Is believing/faith a work ?

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brightfame52

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kermos

  • then the Lord makes it utterly clear that belief/faith is "the work of God" inside of the children of God,

Exactly, Paul indicated that as well, the elect believe according to the mighty Power Work of God Eph 1:19-20

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places
 
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Kermos

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Please start with post 665.

a) the context already has Christ telling those people YOU believe which makes no sense on the part of CHrist if they could not possible believe.

b) places in the Bible God has commanded MAN TO BELIEVE (Acts 16:31) and why command men to do the work of believing if God is to do that work or man is unable to choose to believe? How could Christ justly condemned those in Matt 6:30 for having "little faith" if God is solely in control of men's belief. Their insufficient faith would be a culpability on God's part.

People believe in Jesus because Jesus causes people to believe in Jesus (John 6:29); therefore, people with ears to hear will believe in Jesus (Romans 10:17) by hearing the issuance of the command to "believe".

God's Commands Distinguished From Man's Ability​


A Command Does Not Convey Ability To Obey Or Disobey Unless Explicitly Stated In The Command​

The command issued by the Creator reveals fruit of the creature; in other words, God's commands exposes man's obedience or man's disobedience.

The command of God states God's rule for man, to reward or punish, to bless or to curse.

The command of God does not confer an ability to obey for man, and the command of God does not confer an ability to disobey for man; unless, God's command explicitly confers ability in the command or elsewhere in scripture, then such ability does not exist; otherwise, for a person to claim the ability exists is the person's heart wickedly adding to scripture.

An example from the Torah:


The Word of God records the command of God to Adam "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17).

Scripture reveals that Adam disobeyed God's command (Genesis 3:6); therefore, scripture reveals Adam's ability to disobey God.

That was the single command issued by God to Adam, and Adam disobeyed; moreover, no account of Adam obeying a command of God exists in scripture.
No scripture reveals Adam's ability to obey God.

The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).

The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1-25 Genesis 3:1-24).

God did not say in God's command to Adam "you have the ability to obey" nor did God say "you have the ability to choose to obey".

Adam did not have the ability to freewill choose toward God.

Commands Embedded In Conditional Logic Statements​

Scripture contains many conditional logic statements. A conditional logic statement is normally an IF/THEN construct.

In linguistics, logic, semantics, and reality the established fact is that an IF/THEN construct follows this pattern:

IF condition THEN predicate
The condition results in a true state or false state. If, and only if, the condition results in a true state does the predicate get executed.

An IF-THEN construct merely exposes whether a condition is true or false; consequently, an if/then statement does not inherently convey ability to produce a true state for the condition.

An IF/THEN construct exposes a potential, current, or previously taken PATH along with the PATH's resultant IMPACT.

So, an IF-THEN construct imposes a conditionl expression and a predicate, for example,

IF ACTION THEN RESULT
Moreover, no conveyance of ability exists intrinsically within the if-then construct.

In scripture, an ACTION represents fruit for the the Word of God says "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15-20) and "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

In language, an IF/THEN statement requires a qualifier to indicate choice, for example, "if you choose chocolate then you eat chocolate" thus the qualifier in the conditional is "choose", but the conditional still does not convey ability to "choose" which such conveyance of ability to "choose" necessitates additional language connected with the IF-THEN statement, such as "you have the ability to choose" since the predicate cannot be executed in the absence of a supply of chocolate.

In Scripture, "you have the ability to choose God" is never expressed nor implied, yet, on the contrary to such a statement of "choose", the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) with no exceptions to the stated choosing while applying to all believers in all time (John 17:20).

These facts of IF/THEN statements do not disappear in scripture.

An IF/THEN can be expressed likewise as:

IF you_do_this that_will_happen
Thus, the conditional expresses an action/fruit in the condition (you_do_this), and the effectual result in the predicate (that_will_happen).
A conditional does not convey ability to the recipient of the conditional.

The same goes for a command, that is, a command does not convey ability to carry out the command.

For example, the command "do not do this" does not inherently grant the capability to comply with the command.

Neither a conditional nor a command convey choice unless specifically stated.

Continued to post 664
 
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Kermos

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Continued from post 663

a) the context already has Christ telling those people YOU believe which makes no sense on the part of CHrist if they could not possible believe.

b) places in the Bible God has commanded MAN TO BELIEVE (Acts 16:31) and why command men to do the work of believing if God is to do that work or man is unable to choose to believe? How could Christ justly condemned those in Matt 6:30 for having "little faith" if God is solely in control of men's belief. Their insufficient faith would be a culpability on God's part.

Commandment Exposes Righteousness and Wickedness - Not Inherent Capability Conveyance​

This all relates as to why Paul didn't write that he'd just choose to stop coveting, instead Paul indicates that he became aware of his sinfulness through the commandment. Here is that which Paul wrote:

"I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." (Romans 7:7).

"sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind" (Romans 7:8).

"where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20).

"the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation" (Romans 1:16).

"How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" (Romans 10:14).

Behold, the Word of God is conveyed via communication AND the gospel, the good news, the Word of God is the power of God for salvation!

A practical example from Scripture is the account of Cain and Abel.

"Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not [your countenance] be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it." (Genesis 4:6-7)

God did not say that Cain "could" do anything.

The conditional logic statement does not indicate ability for Cain, rather the conditional logic statement indicates an action.

We know that Cain's action was to "not do well" because it is written "Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him" (Genesis 4:8).

Action. Not choice. Not decision. But action is written.

With respect to the Law, the commandments, the Apostle Peter said "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10), so people are incapable of keeping the commandments to God's satisfaction (James 2:10); furthermore, the Word states "And I also, I have given to them statutes not good, and judgments by which they do not live" (Ezekiel 20:25) of the Israelites, so clearly the apostle is in accord with God.

The apostles tell us that the Law is for our instruction, and that we know what sin is because of the Law, and we are guilty before God apart from our Savior.

A Biblical Declaration Of Ability And Inability - Capability Examined​

Lord Jesus declares "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The first clause decisively declares that men cannot choose Jesus; in other words, men do not have the ability to accept Jesus. The first clause is "you did not choose Me".

The second clause absolutely declares that God chooses men. The second clause is "but I chose you", and this unto salvation as well for Jesus also said "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19); in other words, God has the exclusive ability to accept men.

Commands Expose Good And Evil - Not Inherent Capability Conveyance - A Hypothetical Example​

A hypothetical example, on Monday evening you take your lovely wife a hot bowl of delicious oatmeal while she's sitting on the couch, and she places the bowl on a pillow on her lap. Then your talking and toddling son sees the bowl of delicous oatmeal, and he wants some, so he shoots across the floor to the couch, and he excitedly grabs the rim of the hot bowl letting out a shrieking scream of pain from the hot bowl.

After applying soothing cream to the wound, both you and your wife explain the difference between hot and cold. You explain that hot can cause burns and pain. "Do not touch hot things" you command your son.

You continue by declaring "Your mommy and I can work around hot things to prepare and serve food, but you cannot, my love". The sobbing stops, and you all eat your dinner.

On Tuesday morning, you have the iron skillet on the stove, the gas fire keeping the iron skillet sizzling hot for a family pancake breakfast. The top of the stove radiates very HOT too, so you are sensitive to your son's current absence from the kitchen.

Your son toddles into the kitchen. You say "honey, the stove is hot, hotter than the bowl of oatmeal last night. If you touch the stove, then you'll get burned again. If you stay over there, then you'll be just fine." Then you smell that the pancake is about to burn unless you flip it, so you scrape the pancake, raise it, flip it, and you watch it drop - but as it drops, you see your precious son's hand grasp the extremely hot stove iron grill flame cover. In a flash, you dunk your excruciatingly pained and screaming child's hand in a glass of cold water, add ice, turn off the stove, examine the wound through the glass, and ...

The morals of the story:

  1. Monday night's command did not convey ability. The command expressed safe action - or said another way safe inaction.
  2. Monday night's declaration conveyed capabilities being that you could work around hot items while your son could not work around hot items. It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing.
  3. Tuesday morning's IF/THEN logic conditionals did not convey ability. Each conditional expressed the results of actions.
  4. You cared deeply enough to help.
  5. Your son was driven by his desires - his lusts, and he disregarded your instruction; in other words, his lusts were manifest by his action.
  6. Your son's nature was to defy you despite (1) the command, (2) the declaration, and (3) the conditionals; in other words, the fruit of his nature were visible.
  7. Your son was in rebellion against you.
Point 2 is a parallel - a remote shadow at best, to when the Lord Jesus' says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, also John 15:13-15 about love and friends). It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing; in other words, men cannot choose God while God chooses men.

Point 4 is analagous, a shadow at best, to how the Father in heaven causes the "sun to rise on [the] evil and [the] good, and sends rain on [the] righteous and [the] unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45).

Points 5 and 6 are analagous to the sin nature as default nature (the main document of this essay contains more detail about the nature of man).

The example is concluded.

Commands do not convey ability; rather, commands expose the desires of the person, more specifically the heart of the person.

Return to main essay "Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor"
 

Kermos

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27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1) Jesus settled the issue once and for all time that one must WORK for the spiritual food that endures unto everlasting life. This simply means no work = no everlasting life.

=============================

Phil 2:12-13
...snip...

God works in those who obey Him. God commands a man to believe and that man obediently believes, then it can clealry be seen GOd is working in that man by that man's obedience to God.

...snip... Coffman Commentary (my emp)

Acts of Righteousness by a mere human, such as "work for" "the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27) is exclusively fruit of the Holy Spirit of God (John 3:21) because Lord Jesus says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

The "obeyed" in Philippians 2:12 is governed by the same "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:31) Truth (John 14:6) proclaimed above, so Paul's use of "obeyed" and "work out" are both caused by God and these words represent fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

Children of God discern and understand spiritual things, for example, Paul established that the matter in Philippians 2:12 is dependent upon the matter in Philippians 2:13 because the first word of Philippians 2:13 is "for" as in "because" which literally means "the cause being", so we find:

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
(Philippians 2:12-13 - there is only one "for" occurrence, and that "for" starts Philippians 2:13)

As is clearly evident, in the selfsame passage, Paul established that "obeyed" and "work out" are God manipulating the "will" of us Christians and God causing we Christians to "work" according to God's good pleasure (Philippians 2:12-13)

Did you see the word "work" in Philippians 2:12 and the second occurrence of "work" in Philippians 2:13? The first occurrence of "work" in Philippians 2:13 governs the second occurrence of "work" in Philippians 2:13 which in turn governs the word "work" in Philippians 2:12; therefore, "the work of God" lovingly governs and controls and causes us Christians to work/act/have fruit.

Your first reply to me was a your response to a post that essentially addressed this, but you just haphazardly neglected the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6).

2) those people asked what shall WE DO that WE WORK the works of God. In response to their question Jesus gave them a work to do, that work being to believe. Jesus told them this is the work of God that YOU believe on Him. Jesus did not say God will believe for you but Jesus YOU do the work of believing.

4) the idea that God is the One doing the work of believing for man or man has no free will choice to choose to believe creates a host of problems:

d) if God does the work of believing yet I am lost in unbelief, then God is culpable for my condemnation for failing to do this work for me. And if God does the work of believing for you but not for me, then God is showing respect of person for you over me when God is not a respecter of persons (Acts 10:34-35)

You are correct that "Jesus did not say God will believe for you", and I've repeatedly conveyed this on this site.

Now, Jesus does say that God causes the "you" to "believe" in "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

When you wrote "YOU do the work of believing", then your heart (Matthew 15:16-19) adulterated the Word of God into "this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass). By God's grace I proclaim to you that the Word of God says "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

NO SCRIPTURE STATES MAN HAS A FREE-WILL TO CHOOSE JESUS UNTO SALVATION, SO SELF-WILLED PERSONS REVILE KING JESUS (2 PETER 2:9-10) BY THEIR THOUGHTS THAT THEY CHOOSE JESUS DESPITE LORD JESUS SAYING "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16).

3) the fact that believing is a work of God means God is the source of the work, the genesis of the work that God has given to man to perform.

The Lord's proclamation of "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) intentional grammatical structure results in "you believing in Him whom He has sent" being the sentence subject, and "is the work of God" is the predicate, and the word "is" is the verb in "is the work of God", and the direct object of the sentence is "the work of God", so the spiritual food that the Son of Man gives (John 6:27) is that God controls the "you believing in Him whom He has sent" subject of the sentence (John6:29).

Every single one of us Christians believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is fully the work of God (John 6:29), both the "you" and the "believing" in John 6:29 are caused/created/maintained by God, by God's grace for God's glory.

Just as Timothy "worketh the work of the Lord" means the Lord was the source of the work given to Timothy and Paul to do. If I do the 'work of the employer' does not mean the employer does the work but that the employer is the source of the work given to me to do. If the employer does all the work, what does he need me for?

You analogy fails because your employer is not the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God who reigns in the affairs of man from generation to generation (Daniel 4: 34-35).

a) the context already has Christ telling those people YOU believe which makes no sense on the part of CHrist if they could not possible believe.

b) places in the Bible God has commanded MAN TO BELIEVE (Acts 16:31) and why command men to do the work of believing if God is to do that work or man is unable to choose to believe? How could Christ justly condemned those in Matt 6:30 for having "little faith" if God is solely in control of men's belief. Their insufficient faith would be a culpability on God's part.

People believe in Jesus because Jesus causes people to believe in Jesus (John 6:29); therefore, people with ears to hear will believe in Jesus (Romans 10:17) by hearing the issuance of the command to "believe".

This point is further addressed in post 663 in this thread due to post size limitations.

c)Heb 3:12 - "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." Do they become unbelievers and lost being separated from God because God quit doing the work of believing for them?

Nothing in Hebrews 3:12 states that anyone ever completes the process of "departing from the living God".

Moreover, the One True Holy God is great to secure the children of God in salvation for the Word of God says:

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
(John 10:27-28)

Do not be deceived, God locks we Christians in God's blessing of being saved from the wrath of God.

e) in Exodus 4:1-9 why would God have miraculous signs to be performed to induce a belief in Israel if they cannot possibly choose to believe?
v8 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign. And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land."
Why would the Lord say "IF" they will not believe if the Lord solely determines if they will believe or not?

It is written "whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope" (Romans 15:4).
 
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marks

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The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

  1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
    1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
  2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


  3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

    A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

    The mind is :

    (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

    Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

    So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

    Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

    So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

    Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

    But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.
Romans 4:2-5 KJV
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

No, Faith is not a work. Believing is not working.

Much love!
 

Gottservant

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No, Faith is not a work. Believing is not working.

Much love!
Faith is as a work; keeping faith together with work, works out our Salvation.

If I said "I have Salvation without work" I would be a liar; if I said "I have work without Salvation" I would be reprobate.

But if my God says "this one has done as I commanded" surely, I have a reward in faith, that extends to work.
 

marks

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Faith is as a work; keeping faith together with work, works out our Salvation.

If I said "I have Salvation without work" I would be a liar; if I said "I have work without Salvation" I would be reprobate.

But if my God says "this one has done as I commanded" surely, I have a reward in faith, that extends to work.
I don't really understand what you are saying here.

True faith leads us to be different, and works that come from that faith will result. But faith and works are plainly contrasted in a few different passages, so then the Bible does not treat faith as a work.

We are saved by grace through faith, not of works. That's pretty clear, isn't it?

Much love!
 

Gottservant

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I don't really understand what you are saying here.

True faith leads us to be different, and works that come from that faith will result. But faith and works are plainly contrasted in a few different passages, so then the Bible does not treat faith as a work.

We are saved by grace through faith, not of works. That's pretty clear, isn't it?

Much love!,
We may be saved by faith, but we only keep our salvation if we work,

It is the desire of the Holy Spirit to work out our salvation, within us - it is He who prompts us to do the work that we do.

It's like someone writing a cheque, the cheque passes for money, but it is not explicitly money - as long as you want money from the cheque, you have to get it exchanged (that means trusting the bank, coming to the bank during opening hours and waiting in line, and so on).

What you are saying is "I have the cheque, don't I have the money?" in spirit you do but in truth you lack insight as to what manner you do; the problem for me is, I risk saying "I know the cheque needs to be exchanged, but I will think about it after I have worked with it (that is, worked with my salvation)" really I can't work with the cheque unless it has been exchanged, and put in the bank for interest or something.

Basically I am not saying "have you worked yet?", I'm saying "have you made work a priority yet?"
 

marks

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We may be saved by faith, but we only keep our salvation if we work,
If that is true, then we are saved by our working.

It's like saying, you start with a gas car, but after that first inch, you must pedal. So then, how was it you made it to grandma's house? Your pedaling.

Much love!
 

marks

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What you are saying is "I have the cheque, don't I have the money?" in spirit you do but in truth you lack insight as to what manner you do;
Not so. You do yourself a disservice to think this is what I mean.

We are born again in the pattern of God Himself. The new man, the inner man, then must be trained in controlling the old man, the outer man, the flesh.

Much love!
 

Gottservant

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If that is true, then we are saved by our working.

It's like saying, you start with a gas car, but after that first inch, you must pedal. So then, how was it you made it to grandma's house? Your pedaling.

Much love!
No, you are not getting it. After you start with a gas car, you must steer.
 

Gottservant

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Not so. You do yourself a disservice to think this is what I mean.

We are born again in the pattern of God Himself. The new man, the inner man, then must be trained in controlling the old man, the outer man, the flesh.

Much love!
Now you are talking sense. The old man needs to learn to receive instruction, that's true. That instruction is there, when we get to Heaven. What you will have difficulty with, probably, is that having received instruction, the old man must learn to serve the new man.
 

marks

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No, you are not getting it. After you start with a gas car, you must steer.
I'm getting it . . . but I understand this differently.

God saves us through a true faith. Having a true faith means we will be different, and will do works of faith, however, those works won't save us or keep us saved, that is by God's grace through faith.

If we don't have a true faith we won't be different, we won't do works of faith, and we won't be saved.

And . . . shouldn't we let God do the steering?

Much love!
 

Gottservant

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Having a true faith means we will be different, and will do works of faith,
We may do work in addition to our faith...

however, those works won't save us or keep us saved,
The works are all the more reason to believe we are saved, but they can't substitute our salvation.

that is by God's grace through faith.
(By God's grace) both the works and the spirit of them!

That's something you can't do, with faith on its own, but if its not working, you need more faith!
 

brightfame52

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Romans 4:2-5 KJV
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

No, Faith is not a work. Believing is not working.

Much love!
Yes believing is a work, no scripture says that believing isnt a work, because its something done.
 

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
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out in the woods
Please start with post 665.



People believe in Jesus because Jesus causes people to believe in Jesus (John 6:29); therefore, people with ears to hear will believe in Jesus (Romans 10:17) by hearing the issuance of the command to "believe".

God's Commands Distinguished From Man's Ability​


A Command Does Not Convey Ability To Obey Or Disobey Unless Explicitly Stated In The Command​

The command issued by the Creator reveals fruit of the creature; in other words, God's commands exposes man's obedience or man's disobedience.

The command of God states God's rule for man, to reward or punish, to bless or to curse.

The command of God does not confer an ability to obey for man, and the command of God does not confer an ability to disobey for man; unless, God's command explicitly confers ability in the command or elsewhere in scripture, then such ability does not exist; otherwise, for a person to claim the ability exists is the person's heart wickedly adding to scripture.

An example from the Torah:

The Word of God records the command of God to Adam "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17).​
Scripture reveals that Adam disobeyed God's command (Genesis 3:6); therefore, scripture reveals Adam's ability to disobey God.​
That was the single command issued by God to Adam, and Adam disobeyed; moreover, no account of Adam obeying a command of God exists in scripture.​
No scripture reveals Adam's ability to obey God.​
The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).​
The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1-25 Genesis 3:1-24).​
God did not say in God's command to Adam "you have the ability to obey" nor did God say "you have the ability to choose to obey".​
Adam did not have the ability to freewill choose toward God.​

Commands Embedded In Conditional Logic Statements​

Scripture contains many conditional logic statements. A conditional logic statement is normally an IF/THEN construct.

In linguistics, logic, semantics, and reality the established fact is that an IF/THEN construct follows this pattern:


The condition results in a true state or false state. If, and only if, the condition results in a true state does the predicate get executed.

An IF-THEN construct merely exposes whether a condition is true or false; consequently, an if/then statement does not inherently convey ability to produce a true state for the condition.

An IF/THEN construct exposes a potential, current, or previously taken PATH along with the PATH's resultant IMPACT.

So, an IF-THEN construct imposes a conditionl expression and a predicate, for example,


Moreover, no conveyance of ability exists intrinsically within the if-then construct.

In scripture, an ACTION represents fruit for the the Word of God says "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15-20) and "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

In language, an IF/THEN statement requires a qualifier to indicate choice, for example, "if you choose chocolate then you eat chocolate" thus the qualifier in the conditional is "choose", but the conditional still does not convey ability to "choose" which such conveyance of ability to "choose" necessitates additional language connected with the IF-THEN statement, such as "you have the ability to choose" since the predicate cannot be executed in the absence of a supply of chocolate.

In Scripture, "you have the ability to choose God" is never expressed nor implied, yet, on the contrary to such a statement of "choose", the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) with no exceptions to the stated choosing while applying to all believers in all time (John 17:20).

These facts of IF/THEN statements do not disappear in scripture.

An IF/THEN can be expressed likewise as:


Thus, the conditional expresses an action/fruit in the condition (you_do_this), and the effectual result in the predicate (that_will_happen).
A conditional does not convey ability to the recipient of the conditional.

The same goes for a command, that is, a command does not convey ability to carry out the command.

For example, the command "do not do this" does not inherently grant the capability to comply with the command.

Neither a conditional nor a command convey choice unless specifically stated.

Continued to post 664
Commands imply both ability and accountability. It would be nothing but evil and saditic on God's part to command of man something impossible then eternally condemned man for not doing the impossible. In the OT we have an example of an evil king called Pharaoh who took from the Israelites the materials required to make brick but no reduction in bricks made (Ex 5:15-16). God' character is not such as the evil Pharaoh. It is simply SENSELESS for God to command a person to do the impossible as it would be EQUALLY SENSLESS for an employer to require an employee to life a 8 ton truck using nothing but his own strength. The employer would be considered insane, sensless, evilto require such by men and so would God to command such SENSELESS things

If man has no free will then the only conclusion can be an evil, sadistic god.

Joshua 24:15 men do have the ability to choose God.

A Calvinist Profess Wayne Grudem wrote:
"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true, because Scripture teaches them. But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass. Here Scripture is silent, and we have to agree with Berkhof that ultimately “the problem of God’s relation to sin remains a mystery" (Systematic Theology, p.331.)

The errors of Calvinism creates problems that do not even exist. If God caused, ordained a person to sin then God does have culpability in that person sinning. No way around that.