Another Premillennial absurdity

[WPM]

Really?
Sounds as if a “student Bible” would be useful to you, to learn the BEGINNING basics.

This Thread is a conversation WAY beyond Beginner Basics.

Your position has been well and truly exposed! You know it. If you had it you would present it. All you have is private opinion. This is what the cults do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Really?
Sounds as if a “student Bible” would be useful to you, to learn the BEGINNING basics.

This Thread is a conversation WAY beyond Beginner Basics.

Was this childish response really necessary? Are you an adult or not? Was my question too difficult for you? You didn't even bother answering it despite it supposedly relating to beginning Bible basics? If it's something basic then surely you can show me where scripture teaches this, as you claimed: "Evil spirits WILL NOT BE Present ON EARTH During Christ Jesus’ millennial reign.".

Why not just tell me where that is taught instead of responding with nonsense? Shouldn't take you long if it's something basic as you are claiming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord in Scripture?

LOL. I think you could fill up the entire page with the question and he still won't answer it. He knows that the only possible answer is "nowhere", but he doesn't want to swallow his pride and admit that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rapture and Tribulation are TWO very different things.

LOL. Who says otherwise? Not post-tribs. No one does.

Show yourself approved by in-depth studying each independently.

We have a passage in scripture showing one happening immediately after the other (Matthew 24:29-31). Simple as that. You turn simple things into convoluted things that only you can understand.

Rapture IS Raising up OFF the face of the Earth.
Tribulation IS Experiencing chaos, troubles ON the face of the Earth.

LOL. No kidding. Who says otherwise?

You are of the.....GIMMY the Understanding (crowd)...BEFORE you exert energy to hear, learn, study the Truth.

Did you UNDERSTAND to ADD numbers BEFORE you Learned what numbers ARE?

Understanding Always comes AFTER Learning.

Who doesn't understand that the rapture and tribulation are different things? You are wasting your time making straw man arguments. Time that you can't ever get back. The issue isn't differentiating between the rapture and tribulation, the issue has to do with determining the timing of the rapture in relation to tribulation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, all do not accept the Rapture, as you forementioned.

Who doesn't? Maybe full preterists. Who else?

No, all do not accept Rev 20...see @Truth7t7 .

We all accept Revelation 20. We just don't all agree on how it should be interpreted.

No, this thread is not about the Length of time regarding the Future Tribulation.

No, I do not find you prepared in knowledge to hold a worthy discussion with you ABOUT the length of time regarding the Future Tribulation.

Okay, so just show a passage showing the rapture followed by a time of tribulation of any duration. Or is that too much to ask?

 

[Taken]

LOL. You are providing nothing apart from personal opinion. That is the basis of your posts. You like to talk gibberish. You have nothing in the sacred text. Your avoidance proves that.

Aw, having a discussion BEYOND beginner basics DOES NOT REQUIRE long time students to be reminded of every single place in Scripture Beginner Knowledge is revealed.

Your questions reveal you have by-passed a Beginners introduction and learning Gods Word....to think you are entitled to understanding of knowledge you have not yet learned.

And yes, you verify by your “gibberish” comment....you haven’t a clue or preparedness to discuss in-depth knowledge of God, and certainly not the understanding thereof.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Aw, having a discussion BEYOND beginner basics DOES NOT REQUIRE long time students to be reminded of every single place in Scripture Beginner Knowledge is revealed.

Your questions reveal you have by-passed a Beginners introduction and learning Gods Word....to think you are entitled to understanding of knowledge you have not yet learned.

And yes, you verify by your “gibberish” comment....you haven’t a clue or preparedness to discuss in-depth knowledge of God, and certainly not the understanding thereof.

Translation: You won't answer even the simplest questions because you know the answers reveal the falsehood in your doctrine. What you're doing here is what people typically do when they know that they either don't have an answer to the question being asked and are too prideful to say "There are none" or "I don't know" or they know the answer but won't answer it because they know that the answer reveals a major weakness in their own beliefs.

 

[Truth7t7]

As for Rev 20, we all accept that. Amils and Postmils just believe it is ongoing since the first resurrection.

I would be (Ahmil-Postmil) and disagree that (Thousand Years) started at the resurrection of Jesus Christ

The words (Thousand Years) in Revelation 20 is nothing more than speech that is representative of 2 Peter 3:8 below, where one day is a (Thousand Years) in the Lord's Spiritual Realm, where there isn't literal time seen, it's that simple

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Taken]

LOL. Who says otherwise? Not post-tribs. No one does.


We have a passage in scripture showing one happening immediately after the other (Matthew 24:29-31). Simple as that. You turn simple things into convoluted things that only you can understand.


LOL. No kidding. Who says otherwise?


Who doesn't understand that the rapture and tribulation are different things? You are wasting your time making straw man arguments. Time that you can't ever get back. The issue isn't differentiating between the rapture and tribulation, the issue has to do with determining the timing of the rapture in relation to tribulation.

Making statement is not Making an argument.

 

[Taken]

Translation: You won't answer even the simplest questions because you know the answers reveal the falsehood in your doctrine. What you're doing here is what people typically do when they know that they either don't have an answer to the question being asked and are too prideful to say "There are none" or "I don't know" or they know the answer but won't answer it because they know that the answer reveals a major weakness in their own beliefs.

Fact: I don’t know you.
Fact: You are NOT qualified to pretend you have authority to TRANSLATE what I say.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Making statement is not Making an argument.

Whatever you want to call it. The point is that you are making some statements that everyone here agrees on and already knows. That's a waste of time. Little kids who have barely read the Bible know that there is a difference between the rapture and tribulation. Does that really need to be pointed out? Of course not. That isn't the disagreement that we have. The disagreement is over the timing of the rapture in relation to "the tribulation of those days".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Fact: I don’t know you.
Fact: You are NOT qualified to pretend you have authority to TRANSLATE what I say.

Yes, I am. And I did. It's not as if I'm the only one here who can tell what you're really saying. You have no reason not to answer simple questions. Unless you can't answer them or know that the answers reveal weaknesses in your view. Otherwise, why not answer them? No reason why not.

 

[WPM]

Aw, having a discussion BEYOND beginner basics DOES NOT REQUIRE long time students to be reminded of every single place in Scripture Beginner Knowledge is revealed.

Your questions reveal you have by-passed a Beginners introduction and learning Gods Word....to think you are entitled to understanding of knowledge you have not yet learned.

And yes, you verify by your “gibberish” comment....you haven’t a clue or preparedness to discuss in-depth knowledge of God, and certainly not the understanding thereof.

Your failure to address the simplest possible question shows how bereft you are of biblical support. All you have is prideful personal opinions that duck around the question on the table. We all know Pretrib has no proof text. Your uncomfortableness and inability to address this, just confirms the obvious. You cannot present something that does not exist.

 

[WPM]

Fact: I don’t know you.
Fact: You are NOT qualified to pretend you have authority to TRANSLATE what I say.

Avoidance is avoidance and gibberish is gibberish. Plain and simple. You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes the 1,000 year resign of Christ Jesus is in Scripture. You have been shown, yet deny it. That’s on you.

Humans dying is not “morbid”. Humans are Mortal.
Mortal man IS REQUIRED and PURPOSED TO DIE!

All things were Created for Gods Pleasure.
Rev. 4:
[11] Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Angels were created WITH eternal HOLY (spirit) Life, with Freewill to Remain holy, or Reject their holiness. They can fall from holiness, (SIN) but never die.

Animal-KIND were created WITH BLOOD life, Given a SOUL (Gods Breath of Life), a MIND, instincts, Freewill to roam, WITHOUT a heartful spirit of Truth.
They CAN NOT SIN. (Believe or Not Believe IN God).

Man-KIND were created WITH BLOOD life, Given a SOUL (Gods Breath of Life), a MIND, instincts, Freewill, WITH a natural spirit of Heartful Truth Life.
They CAN SIN (ie cognitively/MINDFULLY, Not Believe IN God....spiritually HEARTFULLY, Not Believe IN God).

See the difference regarding Man-KIND?
BLOOD Life...SOUL Life...heartful SPIRIT Life.

Blood Life, is in regard to the mans Bodily Systems, Blood, Organs, Mind, tissue, bones, etc

Soul Life, is in regard to the mans senses, eyes; seeing, / ears; hearing / tongue; tasting / nose; smelling / flesh; touch feeling

Spirit Life, is in regard to the mans Natural TRUTH in his Heart.
(Which means a man CAN BELIEVE one thing in his CARNAL MIND and BELIEVE another thing in his HEART’S Spirit.)

BLOOD LIFE and NATURAL spirit (heartful truth) of a MORTAL MAN....
MUST DIE....God REQUIRES IT!!! (Doesn’t matter how or when, ALL mortal Blood and Natural spirit LIFE of man SHALL DIE.)

Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

WHY?

Because...God IS Spirit.
Because...Gods DESIRE is for Man-KIND to forever BE WITH Him.
Because...Man-KIND forever WITH God, IS God inheritance.
Because...A natural man CAN NOT SEE GOD, but a “man IN a spiritual body”, CAN SEE God “as He IS”.

God DOES NOT CHANGE....
However God OFFERS ALL of mankind a FREEWILL CHOICE, that “THEY CAN BE “MADE” Changed.

REMEMBER....God is the CREATOR...and MAKER.
REMEMBER....God CREATES, without man-asking.
REMEMBER....God MAKES, according to a mans desire and asking.

That OFFERING...
Applies TO the whole of the man: BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT.
* dead body, raised in a new spiritual body, unseen by human eyes.
* soul restored, to Good as it was when God Gave it to him, ie called Sav-ed
* spirit quickened, having received the SEED of God, which births a man a new heartful spirit, ie Gods TRUTH, ie called Born Again, ie called having been Baptized with the Holy Spirit of God.

That OFFERING...
Is Expressly According TO: Gods Terms (so to speak). Gods ORDER and WAY.
Man-KIND has the freewill...TO: Accept Gods ORDER and WAY, or Reject it.

DEATH of a mans BODY....MUST Proceed the ACT of God TO RAISE up that mans BODY....(MADE CHANGED).....
DEATH of a mans BODY....CAN ALSO be DEAD, raised up IN it same Blood Life BODY...(UNCHANGED)
Mystery...
DEATH of a mans BODY....CAN ALSO be DEAD, raised up IF the Living soul (ie Gods BREATH) is RETURNED to the Body.

WHEN...a mans BODY (mortally DIES),
* the mans LIVING SOUL, Departs that DEAD BODY.
~ Saved, that soul goes to Heaven, to wait to return to its Glorified Body to be risen and Judgement.
~ UnSaved, that soul goes to Hell to wait for the day it is returned to its dead (unchanged) risen body, and Judgement.

WHEN...a mans BODY (mortally DIES0,
* IF the mans natural spirit in his Heart, HAS BEEN changed....his new spiritual spirit DEPARTS his Dead body and Rises to Heaven, to ALSO WAIT for his BODY to be risen in Glory.
* IF the mans natural spirit in his Heart, HAS NOT BEEN changed...his natural spirit (natural truth in his heart), DIES along with his natural BODILY BLOOD LIFE.

Mortal men HAVE a freewill OPTION, to BE “MADE” changed
TO: WHOLLY, WHOLE and HOLY. (Body, soul, spirit)
BY: THROUGH: OF; the offering of God, BE; THROUGH, OF: Christ the Power of God.
ACCORDING TO: Gods ORDER and WAY.

Where is Jesus Christ in your belief in a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth?

Is Jesus seated on a literal throne in Jerusalem on this earth?

 

[n2thelight]

You didn't answer his question. What will qualify any mortals to surive the return of Christ? We know that all believers will be changed to have immortal bodies at that point. But, what does scripture say will happen to everyone else at that time (see 2 Thess 1:7-10, Matt 24:35-39, 2 Peter 3:10-12)?

All shall be changed , the difference will be the state of the soul , yes believers shall have immortal souls at that time , however those who are not in Christ although changed will have a mortal soul, meaning they stand to die the 2nd death .

 

[Taken]

Where is Jesus Christ in your belief in a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth?

Is Jesus seated on a literal throne in Jerusalem on this earth?

Where has in detail been answered. His Kingdom, Abrahams Promised Land.
His Place of conducting His Governing Authority, Jerusalem.

I suppose He can literally sit any place He pleases.
His Throne is parallel to an Office of Authority.
King of His city Jerusalem.
King of His Kingdom Abraham’s Promised Land.
King over All kings of All nations upon the face of the earth.

 

[Taken]

Avoidance is avoidance and gibberish is gibberish. Plain and simple. You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table.

Yes, I am. And I did. It's not as if I'm the only one here who can tell what you're really saying. You have no reason not to answer simple questions. Unless you can't answer them or know that the answers reveal weaknesses in your view. Otherwise, why not answer them? No reason why not.

What do you believe about the Rapture? Is a simple question.
The response can be very detailed and lengthy.
What a load of gibberish that makes no sense.
Now the Demand. Give to me every Biblical Reference for your Belief.

What I believe has been stated.
There is NO expectation for you to believe as I do, when it is OBVIOUS you have NOT done as I HAVE DONE.

Why expect ME to read, study, learn, ponder, study some more, Ask God for His Understanding...........FOR YOU?

Satan himself IS expressly learned in Gods Word....YET he LACKS Understanding of Gods Word...

Scripture is a text of Knowledge...You read it, You study it, You choose to believe it or not.
You want the Understanding of the Knowledge ? You ask God!
IF you are NOT Committed TO the Lord God... Expect NO ANSWER.

Then you can join the ranks of those WHO accuse God of His Truths, Knowledge, Words are gibberish nonsense.

The Fact is; WHEN you DO NOT UNDERSTAND (regarding ANY Knowledge), the KNOWLEDGE will NOT make sense to YOU.

The Fact is: WHEN you DO UNDERSTAND (Any) Knowledge, it’s called WISDOM.

The Fact is: ONLY God gives another HIS UNDERSTANDING of HIS KNOWLEDGE.

You have spend multiple posts whining about wanting an ANSWER to YOUR SIMPLE QUESTION....Since your SIMPLE QUESTION is so pressing but has been over run by your whining.....

REPEAT your SIMPLE QUESTION, and I will give you a SIMPLE ANSWER.

 

[-Phil]

ONLY God gives another

This is what blasphemy is.

 

[rwb]

What proves this to be a literal 1,000-year period is because the article "THE" is used 3 times to describe it. When the article is used it indicates something specific. In this case it would be a 1,000-year period.

The Textus Receptus also shows verses 3, 5, and 7 with the ARTICLE - hE G3588.

When 1,000 years are mentioned with the article like this...

V.3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand G5507 years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

V.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand G5507 years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

V. 7 And when the thousand G5507 years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

This indicates a literal 1,000 years.

That means we can be certain the other verses in the passage indicate the same 1,000 years even though the article is not used. The article is NOT necessary in those verses anyway because of the antecedent nouns which are the,
"dragon, that old serpent - reigned with Christ - reign with him."

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand G5507 years,

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand G5507 years.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand G5507 years.

I hope this helps.

Revelation 20:2 (KJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In each of these three verses John is defining time (1) for which Satan was or is bound (2) for which the martyred souls in John's vision lived and reigned with Christ (3) for which other saints who are not among the martyred souls, but who shall also reign with Christ.

The same amount of time, John writes "a thousand years" is when martyred saints had already lived and reigned with Christ, and also when other saints, John writes as blessed and holy, hath part in the first resurrection, overcome the second death, and shall be priests of God and of Christ "a thousand years". Why does John write that both past martyred souls and future saints are both with the Lord during this time John writes "a thousand years"?

Because when John writes of the binding of Satan for "a thousand years" it is interpreted as both past and a present reality. John writes of what he describes as Satan having been bound by the angel who came down from heaven and he shall not be loosed till "the thousand years should be fulfilled". Then he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:3 (KJV) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The thousand years binding of Satan is both past and present reality because it is the same amount of time given the martyred saints who have already lived and reigned with Christ, and the same amount of time given future saints who shall reign with Him. Satan's binding will continue until the thousand years, which is referring back to "a thousand years" should be fulfilled. It is during the time "a thousand years" of Satan's binding that ALL people of faith whether in life or in death live and reign with Christ. John is showing how physical death does not keep those of faith from the Lord. Because the life we have from Christ when we believe shall never end. That's why John is shown a vision of Satan having been bound, and currently bound until time (a thousand years) shall be no longer.

The binding of Satan bound his power to hold those who believe in bondage to fear of death. As the Gospel is proclaimed in TIME, while Satan in bound in TIME the Kingdom of God is being built, and when the Kingdom is complete, the seventh angel will begin to sound that this TIME (a thousand years) is finished. Then Satan MUST be loosed for his "little season" when Christ will return the second time for His people, and Satan and all left alive upon this earth will be utterly burned up by the fire that shall come down form God out of heaven. Since TIME will be no more, the age of eternity on the new earth will begin and never end.

The thousand years, always harkens back to "a thousand years" that shall be the TIME given for Satan to be bound while the Gospel builds the Kingdom of God through the power of His Spirit. This TIME began when Christ was born, and we witness the power of Christ by His defeat of sin on the cross and overcoming the power of Satan over death by His resurrection.