Is knowing what death is a comfort?

[rwb]

Everyone who dies goes to hell, as it is the abode of the dead. Each of us await our resurrection and look forward to the day hell is emptied Jn 5:28,29; Rev 20:13. I have the hope that most Christians do to be resurrected right here on earth Rev 21:3,4

Everyone who dies go physically into the grave, or the place of the physically dead to return to the earth. Some verses call this "hell". But it is important to understand what the Bible calls 'hell' can be either the place of eternal fire and burning, also called the Lake of fire, and Gehenna, or the literal grave, hades where the physically dead are buried.

John 5:28-29 is reference to the physical resurrection of all who are physically dead and buried in the grave/hades. The resurrection fate of the physically dead is either resurrection to physical life or resurrection to physical damnation depending on whether in life Christ says they were good or evil.

In Rev 20:13 John writes of the physically dead also being physically resurrected from the grave/hades, but John's focus is of "the dead", those who have not overcome the second death, who are physically resurrected to stand before the GWTJ. In this passage of Rev 20:11-15 John is not telling us about the physical resurrection of those who in life Christ says were good. Nowhere in Rev 20 does John write of the physical resurrection of those who in TIME lived and reigned with Christ, because they have overcome the second death while physically alive in time (a thousand years).

You make no distinction between those who physically die being in Christ, or of faith, and those who physically die without Christ, or lacking saving faith. As others have shown those who die in Christ are physically dead, but spiritually alive through His Spirit in them, because their spirit shall never die. In death, as others here have shown, those of faith leave their body and as living soul go a spiritual body to heaven where all who die in Christ will spiritually be until TIME for this earth shall be no longer.

 

[rwb]

The only way to find comfort in physical death is in knowing the One Who gives life everlasting. With this knowledge we understand and believe the Word Christ spoke when He says, "Whosoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." That's the promise that comforts all who physically die abiding in Christ for everlasting life. We understand that physical death is the destiny for all mankind, but physical death cannot take our living soul, because physical death simply means we leave our dead body behind and go as spiritual body into His Kingdom in heaven. This is how believers find comfort in death, knowing that death is not the end, but rather the beginning of everlasting life with our Lord.

Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).

 

[bbyrd009]

God's people are recorded as using God's name many times in the Bible Byrd. Ex 9:16 shows His desire for it. And no even though some versions of the Bible use fame there, name occurred in the original. Jesus used God's name making it manifest to his close associates Jn 17:6 and of course his followers are commanded to teach all the things he commanded, there really is no option sir. Mat 28:20

so then i would go with that, and leave the other until it comes back around, so to speak, RG, i mean you seem pretty conscientious right now, so if it isnt ticking any boxes right now meh, but you might contemplate why an empty room for a holy of holies at some point, or why give “God” an unpronounceable Name like AEOU, “YHWH,” but really i think it just comes down to not getting too comfortable with ones definition of “God.”

see, even “Jehovah” becomes sort of a violation of the principle, not saying that its like bad or anything, but back then it would have been considered a heresy i think, as they strove to not even say the Name of God, something we no longer do right

 

[-Phil]

Do you have trouble pronouncing Jehovah sir, it is simple really Juh Hoe Vuh there you have it Phil. Perhaps you have trouble in understand what he was really saying, he wasn't speaking about pronunciation at all, rather indicating it should not be used.

You’re lost in your own justifications & rationalizations lol. Just go back and read what’s already written.

 

[Dropship]

Everyone who dies goes to hell, as it is the abode of the dead. Each of us await our resurrection and look forward to the day hell is emptied Jn 5:28,29; Rev 20:13. I have the hope that most Christians do to be resurrected right here on earth Rev 21:3,4

When we die we go straight to heaven if we qualify, remember Jesus said to the chap on the cross next to him "Today you'll be with me in paradise"..:)

 

[Dropship]

"Jehovah" is a Masoretic pious contrivance that means nothing to me, RG, sorry

Agreed, Jehovah simply translates as "I am" because God is too big and awesome to have a name slapped on him like the freak show of assorted heathen false gods.
In fact trying to give God a name is just downright disrespectful and blasphemous and I'm sure satan is chuckling..;)
Below: God sets Moses straight-

 

[Robert Gwin]

Everyone who dies go physically into the grave, or the place of the physically dead to return to the earth. Some verses call this "hell". But it is important to understand what the Bible calls 'hell' can be either the place of eternal fire and burning, also called the Lake of fire, and Gehenna, or the literal grave, hades where the physically dead are buried.

John 5:28-29 is reference to the physical resurrection of all who are physically dead and buried in the grave/hades. The resurrection fate of the physically dead is either resurrection to physical life or resurrection to physical damnation depending on whether in life Christ says they were good or evil.

In Rev 20:13 John writes of the physically dead also being physically resurrected from the grave/hades, but John's focus is of "the dead", those who have not overcome the second death, who are physically resurrected to stand before the GWTJ. In this passage of Rev 20:11-15 John is not telling us about the physical resurrection of those who in life Christ says were good. Nowhere in Rev 20 does John write of the physical resurrection of those who in TIME lived and reigned with Christ, because they have overcome the second death while physically alive in time (a thousand years).

You make no distinction between those who physically die being in Christ, or of faith, and those who physically die without Christ, or lacking saving faith. As others have shown those who die in Christ are physically dead, but spiritually alive through His Spirit in them, because their spirit shall never die. In death, as others here have shown, those of faith leave their body and as living soul go a spiritual body to heaven where all who die in Christ will spiritually be until TIME for this earth shall be no longer.

The

Everyone who dies go physically into the grave, or the place of the physically dead to return to the earth. Some verses call this "hell". But it is important to understand what the Bible calls 'hell' can be either the place of eternal fire and burning, also called the Lake of fire, and Gehenna, or the literal grave, hades where the physically dead are buried.

John 5:28-29 is reference to the physical resurrection of all who are physically dead and buried in the grave/hades. The resurrection fate of the physically dead is either resurrection to physical life or resurrection to physical damnation depending on whether in life Christ says they were good or evil.

In Rev 20:13 John writes of the physically dead also being physically resurrected from the grave/hades, but John's focus is of "the dead", those who have not overcome the second death, who are physically resurrected to stand before the GWTJ. In this passage of Rev 20:11-15 John is not telling us about the physical resurrection of those who in life Christ says were good. Nowhere in Rev 20 does John write of the physical resurrection of those who in TIME lived and reigned with Christ, because they have overcome the second death while physically alive in time (a thousand years).

You make no distinction between those who physically die being in Christ, or of faith, and those who physically die without Christ, or lacking saving faith. As others have shown those who die in Christ are physically dead, but spiritually alive through His Spirit in them, because their spirit shall never die. In death, as others here have shown, those of faith leave their body and as living soul go a spiritual body to heaven where all who die in Christ will spiritually be until TIME for this earth shall be no longer.

You make no distinction between those who physically die being in Christ, or of faith, and those who physically die without Christ, or lacking saving faith. As others have shown those who die in Christ are physically dead, but spiritually alive through His Spirit in them, because their spirit shall never die. In death, as others here have shown, those of faith leave their body and as living soul go a spiritual body to heaven where all who die in Christ will spiritually be until TIME for this earth shall be no longer.

We pretty much agree on all the first part of what you said Rw, the Bible does address your last thought however at Acts 24:15: . . .there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
Those who were God's people both prior to Christ, and afterward will be the righteous, and those who were not belonging to God will be the unrighteous. They have not been judged as goats however, those will be destroyed prior to the resurrection, unrighteous ones mostly will be those who were never given the opportunity to know God and to become His.

 

[Robert Gwin]

so then i would go with that, and leave the other until it comes back around, so to speak, RG, i mean you seem pretty conscientious right now, so if it isnt ticking any boxes right now meh, but you might contemplate why an empty room for a holy of holies at some point, or why give “God” an unpronounceable Name like AEOU, “YHWH,” but really i think it just comes down to not getting too comfortable with ones definition of “God.”

see, even “Jehovah” becomes sort of a violation of the principle, not saying that its like bad or anything, but back then it would have been considered a heresy i think, as they strove to not even say the Name of God, something we no longer do right

Romans 10:13-15; Acts 15:14. Are you able to look in the world today and see a people for His name sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

When we die we go straight to heaven if we qualify, remember Jesus said to the chap on the cross next to him "Today you'll be with me in paradise"..:)

I think you might be correct Drop, since the first resurrection has happened, those who qualify to go to heaven might not have to go to the grave for any time. I really do not know. You are reading a version that placed the comma in the wrong place Drop, as Jesus did not go to his paradise for forty more days, the thief was not qualified for heaven since he did not receive the holy spirit, and the first resurrection for those who go to heaven had not yet occurred, for many centuries I might add, but till the very least after it was recorded in Revelation.

 

[rwb]

The


We pretty much agree on all the first part of what you said Rw, the Bible does address your last thought however at Acts 24:15: . . .there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
Those who were God's people both prior to Christ, and afterward will be the righteous, and those who were not belonging to God will be the unrighteous. They have not been judged as goats however, those will be destroyed prior to the resurrection, unrighteous ones mostly will be those who were never given the opportunity to know God and to become His.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here Robert. Do you believe there will be two (or more) physical resurrections of mankind separated by one thousand years?

 

[bbyrd009]

Romans 10:13-15

funny you invoke this one, imo; but nevermind :)

Acts 15:14. Are you able to look in the world today and see a people for His name sir?

yes, but just like the example in acts, it would likely not be the one you have in mind, and, as in Rom 10:4 it def would not be JWs, not that they arent as good a cult to be from as any, RG. See, right now you know everything, right, even the Name of the Lord, yes?

And i mean im not too interested in pushing this too hard or anything, but a time might come for you when you begin to question, maybe even wrestle with some of your preconceived notions, and it will surely feel like you are maybe losing your grip on “God” (theos) and maybe even your “lord” (kurios), but you might actually be finding a better understanding, since neither of those is the Name of Yah anyway, which really cannot be pronounced, for a good reason imo.

doesnt mean that one could not “call on the Name of the Lord” anyway—even if “lord” is an english titled landholder, and a terrible translation for kurios imo—nonetheless, it is imo just a contradictory part of the truth, that reveals a little of the nature of YHWH, that no offense but i wouldnt expect someone currently bound up in the law (rom 10:4) to much embrace.

so fwiw i was with some bunch of legalists at your age too im sure, pentecostals prolly, so im not meaning to say that where you are right now is not a good place to be or anything, just that we are in different places, and i no longer look “in the world” for a people in His Name, and i am managing to find them pretty much anywhere i look tbh. Finding them, surprisingly, among Muslims got me started on my journey away from the cult of sol, and who knows what might start you on your path?

And meanwhile imo it is prolly best to be under the law somewhere anyway, or at least ill say that my forty years or so under various cults, Pentecostals etc, has served me well. So if you are asking me to point to some specific sect for that, i would suggest that that likely just isnt how it works; i might be as likely to save a Catholic as an atheist or pagan now lol, but tbh im not entirely sure how JWs define “saved” either, although i bet i can guess :)

 

[bbyrd009]

the Bible does address your last thought however at Acts 24:15: . . .there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous

that isnt what that passage says at all though, RG, but merely that that is Paul’s hope, and i suggest that being Paul he is meaning something entirely different than what Felix or you think anyway, since he had just claimed to be of the sect known as The Way. So iow he is speaking in riddles, and being read literally.

 

[bbyrd009]

The


We pretty much agree on all the first part of what you said Rw, the Bible does address your last thought however at Acts 24:15: . . .there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
Those who were God's people both prior to Christ, and afterward will be the righteous, and those who were not belonging to God will be the unrighteous. They have not been judged as goats however, those will be destroyed prior to the resurrection, unrighteous ones mostly will be those who were never given the opportunity to know God and to become His.

so i mean, you just have it all mapped out, huh RG? This is something i noticed a long time ago, among those who say “Jehovah,” wadr.

And i only tell you this now so that you might recall it when the time comes; at some point you will have a crisis of confidence, and all that stuff you know is going to come crashing down around your ears ok, and that is when you will start growing again, or iow that is normal and even desirable. Or you might become a JW “elder” i guess—do they have little badges that say “elder,” btw? Serious question. Anyway see, right now you are not even allowed to talk to people who have been shunned, or ejected, or whatever its called, right? You would incur some penalty for this, yes? To put that another way, some Other Guy would surely decide that you were doing Something Wrong, were you to even attempt a conversation with someone that he had decided was off the rails or whatever, right?

As a matter of fact, you might get in trouble for even posting here, if im not mistaken? Guess maybe that depends upon which branch of JWs you are involved with, dunno.

 

[Dropship]

When we die we go straight to heaven if we qualify, remember Jesus said to the chap on the cross next to him "Today you'll be with me in paradise"..:)

I think you might be correct Drop, since the first resurrection has happened, those who qualify to go to heaven might not have to go to the grave for any time. I really do not know. You are reading a version that placed the comma in the wrong place Drop, as Jesus did not go to his paradise for forty more days, the thief was not qualified for heaven since he did not receive the holy spirit, and the first resurrection for those who go to heaven had not yet occurred, for many centuries I might add, but till the very least after it was recorded in Revelation.

No need to get bogged down in longwinded guesswork mate, the bottom line is that good people go to heaven and bad people don't, it's as simple as that..:)

 

[Robert Gwin]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here Robert. Do you believe there will be two (or more) physical resurrections of mankind separated by one thousand years?

No sir, Rev 20:6 speaks of the first resurrection, those who are resurrected in it are not subject to the second death, in other words they are immortal, speaking of the 144k that are redeemed from this earth Rev 14:3. Since there is a first, that doesn't include everyone, and since verse 5 states that the rest of the dead do not come to life until the thousand years has ended, then obviously there has to be another resurrection. The reason they have not came to life is that they have to be tested as Adam was, through the releasing of satan for a period of time, after that thousand years has ended. If they pass the test they have now came to life, gaining the gift that God gives everlasting life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23

 

[Robert Gwin]

funny you invoke this one, imo; but nevermind :)

yes, but just like the example in acts, it would likely not be the one you have in mind, and, as in Rom 10:4 it def would not be JWs, not that they arent as good a cult to be from as any, RG. See, right now you know everything, right, even the Name of the Lord, yes?

And i mean im not too interested in pushing this too hard or anything, but a time might come for you when you begin to question, maybe even wrestle with some of your preconceived notions, and it will surely feel like you are maybe losing your grip on “God” (theos) and maybe even your “lord” (kurios), but you might actually be finding a better understanding, since neither of those is the Name of Yah anyway, which really cannot be pronounced, for a good reason imo.

doesnt mean that one could not “call on the Name of the Lord” anyway—even if “lord” is an english titled landholder, and a terrible translation for kurios imo—nonetheless, it is imo just a contradictory part of the truth, that reveals a little of the nature of YHWH, that no offense but i wouldnt expect someone currently bound up in the law (rom 10:4) to much embrace.

so fwiw i was with some bunch of legalists at your age too im sure, pentecostals prolly, so im not meaning to say that where you are right now is not a good place to be or anything, just that we are in different places, and i no longer look “in the world” for a people in His Name, and i am managing to find them pretty much anywhere i look tbh. Finding them, surprisingly, among Muslims got me started on my journey away from the cult of sol, and who knows what might start you on your path?

And meanwhile imo it is prolly best to be under the law somewhere anyway, or at least ill say that my forty years or so under various cults, Pentecostals etc, has served me well. So if you are asking me to point to some specific sect for that, i would suggest that that likely just isnt how it works; i might be as likely to save a Catholic as an atheist or pagan now lol, but tbh im not entirely sure how JWs define “saved” either, although i bet i can guess :)

funny you invoke this one, imo; but nevermind :)

The only reason I can think of that you consider it funny is because you think it is referring to Jesus, however that is a quoted verse from Joel 2:32 Byrd, which clearly states those who call on Jehovah's name will get away safe.

All English Bibles that render God's name in English use Jehovah Byrd, I do not believe they are in error, in fact the fact that the translators of the KJV of the Bible were unsuccessful in being able to remove it completely makes me believe Jehovah protected His name in that version, as He knew it would be the main Bible for centuries to people. Have you observed that since the NWT was released and God's name is well known throughout the earth, that He has allowed many versions to almost remove it? I actually do not know of any version that is able to remove it completely however, do you?

 

[Robert Gwin]

that isnt what that passage says at all though, RG, but merely that that is Paul’s hope, and i suggest that being Paul he is meaning something entirely different than what Felix or you think anyway, since he had just claimed to be of the sect known as The Way. So iow he is speaking in riddles, and being read literally.

I on the other hand think it is God's inspired words Byrd. If the Bible says it sir, I believe it, and of course it did address your concerns that is why I posted it.

 

[Robert Gwin]

so i mean, you just have it all mapped out, huh RG? This is something i noticed a long time ago, among those who say “Jehovah,” wadr.

And i only tell you this now so that you might recall it when the time comes; at some point you will have a crisis of confidence, and all that stuff you know is going to come crashing down around your ears ok, and that is when you will start growing again, or iow that is normal and even desirable. Or you might become a JW “elder” i guess—do they have little badges that say “elder,” btw? Serious question. Anyway see, right now you are not even allowed to talk to people who have been shunned, or ejected, or whatever its called, right? You would incur some penalty for this, yes? To put that another way, some Other Guy would surely decide that you were doing Something Wrong, were you to even attempt a conversation with someone that he had decided was off the rails or whatever, right?

As a matter of fact, you might get in trouble for even posting here, if im not mistaken? Guess maybe that depends upon which branch of JWs you are involved with, dunno.

We are encouraged not to post on sites like this Byrd, you are quite correct. I understand the whys, especially if one is not well rooted in the faith. The reason why you state we have it all mapped out, which we don't by the way, is because we are well educated scripturally sir. Isa 2:2,3. Jehovah prepares us well for us to accomplish the assignment, our ministry. Mat 28:19,20; 2 Tim 4:5

 

[Robert Gwin]

No need to get bogged down in longwinded guesswork mate, the bottom line is that good people go to heaven and bad people don't, it's as simple as that..:)

When you state good/bad people we both understand they have been judged that by God correct Drop? So if one is judged by God to be bad, there is only one place they go, to the lake of fire. So that leaves the good, would you say those who have inherited the earth, and reside upon it forever and called meek by the Bible, would fall under the category of good sir? Mat 5:5 quoted from Ps 37:11,29

 

[rwb]

No sir, Rev 20:6 speaks of the first resurrection, those who are resurrected in it are not subject to the second death, in other words they are immortal, speaking of the 144k that are redeemed from this earth Rev 14:3. Since there is a first, that doesn't include everyone, and since verse 5 states that the rest of the dead do not come to life until the thousand years has ended, then obviously there has to be another resurrection. The reason they have not came to life is that they have to be tested as Adam was, through the releasing of satan for a period of time, after that thousand years has ended. If they pass the test they have now came to life, gaining the gift that God gives everlasting life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23

I agree that whosoever has part in the first resurrection have overcome the second death, but they will not become immortal until their bodies are physically resurrected and changed physically from mortal to immortal, and corruptible to incorruptible human bodies. Immortal and incorruptible bodies enable them to live forever with Christ on the new earth. Physical death is not swallowed up in victory until our physical bodies are given immortal and incorruptible life. At the same hour the saints are physically resurrected and changed, those who have not part in the first resurrection are also physically resurrected to damnation of the second death (LOF).

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The 144,000 redeemed from the earth are Old Covenant faithful of all the tribes of the children of Israel. We first read of them in Rev 7 being sealed by the Holy Spirit. In life they died in faith, believing the prophets words of the Messiah who would come to redeem them from death. But they died before Christ came and sent His Spirit who gives us eternal spiritual life that makes it possible for us to ascend to heaven after death spiritually alive as living souls.

Revelation 7:4 (KJV) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Having first been sealed with eternal spiritual life from the Holy Spirit, we next read of them in heaven, where they will remain until the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more. Then their bodies will be physically resurrected from the grave and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible, and reunited with our eternal spirit that comes with Christ when He returns the second time. Then we will once again be as we were in the beginning when God created mankind and everything was "very good".

We know the 144,000 are of all the tribes of the children of Israel of old because they are called "firstfruits unto God and the Lamb". Firstfruits meaning the first to be spiritually resurrected to ascend spiritually to heaven with Christ after His resurrection. This too proves how Christ defeated Satan by going into the abode of the dead and taking those held captive to death, now spiritually alive with Him to heaven.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The first resurrection we must all partake of is the resurrection of Christ. That means to be born again, born from above. Having spiritual life when we were once spiritually dead in trespasses and sins is to have part in the first resurrection. Only those of the first resurrection through Christ will attain immortal and incorruptible physical life after the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more.