More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

[WPM]

Don't bother repeating questions I've already answered to *my own satisfaction.*

Exactly! Your "own satisfaction" equates to ongoing avoidance. It is impossible for you to present scriptural support for extra-biblical beliefs, statements or theories. That is because they are not in the Bible. That is all I was highlighting. You prove my thesis. This is classic Premil. What is attributed (in the main) by Premils to Revelation 20 is largely imaginary and fanciful. It is simply not there. Your constant avoidance when pressed reinforces that. It can only be accomplished by jerry-rigging other (mainly Old Testament) Scripture.

 

[WPM]

Rev 20.4 They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 2.26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

I've already given you these verses. Why are you asking again? We differ on what it means to "rule" in the context of those who are potentially unruly and rebellious. The Kingdom of God, for me, is a perfect heavenly kingdom that comes out of heaven from God to impose order on the mortal earth. Those on the earth are not technically in the Kingdom yet, even though its order is being imposed. They must be born again, and then become immortal to fully enter into God's eternal Kingdom.

Much of our sense of the Kingdom of God is assumed to already be understood in the NT. But being that you consider things "Jewish" to be outmoded and irrelevant--in fact *replaced,* you do not view the Kingdom of God the way the Jews did, including the Jews who became believers in Christ.

You like expressing your personal opinions without any actual legitimate Scripture that supports the same. That is because Rev 20 or nowhere else in God's Book supports your speculations. One thing is correct, you are married into the Jewish hope of a carnal earthly Zionist kingdom in which Israel supposedly reigns over "the inferior Gentiles." The temple becomes the focal point of religious worship in the age to come in your faulty scenario.

The kingdom of God that Christ introduced was of a spiritual nature. This absolutely confounded the Pharisees and their misguided earthly carnal concept of the Messianic kingdom. Premils are just following in their footsteps, making the same foolish mistake. You make the exact same mistake that the Pharisees made 2000 years ago with their misguided obsession with (1) racial favoritism, (2) earthly real estate and (3) the idea of a dictatorial Messiah reigning over the Gentile nations with a rod of iron. Because of their flawed perception of the kingdom, the Pharisees ended up rejecting Christ.

While Jesus did not come and meet the religious Jews faulty expectation of a physical territorial kingdom where the Messiah would reign over physical Israel and subjugate the Gentile nations, He did come as a spiritual king reigning over a spiritual kingdom.

The Messianic kingdom is here now. Can I remind you that the Messiah came as king with His kingdom a long time ago? Just because you reject that does not in any way negate it. Your theology causes you to dismiss it. Like the Pharisees, you fail to see the eschatological nature of His First Advent and the kingdom of God. That is the very reason why the Pharisees nailed Him to a tree. When Christ appeared at His first advent, the Jews imagined He would reinstate the now defunct earthly throne of Israel and reign victorious over the physical nation, restoring their ancient borders. The Jewish expectation was a literal visible territorial kingdom of which the Messiah the King would rule over. They believed He would immediately destroy every enemy that withstood the house of Israel and usher in a period of physical and spiritual bliss for Israel.

When someone gets saved they enter into the kingdom of God, which is a spiritual kingdom and incorporates the whole domain over-which the Lord Jesus Christ exercises spiritual control. This kingship refers to the whole realm in which the rule of man becomes the rule of God; it is the area where the law of God and of righteousness are pre-eminent.

 

[The Light]

'They' are the "many saints" raised with Jesus' resurrection, whom He "took captive" when He ascended into heaven 40 days after He resurrected. 'They' ARE NOT Pre-mills raised in a pretrib resurrection (of Americans) raptured away secretly.

So you think that the kings and priests in Revelation 5 that come out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; are those raised with Jesus resurrection. Well that's totally impossible. There is not the slightest of chances that you are correct.

Jesus ministry was to the house of Israel. The good news was not even presented to the Gentiles during Jesus ministry.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Additionally, Paul did not have the road to Damascus experience until 14 years after Jesus death so your point is in error.

There will be a secret pretribulation rapture of the Church. Satan has prepared the world for this disappearance. How is it that you can't see this?

 

[WPM]

I'll keep it as simple as I can. Here is the Church in heaven before the seals are opened.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Here is the second harvest after the tribulation and before the wrath of God.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Here is another view of the harvest that takes place at the 6th seal.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Jesus remains in the clouds and does not touch the earth. He returns to heaven with the great multitude.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Your answer is far from simple, clear or on-topic. Where is your rapture passage followed by a 7-years trib?

 

[The Light]

Your answer is far from simple, clear or on-topic. Where is your rapture passage followed by a 7-years trib?

Rapture passage.

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Warning not to be ignorant of what happens when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

One week needs completing.
Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[WPM]

Rapture passage.

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Warning not to be ignorant of what happens when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

One week needs completing.
Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Hold on!

1. 1 Thessalonians 4 talks about the catching away, yes, we all agree with that. But where is your 7-years trib there (or in any other passage) after the rapture? Hello!
2. Romans 11 makes no mention of a rapture, a 7-years trib or a 3rd coming.
3. As for Daniel 9:

• There is no mention of the Church in Daniel 9.
• There is no mention of tribulation in Daniel 9.
• There is no 7-year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is no rapture mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is no 3rd coming mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that tells us to sever the last 7 years off from this harmonious prophecy relating to Christ’s 1st Coming and propel it 2,000 years into the unknown.
• There is no antichrist mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that says antichrist will make a peace covenant with Israel for 7 years.
• There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that teaches antichrist will break a peace covenant with Israel.
• There are no tribulation saints mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is no mention in Daniel 9 of the rebuilding of a third temple.

It is plain that you do not possess one single proof text for your doctrine. It is obviously a man-made invention belonging to the Left Behind novels.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You like expressing your personal opinions without any actual legitimate Scripture that supports the same. That is because Rev 20 or nowhere else in God's Book supports your speculations. One thing is correct, you are married into the Jewish hope of a carnal earthly Zionist kingdom in which Israel supposedly reigns over "the inferior Gentiles." The temple becomes the focal point of religious worship in the age to come in your faulty scenario.

No, again you err. I do not marry into the Jewish hope of a "carnal" kingdom, nor do I believe Israel reigns over inferior Gentiles. I've told you this many times. You obviously run a little factory in which you turn out the same product without thinking what product was specifically ordered. That's why you ask the same questions over and over, copy and paste, copy and paste, without thinking about any answers that were given.

Worse, you always cast aspersions on those who have a different opinion than you do. You treat the opinions of others with contempt. That's why I consider you so despicable in the way you handle differences. Too bad--that isn't Christianity. That's divisiveness and provocation. I only tell you this not to provoke you but to separate myself from your vitriol. I want nothing to do with this kind of bad spirit.

I'm done with this conversation. I early told you my interest was simply to correct your false claim that Premil believes in a goat-infested world during the Millennium. But your wish is to churn up anger and defensiveness--not interested, brother. When you learn what Christian good will means we can discuss differences with all of the intensity you wish. It simply has to have Christian love in it.

 

[rwb]

There will be a secret pretribulation rapture of the Church. Satan has prepared the world for this disappearance. How is it that you can't see this?

Rapture passage.

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This sure doesn't sound like a secret pre-tribulaton rapture!

 

[WPM]

There will be a secret pretribulation rapture of the Church. Satan has prepared the world for this disappearance. How is it that you can't see this?

Not true. You have been taught wrong!

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 confirms this saying: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s Coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

Revelation 1:7. Speaking of this climactic last day, John says, “Behold, he (Christ) cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him (the Jews): and all kindreds of the earth (the Gentile nations) shall wail because of him”

Contrary to what Dumas teaches, the second coming of Christ is not a secret event. Here we see the most public event of all time – the literal, visible, physical return of the Lord Jesus Christ. This passage unmistakably shows that the glorious Second Advent will be the most amazing public event ever. To such an extent that “every eye shall see him.” The swiftness of Christ’s coming and the speed of the rescue of the saints precludes any possibility of the wicked repenting.

Jesus explains in Matthew 24:27: “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Christ's coming shall be sudden as lightning. What is more sudden and spectacular than lightning? Lightning is not hid! It can be seen by all across the sky. This is no secret snatch in this text.

This secret is only in regards the time of His coming, not the reality of it.

Jesus testifies in Mark 14:62: “I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

Jesus tells us in Matthew 26:64: “Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

This is repeated in Mark 14:62: “ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:26–27: “for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

The teaching of a secret rapture emanates from the defective notion of a pre-tribulation rapture – a doctrine that has been popular since the 1830’s. The notion of a secret rapture emanates from a wrong understanding of the passages relating to the Lord coming as a “thief in the night.” The Scriptural references to Christ coming as a “thief in the night” simply refers to the unexpectedness or suddenness of that event and not to its secretiveness.

 

[WPM]

No, again you err. I do not marry into the Jewish hope of a "carnal" kingdom, nor do I believe Israel reigns over inferior Gentiles. I've told you this many times. You obviously run a little factory in which you turn out the same product without thinking what product was specifically ordered. That's why you ask the same questions over and over, copy and paste, copy and paste, without thinking about any answers that were given.

Worse, you always cast aspersions on those who have a different opinion than you do. You treat the opinions of others with contempt. That's why I consider you so despicable in the way you handle differences. Too bad--that isn't Christianity. That's divisiveness and provocation. I only tell you this not to provoke you but to separate myself from your vitriol. I want nothing to do with this kind of bad spirit.

I'm done with this conversation. I early told you my interest was simply to correct your false claim that Premil believes in a goat-infested world during the Millennium. But your wish is to churn up anger and defensiveness--not interested, brother. When you learn what Christian good will means we can discuss differences with all of the intensity you wish. It simply has to have Christian love in it.

You don't like Amils calling out your extra-biblical speculations. That is thee issue. Because of this you get frustrated, and then antagonistic. It is not my heart to incite you; it is to establish the truth. I do believe a future millennium is an illusion. It will never happen. I do believe what Premils attribute to Rev 20 (and Scripture) cannot be found in the sacred text. I therefore reserve the right to call out your extra-biblical speculations until you desist from making them. That is fair and reasonable.

The questions that you cannot biblically answer are left dangling here, as so many others over the years. Because of that your only other tactic is ad hominem, which normally comes on the back of such a conclusion.

• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it say "the rule of the glorified Christ and his saints from heaven prevent the overt rebellion against God that we see in the present age"?
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it teach "newly-converted Christians" are left "in charge of many Christian nations promised to Abraham thousands of years ago" in some future millennium?
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it teach Jesus will be "crowned king *on earth* in the promised Kingdom of God."
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it teach "human rebellion against God" will be "under better control than we now see it"?
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it mention a "kingdom age"?

The reality is: this is simply what you think in your head, or what you have been taught, but this is not in God's Book. We therefore should reject it out of hand as an addition foisted upon the sacred text. Take all these add-ons away and there is no Premil.

 

[The Light]

This sure doesn't sound like a secret pre-tribulaton rapture!

Those that the Lord is coming for will hear His voice. Others will only hear thunder and see lightning.

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 12
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

He will only appear to those that are watching for Him as instructed.

Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The time draws short. It would be wise to watch and be ready.

 

[rwb]

Those that the Lord is coming for will hear His voice. Others will only hear thunder and see lightning.

What verse or verses prove this assumption?

 

[Randy Kluth]

You don't like Amils calling out your extra-biblical speculations. That is thee issue. Because of this you get frustrated, and then antagonistic. It is not my heart to incite you; it is to establish the truth. I do believe a future millennium is an illusion. It will never happen. I do believe what Premils attribute to Rev 20 (and Scripture) cannot be found in the sacred text. I therefore reserve the right to call out your extra-biblical speculations until you desist from making them. That is fair and reasonable.

The questions that you cannot biblically answer are left dangling here, as so many others over the years. Because of that your only other tactic is ad hominem, which normally comes on the back of such a conclusion.

• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it say "the rule of the glorified Christ and his saints from heaven prevent the overt rebellion against God that we see in the present age"?
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it teach "newly-converted Christians" are left "in charge of many Christian nations promised to Abraham thousands of years ago" in some future millennium?
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it teach Jesus will be "crowned king *on earth* in the promised Kingdom of God."
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it teach "human rebellion against God" will be "under better control than we now see it"?
• Where in Revelation 20 or anywhere else in the New Testament does it mention a "kingdom age"?

The reality is: this is simply what you think in your head, or what you have been taught, but this is not in God's Book. We therefore should reject it out of hand as an addition foisted upon the sacred text. Take all these add-ons away and there is no Premil.

I answered your questions *to my satisfaction.* I don't care if you disagree. Disagree all you want. But you aren't the arbiter as to whether you're being "fair." God is.

 

[WPM]

I answered your questions *to my satisfaction.* I don't care if you disagree. Disagree all you want. But you aren't the arbiter as to whether you're being "fair." God is.

You are at liberty to swerve around these important issues. I feel if I was a Premil, I would also avoid. That is because there is nothing in the sacred text to support these claims.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

So you think that the kings and priests in Revelation 5 that come out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; are those raised with Jesus resurrection. Well that's totally impossible. There is not the slightest of chances that you are correct.

Jesus ministry was to the house of Israel. The good news was not even presented to the Gentiles during Jesus ministry.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Additionally, Paul did not have the road to Damascus experience until 14 years after Jesus death so your point is in error.

There will be a secret pretribulation rapture of the Church. Satan has prepared the world for this disappearance. How is it that you can't see this?

Thank you, I couldn't have dreamt up a better, imagined a more devastating refutation. BEAUTIFUL and so handy - heaven-sent man, heaven-sent!

 

[The Light]

Thank you, I couldn't have dreamt up a better, imagined a more devastating refutation. BEAUTIFUL and so handy - heaven-sent man, heaven-sent!

Now you have me laughing. I'm going back and forth between you are kidding me, to wait, I think he is serious. I can't imagine you are serious from the things I've seen here on this forum and yet it was indeed devastating. LOL. You are going to have to help me on this one. Did it make sense to you?

 

[The Light]

Not true. You have been taught wrong!

This can't be true as I have no teachers, save one.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations.

Those that know Him will hear His voice.
Those that don't know Him, he will come as a thief. I am unaware of any thief that comes shouting before he robs you.

I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s Coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies.

You seem to be confusing the rapture of the Church with the events of the coming of Jesus at the beginning of the day of the Lord. Why does Paul say "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you"? He was talking about the rapture of the Chuch and if Jesus was only coming once he would say.... But of the time and season. Secondly, your point also proves you wrong because you think that Jesus comes at the end of wrath when the quoted verses show that Jesus comes before wrath, which we can prove with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal before wrath.

Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

You are mistakenly comparing the coming of Jesus before the day of the Lord with the coming of Jesus for the Church. Two different comings.

The teaching of a secret rapture emanates from the defective notion of a pre-tribulation rapture – a doctrine that has been popular since the 1830’s. The notion of a secret rapture emanates from a wrong understanding of the passages relating to the Lord coming as a “thief in the night.” The Scriptural references to Christ coming as a “thief in the night” simply refers to the unexpectedness or suddenness of that event and not to its secretiveness.

How is it that you only see one coming of Jesus? In one coming it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Likewise also another coming will be like the days of Lot, where the vey day Lot left Sodom destruction came. One coming will be at the trump of God, or voice of God and another coming will be at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets. In when coming the dead in Christ rise first and then the alive believers are caught up. In another coming both the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. In one coming He comes before the seals are opened and in another coming He comes before the wrath of God.

I think you are not paying attention to what you are reading and it is all blended together.

 

[The Light]

Hold on!

1. 1 Thessalonians 4 talks about the catching away, yes, we all agree with that. But where is your 7-years trib there (or in any other passage) after the rapture? Hello!
2. Romans 11 makes no mention of a rapture, a 7-years trib or a 3rd coming.
3. As for Daniel 9:

• There is no mention of the Church in Daniel 9.
• There is no mention of tribulation in Daniel 9.
• There is no 7-year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is no rapture mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is no 3rd coming mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that tells us to sever the last 7 years off from this harmonious prophecy relating to Christ’s 1st Coming and propel it 2,000 years into the unknown.
• There is no antichrist mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that says antichrist will make a peace covenant with Israel for 7 years.
• There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that teaches antichrist will break a peace covenant with Israel.
• There are no tribulation saints mentioned in Daniel 9.
• There is no mention in Daniel 9 of the rebuilding of a third temple.

It is plain that you do not possess one single proof text for your doctrine. It is obviously a man-made invention belonging to the Left Behind novels.

I'm always amazed at those that look for the magic verse that will prove when Jesus comes. Here it is, right in the text so you can see.

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[rwb]

How is it that you only see one coming of Jesus? In one coming it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Likewise also another coming will be like the days of Lot, where the vey day Lot left Sodom destruction came. One coming will be at the trump of God, or voice of God and another coming will be at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets. In when coming the dead in Christ rise first and then the alive believers are caught up. In another coming both the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. In one coming He comes before the seals are opened and in another coming He comes before the wrath of God.

If this were truth why does the author of Hebrews tell us Christ shall appear the second time, and say nothing about a third appearance?

Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[WPM]

This can't be true as I have no teachers, save one.

Those that know Him will hear His voice.
Those that don't know Him, he will come as a thief. I am unaware of any thief that comes shouting before he robs you.

You seem to be confusing the rapture of the Church with the events of the coming of Jesus at the beginning of the day of the Lord. Why does Paul say "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you"? He was talking about the rapture of the Chuch and if Jesus was only coming once he would say.... But of the time and season. Secondly, your point also proves you wrong because you think that Jesus comes at the end of wrath when the quoted verses show that Jesus comes before wrath, which we can prove with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal before wrath.

You are mistakenly comparing the coming of Jesus before the day of the Lord with the coming of Jesus for the Church. Two different comings.


How is it that you only see one coming of Jesus? In one coming it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Likewise also another coming will be like the days of Lot, where the vey day Lot left Sodom destruction came. One coming will be at the trump of God, or voice of God and another coming will be at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets. In when coming the dead in Christ rise first and then the alive believers are caught up. In another coming both the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. In one coming He comes before the seals are opened and in another coming He comes before the wrath of God.

I think you are not paying attention to what you are reading and it is all blended together.

This is all taught theology. No one one would ever go there of themselves. Many of us were deceived by this nonsense and are now enlightened.

You are yet to show us one single proof-text. That is because you have nothing. Instead of admitting that you stubbornly throw out what you have been indoctrinated. You are married to a man-made doctrine. You need to repent and abandon it. You have proved by your failure to present one single passage that teaches a rapture, a 7-years trib or a 3rd coming that this is indeed a man-made Jesuit doctrine.