More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

[WPM]

I'm always amazed at those that look for the magic verse that will prove when Jesus comes. Here it is, right in the text so you can see.

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Just admit you have nothing. Pretrib has to be taught. It is not in the Book. The reality is: this 2-future-comings theory was invented by Emmanuel Lacunza (or Manuel de Lacunza y Diaz), a Chilean theologian of Spanish descent (born in Santiago, Chile, July 19, 1731, and died at Imola, Italy, June 17, 1801). He became a member of the Jesuit order in 1747 at the age of 16.

Lacunza wrote this book under the assumed name of Rabbi Ben-Ezra as a "converted Jew". The book was finished in 1790, and then circulated in manuscript form before it was published at Cadiz, Spain, in 1812. This was during the time of Cortez in Spain, and after Cortez the book was suppressed, and as much as possible withdrawn from circulation. Lacunza died in June 1801, before the book was ever published in book form.

Rev. Edward Irving, a Presbyter of the Church of Scotland, who had been the assistant to Dr. Chalmers in Glasgow, translated this book of Lacunza from the Spanish in 1826, and it was published in English by L.B. Seely and Son, Fleet Street, London, in 1827.

This is the origin of Pretrib. It is not in the Bible, as your avoidance has proved. You have zero biblical evidence, only speculations and theories.

 

[The Light]

What verse or verses prove this assumption?

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 12
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Luke 17
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

 

[The Light]

This is all taught theology. No one one would ever go there of themselves. Many of us were deceived by this nonsense and are now enlightened.

You are yet to show us one single proof-text. That is because you have nothing. Instead of admitting that you stubbornly throw out what you have been indoctrinated. You are married to a man-made doctrine. You need to repent and abandon it. You have proved by your failure to present one single passage that teaches a rapture, a 7-years trib or a 3rd coming that this is indeed a man-made Jesuit doctrine.

There are a plethora of verses and yet the blind cannot see. You group everything into one false idea instead of reading the Word and believing the Word. If you had any wisdom, you would be watching for Him as instructed.

 

[The Light]

Just admit you have nothing. Pretrib has to be taught. It is not in the Book. The reality is: this 2-future-comings theory was invented by Emmanuel Lacunza (or Manuel de Lacunza y Diaz), a Chilean theologian of Spanish descent (born in Santiago, Chile, July 19, 1731, and died at Imola, Italy, June 17, 1801). He became a member of the Jesuit order in 1747 at the age of 16.

Lacunza wrote this book under the assumed name of Rabbi Ben-Ezra as a "converted Jew". The book was finished in 1790, and then circulated in manuscript form before it was published at Cadiz, Spain, in 1812. This was during the time of Cortez in Spain, and after Cortez the book was suppressed, and as much as possible withdrawn from circulation. Lacunza died in June 1801, before the book was ever published in book form.

Rev. Edward Irving, a Presbyter of the Church of Scotland, who had been the assistant to Dr. Chalmers in Glasgow, translated this book of Lacunza from the Spanish in 1826, and it was published in English by L.B. Seely and Son, Fleet Street, London, in 1827.

This is the origin of Pretrib. It is not in the Bible, as your avoidance has proved. You have zero biblical evidence, only speculations and theories.

LOL. Avoidance? All you have to do is read the Word and you should come to the conclusion that God is not finished with Israel. The fullness of the Gentiles has to come in before part of Israel can see. There is a time of Jacobs trouble in the near future but the blind cannot discern what is clearly written.

 

[WPM]

LOL. Avoidance? All you have to do is read the Word and you should come to the conclusion that God is not finished with Israel. The fullness of the Gentiles has to come in before part of Israel can see. There is a time of Jacobs trouble in the near future but the blind cannot discern what is clearly written.

You have been taught so wrong. This is all man's reasoning.

Pretribbers rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it to some imaginary seven-year period at the end, to support their end-time beliefs.

A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.

Jeremiah 1:3 “It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.”

Jeremiah 2:27-28: “they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us. But where are thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for according to the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.”

Jeremiah 8:14-15: “assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD. We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble! "

Jeremiah 11:10-12: “They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.”

Jeremiah 14:7: “O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name's sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee. O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble.”

Jeremiah 15:2: “And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.”

Jeremiah 20:4: “For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will make thee a terror to thyself, and to all thy friends: and they shall fall by the sword of their enemies, and thine eyes shall behold it: and I will give all Judah into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall carry them captive into Babylon, and shall slay them with the sword.”

Jeremiah 25:9-11: “Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Jeremiah 29:1: “Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon."

 

[WPM]

LOL. Avoidance? All you have to do is read the Word and you should come to the conclusion that God is not finished with Israel. The fullness of the Gentiles has to come in before part of Israel can see. There is a time of Jacobs trouble in the near future but the blind cannot discern what is clearly written.

Jeremiah 30:3-7: “For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. "

Jeremiah 30:10-11: “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

This was speaking of Babylon at the time. It reveals a consistent scriptural truth, the vessels God uses to chasten His people, He then casts away. It was only the last few books that were post-exile. As promised, Israel after chastisement was delivered. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 32:44: “Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.”

Jeremiah 51:1: “Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about. Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine: and spare ye not her young men; destroy ye utterly all her host. Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.”

If this was a legal case it would be a closed case. I believe it is absolutely water-tight. The lawyer would simply say: “I rest my case.” I don’t believe there is any question that an objective analyze of this book would come to any other conclusion than the fact that Jeremiah is describing Israel’s captivity in Babylon in his day. There is no mention (or context) of end-times in the prophet’s writings on this matter. Quite the opposite.

The day of trouble that is being highlighted happened long ago in the old covenant period. It does not relate to some supposed future period after Christ returns and saves Israel. Whoever is not saved when Jesus comes is immediately and eternally destroyed.

 

[WPM]

LOL. Avoidance? All you have to do is read the Word and you should come to the conclusion that God is not finished with Israel. The fullness of the Gentiles has to come in before part of Israel can see. There is a time of Jacobs trouble in the near future but the blind cannot discern what is clearly written.

Why would we need a rapture and a 7-years trib and a 3rd coming to facilitate the ingathering of Israel? That is another lie Pretrib teaches. This is all extra-biblical. You have no Scripture to support your claim of these 2 future comings. All we have is worthless human-reasoning. Where is this all taught in Rom 9-11?

 

[rwb]

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 12
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Luke 17
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

You are confusing how by faith the sheep hear His voice calling them in this Messianic age, with Him calling us to meet Him in the air at the end of this age. John is a warning to those professing to be His sheep that many will pretend to be His sheep who are not. Many pretenders say they belong to the spiritual Kingdom of God, represented on earth by the Church, who will be cast out when He comes the second time for His true sheep (faithful).

You haven't yet explained why the author of Hebrews tells us Christ shall appear the second time, and says nothing about a third appearance?

Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[rwb]

There are a plethora of verses and yet the blind cannot see. You group everything into one false idea instead of reading the Word and believing the Word. If you had any wisdom, you would be watching for Him as instructed.

If there are so many verses to prove your doctrine, bring them forth that we may all discuss them?????

 

[The Light]

You haven't yet explained why the author of Hebrews tells us Christ shall appear the second time, and says nothing about a third appearance?

Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I think the verse speaks for itself. UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM He shall appear a second time without sin UNTO SALVATION. I'm not sure you really understand that, as if you did, you would not ask this question.

 

[rwb]

I think the verse speaks for itself. UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM He shall appear a second time without sin UNTO SALVATION. I'm not sure you really understand that, as if you did, you would not ask this question.

Yep, He will appear THE SECOND TIME unto salvation! NOT A THIRD TIME! Since Christ has already come the first time, that means He will come only ONE MORE TIME, not at least two more times that you ASSUME!

 

[WPM]

Yep, He will appear THE SECOND TIME unto salvation! NOT A THIRD TIME! Since Christ has already come the first time, that means He will come only ONE MORE TIME, not at least two more times that you ASSUME!

Exactly bro. All he has is what he has been taught. He has no Scripture to support his beliefs. Pretribbers do not have one single proof text.

 

[The Light]

Yep, He will appear THE SECOND TIME unto salvation! NOT A THIRD TIME! Since Christ has already come the first time, that means He will come only ONE MORE TIME, not at least two more times that you ASSUME!

Let me give you a laugh. I actually think the Word says He comes 5 more times and at the very least 4 more times.

 

[The Light]

Exactly bro. All he has is what he has been taught. He has no Scripture to support his beliefs. Pretribbers do not have one single proof text.

All I know is what the Word says. I can't get the blind to see. Despite the clear warning to watch and be ready, it's obvious you are not in the watching mode.

 

[WPM]

All I know is what the Word says. I can't get the blind to see. Despite the clear warning to watch and be ready, it's obvious you are not in the watching mode.

Ahhh. Name calling now. That is always the Premil default when their beliefs have been exposed and they have no answer. Why not be honest and admit that you have no proof-text that teaches a rapture followed by a 7-years trib followed by a 3rd coming? If you had one then you would give it. You have nothing! The reader can see that by following the discussion. Many of us were deceived by that theory but have come to the truth with an open mind.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

This has been the most outstanding discussion of millennialism of maintained high standard I have yet encountered, and I think I have seen most. Special mention of WPM nevertheless even the wrong side kept up acceptable attitude. God bless you all.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think the verse speaks for itself. UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM He shall appear a second time without sin UNTO SALVATION. I'm not sure you really understand that, as if you did, you would not ask this question.

Jesus will appear a second time, in fire and final judgement (The End)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Let me give you a laugh. I actually think the Word says He comes 5 more times and at the very least 4 more times.

Sure, Big Smiles!

The very reason your eschatology isn't taken seriously

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The day of trouble that is being highlighted happened long ago in the old covenant period. It does not relate to some supposed future period after Christ returns and saves Israel. Whoever is not saved when Jesus comes is immediately and eternally destroyed.

AMEN

 

[The Light]

Ahhh. Name calling now. That is always the Premil default when their beliefs have been exposed and they have no answer. Why not be honest and admit that you have no proof-text that teaches a rapture followed by a 7-years trib followed by a 3rd coming? If you had one then you would give it. You have nothing! The reader can see that by following the discussion. Many of us were deceived by that theory but have come to the truth with an open mind.

It's not like I haven't been posting verses. You seem unable to understand them. You keep looking for this one single verse that gives the answer you are looking for about when He is coming and you seem unable to believe what He tells you. Here is why you can't find the verse that proves when he is coming, and yet you do not understand.

Matthew 24
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

BTW. He is coming soon. If you were watching, you would know this.