You are not free from sin while sinning. You are free from the penalty of death when you are given the down payment of the Spirit, but “you are yet carnal” does not mean you are free from sin.
What does it mean to be born again?
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Nothing is being distorted...it's what the bible simply says....I just brought the scriptures. New creation, new man, inner man created after the image of Christ.....Christ in us the hope of glory (and the need to walk in the Spirit as Paul also wrote in Romans).
Was it true that the Israelites were chosen by God? Is it the fault of that doctrine if some were puffed up by that? That's why Jesus had to tell them God could raise up stones to be sons of Abraham. The word of God tests us and teases out what is in our hearts.
Honestly brother, it sounds like you are bringing another gospel and rewriting the plain truth. I had thought I was just not understanding you on some of these things, but it appears not. Yes, we need to grow and go on to perfection and I believe it's possible that some, a relative few, will have this work completed in them in this life (except for the physical flesh)... have a hunch the apostle John was one example in scripture and that is why he received the revelation of Christ fully revealed to him (no veil left in the way!) and coming in His power and glory etc. But as to the foundational things, oh my, please do not deny those essential truths! That is why Jesus is both the cornerstone of the foundation, and capstone! Author and Finisher! It's why, when Galations were falling away from that wonderful grace and truth, Paul had to be in labour AGAIN that Christ be formed in them again.
Just to add that it's not positive thinking, it's FAITH. Real faith in a real reality of what Jesus has done for us.
And as the apostle wrote to remind and instruct us because we need to be, it's not of our own, so that no man may boast. If any are smug or boast (as we know some are unfortunately self-righteous like that), it's not God's fault.
A man who is freed who will not exit his cell is freed while he remains jailed. The difference being, before, it was not in his power to leave, now it is, yet he does not do so.
You have to ask yourself, is this true of me? Am I baptized into Christ?
Romans 6:3-7 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
That is some wicked stuff if that is what that person is teaching .
Too many now teach a god and a christ that bows to the hearts of men and their desires of the flesh .
But MARK , MARK my words , those who do so shall await a terrible and utter agnozing punishment and death in the lake of fire .
WE better KNEEL TO GOD and HIS CHRIST and not rather create a version of them that kneels to our desires . IT WONT BODE WELL .
Men do as men do , but lambs DO as JESUS said to do .
ScottA
Well-Known Member
All good. The important thing to grasp while immersed in the world and still prone to thinking in terms of times, is that the testing that precedes salvation ends in the holy fire of the Holy Spirit (sent by Jesus) resulting in new birth.
You can’t just choose to be free of your flesh. Even secular courts realize that, with different penalties for planned murder and heat of the moment murder. And Paul also recognized you cannot just be free of your flesh by choice by speaking about how you do what you dont want to because of sin in you.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Same paul said who we obey HIS SERVANTS WE ARE . LETS NOT FORGET THAT .
I case you didn't know...walking in the Spirit is
περιπατειτε
G4043
V-PAM-2P
περιπατέω
to tread all around
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: Present
Voice: Active
Mood: iMperative [A command to be obeyed, no questions asked!]
Person: second [you+]
Number: Plural
Gal_5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Walking in the Spirit and being in the Spirit is synonymous
"if" There is a series of conditional sentences in Rom. 8:9,10,11,13 (twice),17 (twice). They are all first class conditional sentences, which are assumed true from the writer's point of view or for his literary purposes. Paul was assuming his readers in the Roman church were Christians (cf. Rom. 8:9a).
"the Spirit of Christ" Persons either have the Spirit and are, therefore, believers or they do not have the Spirit and are spiritually lost. We receive all of the Holy Spirit at salvation. We do not need more of Him; He needs more of us!
The phrases "the Spirit" of 9a; "the Spirit of God" of 9b, and "the Spirit of Christ" of 9c are all synonymous.
"if" This is a first class conditional (ei with an assumed indicative verb "to be"). Paul assumes his readers (i.e., the church at Rome) are
1. indwelt by Christ
2. have Christ in their midst
"Christ is in you" The "you" is plural. The term "Christ" refers to the indwelling Son/Spirit (cf. John 14:16-17; Col. 1:27). People have the Son/Spirit or they are not Christians (cf. 1 John 5:12). For Paul, "in Christ" is theologically the same as "in the Spirit."
"if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live"
Assurance of believers' salvation is validated or demonstrated by their Christian lifestyle (cf. the NT books of James and 1 John). Believers do not live this new life in their own effort, but by the agency of the Spirit (cf. v.14). However, they must daily yield themselves to His control (cf. Eph. 5:17-18; 6:10-18).
Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
Eph 5:19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,
Eph 5:20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 5:21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
I don't see this "submitting one to the other" on this Forum
Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;
Eph 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
Eph 6:18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
It is as simple as that, we are in the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, or not at all, which means we don't have the Spirit and are none of Christ.
It is the outward manifestation of the inward reality that we are born again, that we are justified and sanctified, that we are the righteousness of God in Christ and to yield obedience to the Imperatives as recorded in Scriptures, or none of the above, just absorbing knowledge.
You may correct me should you think I am promoting a heteros gospel.
2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
...and lean not unto our own understanding [difficult, in this day and age]
2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Paul is saying that he does not take for granted all that he has been given, understanding that he could not even finish his course were it not for "i can do all things through Christ".
And you've noticed that there is always this misunderstanding that self righteousness creates that analyzes the Grace of God incorrectly.
Self righteousness SEES "being made free from sin" and "eternal security", as an invitation to live like the devil. A Key to sinful pleasure. A free pass to live like hell.
But on the Contrary, when a born again person understands that "being made righteous" by The Gift of Salvation... what this COST GOD and JESUS to PROVIDE as "THE CROSS".... they do not "count that" as leeway or license or non-accountability. They instead fall down on their knees and wash Jesus's feet with their tears and wipe them dry with their hair.
Well said @Lizbeth and may our Lord help us to see the "pride" ever lurking in our members, the eyes of our understanding being enlightened that we might know what is the hope to which he has called us and what are the riches of his glorious inheritance IN the saints....
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Indeed, [actually] being born again of the spirit of God, is not a new hat, or even a new book to quote from. One does not walk in the spirit like one walks into a room an turns the light on--no, but those who do are rather like a deer in the headlights, who then turn to a defensive position for lack of internal confidence that is not them at all, but Christ in them. Such are the religious. Unfortunately.
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I find this edifying from Gill.
c. It is implanted in the heart in regeneration; it is put there by the Spirit of God, where
it was not before, and where it never could have been, had he not put it there, and it appears
as soon in a regenerate man as any grace whatever; upon first conversion there is quickly
found a tenderness of conscience with respect to sin, and a carefulness not to offend God;
and indeed “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Ps. 111:10; Prov. 9:10). No
man is truly wise until he fears God, and as soon as he fears the Lord he begins to be wise,
and not before; yea the fear of the Lord is wisdom itself; it is that wisdom and truth which
God desires and puts into the inward and hidden parts of the heart (Job 28:28; Ps. 51:6).
51
Of the Fear of God
4d. The word and prayer are the means of attaining it; the fear of the Lord, as it is a duty,
and expressive of worship, is to be learned; “Come ye children, hearken unto me”, says
David, “I will teach you the fear of the Lord” (Ps. 34:11). The law of God, and especially the
whole of doctrine both legal and evangelical, is the means of learning it (Deut. 4:10; 17:19),
and therefore is called the fear of the Lord (Ps. 19:7, 9), but as a grace it is diligently sought
after and earnestly importuned of God; the heart must not only be instructed but united to
fear the Lord, and which is to be prayed for (Ps. 86:11; Prov. 2:3-5).
4e. It is encouraged, promoted, and increased by fresh discoveries of the grace and
goodness of God, “They shall fear the Lord and his goodness”; the goodness of God made
known, bestowed, and applied, greatly influences the fear him (Hosea 3:5), especially an
application of his pardoning grace and mercy, “There is forgiveness with thee that thou
mayest be feared” (Ps. 130:4).
5. The happiness of those that fear the Lord. There is scarcely anyone character by which
the people of God are described, under which more promises of good things are made unto
them, than this.
5a. First, with respect to things temporal. Godliness in general, and this part of it, the
fear of the Lord, in particular, has the promise of this life, as well as of that which is to come.
5a1. It is promised they shall have no want, not of temporal good things, “O fear the
Lord, ye his saints, for there is no want to them that fear him” (Ps. 34:9, 10), not of any good
thing; that is, which is suitable and convenient for them, and God in his wisdom sees fit and
proper for them; and rather than they shall want, he will do wonders for them, and open
sources of relief they never thought of (Isa. 41:17, 18; 43:19, 20).
Wise words from our brother Gill.
I read at least part of this.
Remain in Me and I in you are two different things to me. Since I have never been in the Spirit or walked in the Spirit yet, I could be wrong about that in some way but the verses tell me they are two different things.
Romans 6:6-12 KJV
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
How can this be? How is it that you are able to not let sin reign in your mortal body?
Much love!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
That is a very accurate statement of the crux of the problem and the misunderstanding of so many who see the sin and think the worst. It is however not correct. In fact it is "while we were yet sinners" that God saves us, causing us to be free from it. Such is the grace of God.
Now there is still the impression of continued sin being evidence against it--but what are we to believe, our eyes and our own lowly thoughts supported by part of the scriptures, or all of what is written?
Still, what about the feeling that remains that we are not [really] completely there, not fully arrived, not a hundred percent--even if we feel new? Why should we be convinced of what we don't yet feel we have fully attained? The answer is not that those other scriptures that would seem to indicate that salvation is instantaneous don't actually mean what they say. No, but rather that we are looking at it wrong--that the sin whether remaining to some degree, is not the measure of salvation--we are not the measure. Christ in us is!
Which was made evident before His ascension, for He wore the marks of our sins also, and yet was pure in and of Himself. He is the measure.
In a nutshell...cross avoidance. We must come to the end of ourselves each time to progress to a new level of grace with the Lord. Calling something there that isn't there is NOT faith...it is fantasy...or as the bible puts it...fables. People will be uplifted in their flesh...thinking that's advancement. But for Jesus to truly be the finisher of one's faith...there is a surrender that needs to take place. A further going to Him...when we come to the end of ourselves.
I see a bleacher full of the peanut gallery spurring on a carnal attempt at fulness in Christ....but without the requisite fear of the Lord and the humility required to see that the flesh is not enough. Human reasoning is not enough.
There is a way that seems right to a man (or woman)....
It takes a breaking to realize there is more to the present limitation....a pipe with a blockage can be unplugged...and reveal a passage that goes on to the next blockage. but this requires spiritual understanding and experience to realize this. Otherwise people will think that the blockage is there until one dies...thereby effectively bearing no eternal fruit.
People perish for a lack of knowledge and depending on their own understanding.
I admire your frankness, that you have never been in, or walked in the Spirit.
May I give you advice? Don't go on other's testimonies Stun.
Do not compare your experience with that of other's.
I didn't actually bring the scripture about walking in the spirit. Christ in us - the new man, inner man renewed and righteous because it is created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph 4) after the image of Christ (Col 3) - is the foundation.
But I believe walking in the spirit is always available to us since the new birth, however it's a question of learning and growing....whether or how much anyone is walking in it. All the promises are yes&amen.....but how much of those promises are we walking in. Learning to "walk" is for little children....so maybe we can say learning to walk in the spirit is part of becoming as a little child. :)
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