What does it mean to be born again?

[Episkopos]

That's all you are doing? Is it? In your posts to others, (not all) you make things direct and personal by saying, "you are still carnal, fleshly, and have need of Christ", on the sole basis of their differing in theology.

Based on their hostility to the truth.

Paul said those things based on evidential behavior and character.

As I do.

What things I have seen in others posts here, things that you claim are fleshly and carnal, I see also in yours. Now I do not immediately start the writers of being fleshly and carnal , but there could be any number of reasons why they differ to me in theology.

This is not about theology...but about a religious flesh covering seeking to divert the meaning of the gospel onto itself.

I could be wrong for a start, and that would mean someone needs to get their Bible out and show to me how.

Been trying...

Or, they could be wrong, (according to my perception of biblical truth which could also be wrong) and that would then be my calling to get my Bible out and show them how, which they would in response either show me my error, or deny my right to speak on some account, whether it's my denominational affiliation which everyone knows is SDA, or their misunderstanding of what I'm actually trying to say, (or ignorance of what SDAs actually teach which is common) which I would endeavor to clarify, which on some subjects is not an easy task. Some topics cannot be described or explained in a few paragraphs, and very few have the patience or willingness to go further. But what I try to avoid is calling those who do not agree stupid, fleshly, carnal, and unsaved and in need of Jesus. That simply ain't my job.

OK.

I am witnessing a great deal of presumption in this forum, not only regarding what other people believe which is bad enough, but their motives in doing so, which is far worse. Keep things generic brother without the personal put-downs and you'll be fine.

I try to....but people keep putting their foot in it. :) I can either allow the lies to stand...and not defend the truth, which makes it appear that there is no defense to their accusations...OR.. I can answer a fool according to his/her folly.

My motive is always to win them to Christ.

 

[APAK]

This is idealized. Paul wrote what happened to him. BUT very few are like Paul. All you have to do is read his warnngs about being cut off....like the Israelites to realize Paul is not trying to form a delusional religious formula for succeess for whoever names and claims it. You have to see how your idealization gets in the way of a true walk, a true repentance, a true encounter...all so that you can claim that everything that happened to Paul is automatically yours.

Epi; I see you are recycling the same pessimistic, know-it-all, better than thou sermon once again on us commoners. You cannot help yourself for some reason as this approach it seems is the only way you feel comfortable as you leave important unwritten questions in your wake, and about what you really said and especially what you meant. Folks are still believing you have not come clean with your public views on this subject of rebirth. I'm one of them.

Do you really think that only a very few believers who become reborn into the Kingdom of God received a wow factor, a genuine power encounter with God? I did! My life changed permanently on the inside to the outside and I had and I still do have a passion for the truth of God in my heart. The fire is still bright and yes the Spirit of God does 'speak' to me in its own way that caused/es me to alter or move in a direction I really did not plan for, to warn me and discipline me, to love me, many times in my life. I still obey in love and the knowledge it is righteous and my Father and his Son, my friend they are calling me and love me. It's a peaceful and a rewarding act of obedience, under no stress or strain at all. It is welcomed and I enjoy it.

In fact I never knew or at least understood much of Paul's words for example as you keep going to him as one of your favorite authors, until after I was reborn and became a new man. And this is logical as the true life-changing experience comes before any amount of written spiritual reassurance comes into view, in the form of reading all this holy experience of others and mine in scripture. When I read in scripture how Jesus wrote about rebirth and the words from Paul and from John I was/still am amazed and reassured my encounter was indeed from God, it was truly real! I'm in the same company as Paul!

Did you have a genuine conversion encounter with God on the common streets of this world as Paul did or myself in my own right? Of course his was more historically and currently still more significant as he actually heard and experienced the voice of our Saviour and made deep imprints on human history and Christianity. Regardless, we both entered the Kingdom the same way, with saving faith, and with different measures of faith, and power of the Spirit of God and received our full measure of grace for salvation and more to come in the future in our lives for different purposes in the service of God. We both met and became crucified as and in Christ on his Cross with utmost humility with open hearts of contriteness and genuine repentance of sin and the sinfulness and worthlessness of us in our rotting flesh. We became justified and we wore the righteousness of Christ and God. We began to reveal our inner new seed of/in Christ germinate into maturity in works of the fruit of the Spirit of the Father.

And still after saying all this, you do not know my heart and my walk in the Spirit today or yesterday and tomorrow. There is NO human standard or qualification you can pin on anyone, how can you, as you also misread and misapply some scripture to build up your elitist theories of salvation and rebirth, where you believe only a select few experience true (higher) walk, and a real encounter with God. You really believe that many of not reborn at all because they do not meet your standards. Well you can imagine and idealize all you want. It is still a false doctrine.

Yes, there are some professing believers who are not genuine reborn converts and some are also well-versed and grounded in the scriptures. And they wear an external mask of self - righteousness and give lip service to the word of God and to an artificial salvation experience. This much I will agree upon with you, and never your false theory of rebirth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Epi; I see you are recycling the same pessimistic, know-it-all, better than thou sermon once again on us commoners. You cannot help yourself for some reason as this approach it seems is the only way you feel comfortable

Apak, I see you are recycling the same pessimistic, know it all, better than thou attitude in your opinion of epi and his heart motives. You cannot help yourself from attacking him. For some reason this approach is the only way you seem to feel comfortable.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I had and I still do have a passion for the truth of God in my heart.

Thanks for sharing with us how pious you are.

 

[Episkopos]

Epi; I see you are recycling the same pessimistic, know-it-all, better than thou sermon once again on us commoners.

I am putting back in what people are leaving out. Not pessimistic...but realistic. Not idealistic...but balanced.

Do you really think that only a very few believers who become reborn into the Kingdom of God received a wow factor, a genuine power encounter with God? I did! My life changed permanently on the inside to the outside and I had and I still do have a passion for the truth of God in my heart. The fire is still bright and yes the Spirit of God does 'speak' to me in its own way that caused/es me to alter or move in a direction I really did not plan for, to warn me and discipline me, to love me, many times in my life. I still obey in love and the knowledge it is righteous and my Father and his Son, my friend they are calling me and love me. It's a peaceful and a rewarding act of obedience, under no stress or strain at all. It is welcomed and I enjoy it.

How hard is it to retain humility and the fear of the Lord? What about wisdom?

Do you feel threatened by the warnings that are clearly laid out in the bible? And this is not personal against you.

In fact I never knew or at least understood much of Paul's words for example as you keep going to him as one of your favorite authors, until after I was reborn and became a new man. And this is logical as the true life-changing experience comes before any amount of written spiritual reassurance comes into view, in the form of reading all this holy experience of others and mine in scripture. When I read in scripture how Jesus wrote about rebirth and the words from Paul and from John I was/still am amazed and reassured my encounter was indeed from God, it was truly real! I'm in the same company as Paul!

You come here in a broken weakness and in fear and trembling like Paul? Really?

And still after saying all this, you do not know my heart and my walk in the Spirit today or yesterday and tomorrow. There is NO human standard or qualification you can pin on anyone, how can you, as you also misread and misapply some scripture to build up your elitist theories of salvation and rebirth, where you believe only a select few experience true (higher) walk, and a real encounter with God. You really believe that many of not reborn at all because they do not meet your standards. Well you can imagine and idealize all you want. It is still a false doctrine.

The existence of the higher walk that Paul speaks about should keep us in godly fear of exaggerating our claims. What is the true false doctrine is to claim more than what we have. Paul says don't esteem yourself higher than you ought. Your way of seeing that as pessimistic obscures the higher calling that Paul is exhorting people to seek after...to WIN Christ. And I only bring that up when people claim to have that level of justification for a much lower walk. Judgment begins at the house of God.....and many will be cut off for claiming to see...when they are blind.

God goes easy on the humble (He gives them grace)....but He resists the proud. Is this about your religious pride Apak?

Yes, there are some professing believers who are not genuine reborn converts and some are also well-versed and grounded in the scriptures. And they wear an external mask of self - righteousness and give lip service to the word of God and to an artificial salvation experience. This much I will agree upon with you, and never your false theory of rebirth.

I don't have a false theory of rebirth. I see it in the context of the calling that is in Christ. To not have that perspective is irresponsible and is to be a false shepherd that leads people astray on every mountain of carnal exaltation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I still obey

It's a peaceful and a rewarding act of obedience

Thanks for sharing with us your testifying as to how obedient and pious you are.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Did you have a genuine conversion encounter with God on the common streets of this world as Paul did or myself in my own right?

Oh, I’m sure he is nothing like you and Paul!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We both met and became crucified as and in Christ on his Cross with utmost humility

Thanks for sharing with us how humble you and Paul are.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Folks are still believing you have not come clean with your public views on this subject of rebirth.

Well if you think he still hasn’t been open or come clean with his views on rebirth in the 100 pages of his thread that you have read, I wouldn’t hold my breath and wait.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It is still a false doctrine.

Well, thank goodness he hasn’t peddled even worse things like the lie that Jesus isn’t to be worshiped!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But what I try to avoid is calling those who do not agree stupid

I have read nearly every post this man has written over the course of about…15 years, on multiple sites. He has never, in ANY of them, called any man stupid.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So Episkopos is attacking the very words of Christ and the very foundation of the Christian faith. That is similar to what the devil said to Eve" Yea, hath God said...?" Do we really need such devilish nonsense on a Christian forum?

So Enoch111 is attacking this member again and trying to tear down and not build up in trust or any unity in the Spirit.
Maybe some think what you speak and do is similar to satan. I think your constant tearing down of this man is devilish nonsense that isn’t needed on a Christian forum.