness is the ballerina’s position in the ballet company. She has been given a position, her talents have been approved, and she belongs to the company. Holiness is the ballerina’s dedication and devotion to her art. Everything in her life—what she eats, whom she knows, how she spends her time and money—bows to this purpose.

To some, terms like righteousness and holiness can be a bit daunting. We think, “But that’s not how I am,” or we wonder how we can be sinful and also holy or righteous. Many people experience fear and doubt that stem from the idea that we need to “clean ourselves up” or be “good enough” before we come to God. This confusion is natural, considering the strict definition of righteousness and holiness. We want to be approved and included, but we often feel like our spiritual “dancing skills” are just not up to par—and never will be.

The Bible provides hope. We are not left to achieve righteousness and holiness on our own. Quite the opposite. In fact, left to ourselves, we would never achieve those states. Let’s look at righteousness first, and then holiness.

The story of righteousness really starts with a man named Abram in the ancient city of Ur in Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq). God called Abram to leave his country, his people, and his father’s household and go to the land God would show him. God promised to make Abram into a great nation and bless the nations of the world through him (Genesis 12:1–3). In faith, Abram gathered up his household and left. Several years later, God told Abram, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward” (Genesis 15:1). Abram asked what God could give him since Abram still had no children. God again promised him an heir and offspring as numerous as the stars (Genesis 15:2–5). “Abram believed the LORD, and he credited to him as righteousness” (Genesis 15:6).

What was “morally excellent” or righteous about Abram believing God? He had not sacrificed anything to God. He had not done some mighty work in God’s name. He had not even perfectly trusted God in the journey so far (see Genesis 12:11–20). He hadn’t done anything except listen to God’s words and accept them as true. And for that Abram was counted righteous in God’s eyes. If we look at the definition of righteousness again, “the quality of being morally right or justifiable,” it is clear that this incident set the foundation of justification by faith, a concept explored many more times throughout Scripture (Romans 4; Galatians 3; James 2:23).

Galatians 3:7–9 links all who have faith in Christ to their predecessor in faith, Abraham: “Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” All who have faith in Christ are righteous in God’s sight, regardless of their nationality (Galatians 3:26–29). “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9). Paul explains, “God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). It is by Jesus’ work on the cross that we are made righteous, and by faith we are justified, or declared righteous, before God.

Now, what about holiness? The Bible says that “without holiness no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, praised God for sending the Messiah, saying, in part, that Jesus would “enable us to serve him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him all our days” (Luke 1:74). The apostle Peter wrote, “But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy’” (1 Peter 1:15–16). Ephesians 4 explains that we are to put off our old, sinful self, “which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:22–24).

Like righteousness, holiness is a gift from God. The process of becoming holy is called sanctification, and God promises to complete His sanctification in us because of Christ’s work on the cross. The writer of Hebrews explains positional sanctification: “By [God’s] will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all,” and also alludes to progressive sanctification, speaking of “those who are being made holy” (Hebrews 10:10, 14). We are perfected and sanctified by one event: Christ’s substitutionary atonement on the cross for our sin. As we live our lives in Christ, our holiness increases as we yield to the work of the Holy Spirit within us and follow this command: “Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose” (Philippians 2:12–13; see also Romans 12:1–2; Hebrews 12:1–2).

The opposite to what you explained to @quietthinker
 
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