Mark of the Beast and salvation

[Truth7t7]

My issue isn’t do the ones with the literal mark repent it’s can they Repent?

No they can't repent, they are vessels of wrath fitted for "Destruction"

Roman's 9:20-24KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Gottservant]

No your not .

You are trying to find a loop hole from scripture that enables you to disobey God and still be forgiven for receiving the MoB.

Exactly what satan wants you to do.

The thing is, once you take the mark, you are constantly in error - having taken the Law in your own hands, to justify all manner of sins.

It's like red meat to the Lion, if you are raw with sin (the moreso because of the mark).

I wouldn't even recommend pitying such a person (not in public, let the reader discern).

 

[Brakelite]

Excellent Post - thank you

The Good News is that Christ is the 7th Day of Rest, whereby all who come to Him fulfill the requirement of keeping the Sabbath.

If you are in Christ, you are in God's Day of Rest and no one can remove you from it - no matter what day of the week.

At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Because of Christ's Finished Work, the only way a person can break the Commandment to keep the Sabbath Day is to reject Christ.

Okay, this is probably a conversation for another time and place, although I guess it was inevitable it would come. All I'll say at this point is
A. I agree that all in Christ are, or at should be, at rest in Him.
B. Being at rest in Him spiritually however, doesn't answer the mental assent and physical response to God's authority as expressed in the 4th commandment. There is nowhere in scripture intimating that the actual physical 7th day is not still holy.

 

[Marty fox]

Jas 2:19 - You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
Tools

Jas 2:20 - But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[fn

????????

I have no idea why you quoted this to me I’m talking about how scripture can’t contradict scripture

 

[David in NJ]

Okay, this is probably a conversation for another time and place, although I guess it was inevitable it would come. All I'll say at this point is
A. I agree that all in Christ are, or at should be, at rest in Him.
B. Being at rest in Him spiritually however, doesn't answer the mental assent and physical response to God's authority as expressed in the 4th commandment. There is nowhere in scripture intimating that the actual physical 7th day is not still holy.

Time to SEE what God desired from the very Beginning.

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all his work which God created and made."

Do you not know? Have you not heard?
The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth
Does not become weary or tired.
His understanding is unsearchable.

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

What is God's 7th Day Rest = the only Begotten of the Father, full of Grace and Truth

Have you never read this =
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

 

[Marty fox]

How does the clerk at the grocery store know you have unrepentant sins which makes it okay to sell to you?

I have already explained this but stop side stepping with questions and explain how a literal make doesn’t contradict scripture

 

[Marty fox]

No

So then you agree that if they can’t repent from a literal mark that then contradicts John 3:16

 

[Marty fox]

Mat 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord,Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Tools

Mat 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Tools

Mat 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,ye that work iniquity

Once again??????

 

[Marty fox]

You are debating what happens to those who take the mark, it’s your claim that they can be forgiven. If you’re not claiming they can be forgiven I wouldn’t know it from your posts.

I have never claimed that no one can repent from having the mark what I claimed is that if it’s a literal mark then they can because of John 3:16 thus the mark is real and can’t be a literal mark but a symbolic mark of unrepentant devotion to the beast

 

[Marty fox]

So all day today I have been debating with about 5 or 6 of you and all you have done is post views about me that I never claimed. You have also thrown verses at me that have no bearing on this topic

Not one of you have answered my direct question about proving how a literal mark doesn’t contradict verses like John 3:16 because you can’t.

What I am doing is presenting the only view of the mark that doesn’t contradict other scriptures I am interpreting scripture with scripture.

I have also answered every post to me but still not one of you have answered my question that I have been asking all day in a way that doesn’t contradict John 3:16 this is a very unprofessional way of debating

 

[Gottservant]

So all day today I have been debating with about 5 or 6 of you and all you have done is post views about me that I never claimed. You have also thrown verses at me that have no bearing on this topic

[...]

I have also answered every post to me but still not one of you have answered my question that I have been asking all day in a way that doesn’t contradict John 3:16 this is a very unprofessional way of debating

I'm sorry you have found it unhelpful to debate.

I think the problem is that basically we work from the admonition not to take the mark, backwards and then look for a reason not to take it - when really we should be asking God "Lord, deliver me from taking the mark, whatever Your reason was, in Jesus Name Amen". Then it becomes a matter of personal sin, not conjecture about the power of the anti-Christ (to make repentance unnecessary).

 

[RLT63]

????????

I have no idea why you quoted this to me I’m talking about how scripture can’t contradict scripture

“I have no idea why you quoted this to me”. Yeah that’s the problem.

 

[RLT63]

Once again??????

Once again the problem is you are incapable of understanding

 

[RLT63]

So all day today I have been debating with about 5 or 6 of you and all you have done is post views about me that I never claimed. You have also thrown verses at me that have no bearing on this topic

Not one of you have answered my direct question about proving how a literal mark doesn’t contradict verses like John 3:16 because you can’t.

What I am doing is presenting the only view of the mark that doesn’t contradict other scriptures I am interpreting scripture with scripture.

I have also answered every post to me but still not one of you have answered my question that I have been asking all day in a way that doesn’t contradict John 3:16 this is a very unprofessional way of debating

What makes you professional? Where did you get the idea that the mark of the beast is symbolic? Is it in a commentary or is this your idea that a literal mark contradicts John 3:16?

 

[Brakelite]

Time to SEE what God desired from the very Beginning.

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all his work which God created and made."

Do you not know? Have you not heard?
The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth
Does not become weary or tired.
His understanding is unsearchable.

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

What is God's 7th Day Rest = the only Begotten of the Father, full of Grace and Truth

Have you never read this =
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

I get what you are saying, however, you are making a host of assumptions there. I had already agreed with you that Christians have found rest in Christ, do why do you assume I haven't?
Secondly, I agree that God doesn't need to rest. Therefore the designation at creation that the 7th day was too be a day of rest must have been for someone else, and because it was on the 8th day God blessed the 7th day and sanctified it, making it holy, them it must have been all the following weekly Sabbaths that were so designated. For who? Adam and his descendants of course, in harmony with what Jesus said when he said "the Sabbath was made for man"...anthropos... Mankind.
Thirdly, you assume that if Israel had found rest in Christ, God would have instructed Joshua to cancel the Sabbath.
And finally, you attempt to link the Sabbath with sacrifice. This i also object to on the grounds that the s Sabbath was established at creation, before the fall and therefore having no need of any association of sacrifice.
Oh, and a little PS. The final assumption, though not articulated but certainly intimated, is that any observation of Sabbath keeping by Christians is a work designed to earn salvation. Phooey.

 

[Taken]

Revelation 17:11.

OK, TY.

Just as the Devil levels accusations at us, the anti-Christ perjures our flesh. If you don't understand what a "dart" of the Devil is, you won't understand what a "spiritual mark" is. It's something that happens in the spirit; like attachment or detachment as according to Buddhism (its not a physical thing). How do you avoid it? You say "if my flesh has to die, I will let it die, in Jesus Name Amen". It's important, that you do it as early as possible too, as it can lead to slavery to sin.

Ok, TY.

 

[David in NJ]

I get what you are saying, however, you are making a host of assumptions there. I had already agreed with you that Christians have found rest in Christ, do why do you assume I haven't?
Secondly, I agree that God doesn't need to rest. Therefore the designation at creation that the 7th day was too be a day of rest must have been for someone else, and because it was on the 8th day God blessed the 7th day and sanctified it, making it holy, them it must have been all the following weekly Sabbaths that were so designated. For who? Adam and his descendants of course, in harmony with what Jesus said when he said "the Sabbath was made for man"...anthropos... Mankind.
Thirdly, you assume that if Israel had found rest in Christ, God would have instructed Joshua to cancel the Sabbath.
And finally, you attempt to link the Sabbath with sacrifice. This i also object to on the grounds that the s Sabbath was established at creation, before the fall and therefore having no need of any association of sacrifice.
Oh, and a little PS. The final assumption, though not articulated but certainly intimated, is that any observation of Sabbath keeping by Christians is a work designed to earn salvation. Phooey.

Good Morning,

You said: "This i also object to on the grounds that the Sabbath was established at creation, before the fall and therefore having no need of any association of sacrifice."

God says:
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life,
the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. - Revelation 13:8

God Rested on the 7th Day because it speaks of Christ = Christ is our Full and Complete Rest in God = no day of the week can complete it.

Christ Fulfills all OT & NT requirements for REST & SALVATION in order for us to please God.

This is why the scripture says:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

7th Day Salvation is Christ alone. No sabbath observance can complete our salvation OR add to it.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Peace

 

[Timtofly]

Yes or no does a literal mark contradict the verse below?

Romans 10:13

for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

No. Those with the mark never called on the name of the Lord, nor believed, nor accepted the Atonement of the Cross. Having a literal mark has nothing to do with any verse you quote about accepting God's free gift of Salvation.

The mark is the literal proof one has ultimately rejected the gift of God. God places the mark when God removes one's name from the Lamb's book of life. Every one knows God placed it because it is a literal expiration mark showing to the world Salvation has expired and no longer viable.

Satan only let's those marked by God to move freely through his empire and economy.

 

[Timtofly]

Okay, this is probably a conversation for another time and place, although I guess it was inevitable it would come. All I'll say at this point is
A. I agree that all in Christ are, or at should be, at rest in Him.
B. Being at rest in Him spiritually however, doesn't answer the mental assent and physical response to God's authority as expressed in the 4th commandment. There is nowhere in scripture intimating that the actual physical 7th day is not still holy.

The 4th Commandment is: Thou shalt work 6 days/ 6,000 years.

No one Remembers the Sabbath Day from Genesis 2. That was the first Day of Adonia, the first Day of the Lord. Guess what; it was also 1,000 years like the last Day of the Lord will be. The whole point of Satan's deception was to make people forget the Torah, and follow western science that came up with a 14 billion year "old" universe, and that it was evolution that changed the earth, instead of the Flood of Noah's day. Satan has spoon fed fake knowledge starting with the Greeks around 500BC.

 

[Timtofly]

I'm sorry you have found it unhelpful to debate.

I think the problem is that basically we work from the admonition not to take the mark, backwards and then look for a reason not to take it - when really we should be asking God "Lord, deliver me from taking the mark, whatever Your reason was, in Jesus Name Amen". Then it becomes a matter of personal sin, not conjecture about the power of the anti-Christ (to make repentance unnecessary).

It is only post trib positions that have an issue. The church is not even going to be on earth at that time.

Why people are concerned about salvation, after God has removed the gift is beyond me. The only act of salvation at that time is to have one's head chopped off. That is something you cannot take back once it happens. Neither is receiving the mark.

It won't be about sinning nor accidently making the wrong choice.