2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[Spiritual Israelite]

Again, the meaning of any word that I use has precisely the meaning that I intend. In order to understand what I meant, you need to consider the context.

LOL. I see. So, you are allowed to make up your own definitions for words. Interesting. If your aim is to be as confusing as possible, then you are succeeding.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If you acknowledge that 2 Peter 3:10-12 is literal, then there is no basis whatsoever to place the destruction Peter wrote about 1,000+ years after the second coming of Christ. None

Even taking Peter literally, his message does not rule out a thousand year interval between the Second Advent and the big whoosh. I see no wording or vocabulary suggesting that the big whoosh comes immediately after the Second Advent. He literally says that the big whoosh is something that is included or inside of the Day of the Lord. The coming of the Lord is another thing that is included or inside the Day of the Lord.

Look at verse 11 here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Verse 11 is a message Peter is giving to his readers, which now includes you and me, right? Why would we need to concern ourselves with "what kind of people" we are while trying "to live holy and godly lives" as we "look forward to the day of God" if that day can't possibly affect us directly (as you believe)?

I don't understand your objection. Whether the big whoosh comes before or after the millennial period, no matter when it takes place, it affects us all. Even during the Millennial Period, which is temporary, believers will be looking forward to the NHNE. So what's the big deal?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Even taking Peter literally, his message does not rule out a thousand year interval between the Second Advent and the big whoosh.

Yes, it does. There is no indication in what Peter said whatsoever that there would be a thousand year interval between the arrival of the day of the Lord (which arrives upon the second coming of Christ) and the burning up of the heavens, the elements and the earth.

I see no wording or vocabulary suggesting that the big whoosh comes immediately after the Second Advent. He literally says that the big whoosh is something that is included or inside of the Day of the Lord.

Yes, but he also indicated that it is something that can potentially affect his readers if it happens in their lifetimes. That's why he told them that they ought to live holy and godly lives while they look forward to that day. You don't want to be someone who isn't godly and doesn't belong to Christ on that day because God's wrath is coming down on that day.

In your view, why was he telling his readers to be careful about living holy and godly lives as they looked forward to the arrival of the day of the Lord if the destruction he described couldn't possibly occur during their lifetimes?

The coming of the Lord is another thing that is included or inside the Day of the Lord.

I don't understand your objection.

Of course you don't. Are you even trying to understand it? I don't believe so.

Whether the big whoosh comes before or after the millennial period, no matter when it takes place, it affects us all.

LOL! If it comes 1,000+ years after the second coming of Christ then it can't possibly affect us! Who are you trying to kid here?

Even during the Millennial Period, which is temporary, believers will be looking forward to the NHNE. So what's the big deal?

You're not even trying here. It's one thing to disagree, but when you're not even seeing my point, that shows you're not even trying. You believe what you believe and have no interest in considering anything else. That is clear.

 

[CadyandZoe]

LOL. So, Peter commented on it for no reason? You think he was telling him to look at what the prophets had written and proceeded to talk about it himself while fully expecting them to ignore what he said and only look at what the OT prophets said?

No. Have you ever entered a conversation in the middle and were unaware of what people were talking about? I did. Last week. I showed up late to a zoom meeting already in progress. And I was lost almost the whole time. I could understand the words okay. But I was missing vital information (what was said before) essential to my understanding.

Efficiency is an aspect of human communication. Those who came to the meeting on time, were not going to back track to the beginning of the conversation to fill me in. But if they did fill me in, then I would have understood better.

The same is true of Peter's readers. He alerts them to the fact that they need to know what was already said previously in order to understand what he is about to say. He mentions three things in particular: (1) the creation of the world, (2) destruction of the world by water, and (3) destruction of the world by fire. His argument depends on familiarity with all three of these subjects.

Peter is being brief, and concise. What he says in two verses here is not the sum and substance of everything the Bible reveals about the destruction of the earth by fire.

The problem with your view is that you don't understand why it is said to come as a thief in the night. What that means is that it will come suddenly and unexpectedly.

What did I say that lead you to believe this about my point of view? Of course the day comes suddenly and unexpectedly. It doesn't follow, therefore, that the day isn't longer than a 24hour period.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

What passages like this one and 2 Peter 3:10-12 indicate is that it is the destruction accompanying the arrival of the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night. Paul indicated that the "destruction will come on them suddenly". And, significantly, he pointed out that "they will not escape". If you see 2 Peter 3:10-12 as describing the literal burning up of the earth then it becomes clear why Paul said that "they will not escape".

I'm not saying that you can't read it that way. Your interpretation is certainly plausible. But not necessarily so.

Why didn't Peter said we are looking forward to an earthly kingdom instead of the NHNE then?

Because the earthly kingdom isn't permanent.

What nonsense. There is no basis whatsoever for thinking that Paul taught about some other day of the Lord than Peter taught about. That is just plain ludicrous.

Did I say there was more than one day of the Lord? I don't think I did. I maintain that the Day of the Lord is at least a thousand years long. And the inauguration of the Day of the Lord is the locus and the fire armies spoke of by Joel the prophet. That is what Paul is talking about. Peter is talking about the big whoosh, which comes at the end of the Millennial period.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, it does. There is no indication in what Peter said whatsoever that there would be a thousand year interval between the arrival of the day of the Lord (which arrives upon the second coming of Christ) and the burning up of the heavens, the elements and the earth.

There is nothing in the text to contradict it either.

Yes, but he also indicated that it is something that can potentially affect his readers if it happens in their lifetimes. That's why he told them that they ought to live holy and godly lives while they look forward to that day. You don't want to be someone who isn't godly and doesn't belong to Christ on that day because God's wrath is coming down on that day.

It doesn't matter when the end of history takes place. We look forward to the NHNE because it is permanent and forever. If it takes place a thousand years after the return of Christ, it will still be permanent and forever.

In your view, why was he telling his readers to be careful about living holy and godly lives as they looked forward to the arrival of the day of the Lord if the destruction he described couldn't possibly occur during their lifetimes?

This is what I don't understand. Why does it need to happen during their lifetimes? Even those who believe that we are living during the Millennial period now, don't honestly expect it to take place in their own lifetimes? Remember, it comes like a thief in the night. We don't know when it will occur. So I don't know what you mean.

LOL! If it comes 1,000+ years after the second coming of Christ then it can't possibly affect us! Who are you trying to kid here?

How can it NOT affect us?

You're not even trying here. It's one thing to disagree, but when you're not even seeing my point, that shows you're not even trying. You believe what you believe and have no interest in considering anything else. That is clear.

The problem, in cases like these, is that one of us is making an assumption about what the other person believes, which is not the case. I can't know what assumptions you are making about my view, that aren't true. But I am pretty sure this is the problem.

I can only guess, but I know that in your view, the arrival of Jesus marks the end of history, i.e. eternity begins that moment. In my view, the Great White Throne Judgment marks the end of history.

Does that help?

 

[CadyandZoe]

LOL. I see. So, you are allowed to make up your own definitions for words. Interesting. If your aim is to be as confusing as possible, then you are succeeding.

I'm not saying that I make up my own definitions. I am using language to convey complete ideas, which not only involves the use of words, it also involves the use of sentences and paragraphs. I employ all of these tools to form a picture in your mind of what I am thinking.

Suppose I am talking on the radio and due to electrical interference, you miss a word now and again at random intervals. Your mind and brain are sophisticated enough to piece together the entire thought, even without the missing words. It all depends on how much of the message remains intact and whether the message is long enough. It doesn't really matter what the dictionary entry says about the word "consummation", I think you know what I meant.

 

[ewq1938]

I can only guess, but I know that in your view, the arrival of Jesus marks the end of history, i.e. eternity begins that moment. In my view, the Great White Throne Judgment marks the end of history.

I agree with you except I don't think "end of history" is valid language. Certainly once the GWTJ is over, the NHNE will occur and it's the end of the old age and the start of a new age that has no end.

 

[amigo de christo]

The BIG woosh . THE DAY OF THE LORD . And its much sooner than this generation realizes .
Question is will there be wailing or praising . if one knows and loves JESUS its gonna be much praising
if not , WAILING will be heard .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. Have you ever entered a conversation in the middle and were unaware of what people were talking about? I did. Last week. I showed up late to a zoom meeting already in progress. And I was lost almost the whole time. I could understand the words okay. But I was missing vital information (what was said before) essential to my understanding.

Efficiency is an aspect of human communication. Those who came to the meeting on time, were not going to back track to the beginning of the conversation to fill me in. But if they did fill me in, then I would have understood better.

The same is true of Peter's readers. He alerts them to the fact that they need to know what was already said previously in order to understand what he is about to say. He mentions three things in particular: (1) the creation of the world, (2) destruction of the world by water, and (3) destruction of the world by fire. His argument depends on familiarity with all three of these subjects.

Peter is being brief, and concise. What he says in two verses here is not the sum and substance of everything the Bible reveals about the destruction of the earth by fire.

Again, Peter indicates that it is something that could happen in the lifetimes of his readers, which is why he said what he did in 2 Peter 3:11. But, in your view, the destruction of the earth by fire cannot possibly happen during the lifetimes of any of Peter's readers.

What did I say that lead you to believe this about my point of view? Of course the day comes suddenly and unexpectedly. It doesn't follow, therefore, that the day isn't longer than a 24hour period.

How can 1,000 years come suddenly and unexpectedly?

I'm not saying that you can't read it that way. Your interpretation is certainly plausible. But not necessarily so.

Because the earthly kingdom isn't permanent.

Did I say there was more than one day of the Lord? I don't think I did.

Yes, you indicated that Paul wrote about a different day of the Lord than Peter did.

I maintain that the Day of the Lord is at least a thousand years long.

1,000+ years that comes suddenly and unexpectedly like a thief in the night. And you think this makes sense? Ugh.

And the inauguration of the Day of the Lord is the locus and the fire armies spoke of by Joel the prophet. That is what Paul is talking about. Peter is talking about the big whoosh, which comes at the end of the Millennial period.

They are not talking about different things! Maybe you see it as the same day of the Lord, but the destruction they talk about is the same. There is no basis whatsoever for thinking otherwise. In each case they indicate that the destruction accompanies the initial arrival of the day of the Lord.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not saying that I make up my own definitions. I am using language to convey complete ideas, which not only involves the use of words, it also involves the use of sentences and paragraphs. I employ all of these tools to form a picture in your mind of what I am thinking.

You used the word consummation in the context of the beginning of something when the definition of the word is that it is used to describe the end of something. So, you created your own definition of the word that doesn't exist in reality. If you can't understand what I'm telling you by now then this is hopeless.

Suppose I am talking on the radio and due to electrical interference, you miss a word now and again at random intervals. Your mind and brain are sophisticated enough to piece together the entire thought, even without the missing words. It all depends on how much of the message remains intact and whether the message is long enough. It doesn't really matter what the dictionary entry says about the word "consummation", I think you know what I meant.

So, rather than just acknowledging that you used the word inappropriately, you put the onus on me to understand what you mean. LOL!

 

[ewq1938]

The BIG woosh . THE DAY OF THE LORD . And its much sooner than this generation realizes

The "whoosh" is very far away according to Rev 20-21. We still have to wait for the second coming, millennium, satan's little season and army surrounding Jerusalem, satan cast into LOF, GWTJ, more LOF, and only then will the "whoosh" happen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is what I don't understand. Why does it need to happen during their lifetimes?

I'm saying it potentially can happen in the lifetimes of any of his readers because otherwise it wouldn't make sense for him to say that we need to be careful about living holy and godly lives while looking forward to that day. So, what he means is that we need to make sure we're on God's good side (need to make sure we are Christians) if that day comes in our lifetimes or else we will experience the wrath that Peter described. Why else would he say what he did in 2 Peter 3:11?

Even those who believe that we are living during the Millennial period now, don't honestly expect it to take place in their own lifetimes?

I expect that it can. Why not? From my perspective, we're talking about the day Christ returns here. Why would I not expect that could take place in my lifetime?

Remember, it comes like a thief in the night. We don't know when it will occur. So I don't know what you mean.

How can it NOT affect us?

How in the world can fire that comes down on the earth long after we're dead affect us?

The problem, in cases like these, is that one of us is making an assumption about what the other person believes, which is not the case. I can't know what assumptions you are making about my view, that aren't true. But I am pretty sure this is the problem.

You remember that I've told you before that you're terrible at communicating right? I still believe that. I'm just going by the things you're saying. And I'm reading every word. So, I think the problem here is you not being clear.

I can only guess, but I know that in your view, the arrival of Jesus marks the end of history, i.e. eternity begins that moment. In my view, the Great White Throne Judgment marks the end of history.

Does that help?

I believe that we will first be gathered to Him and then He will burn up the earth and then history ends. I see the GWTJ as occurring during eternity. Do you see it as occurring during history? Imagine how long it would take to judge billions of people. I can't see that as occurring within the realm of time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "whoosh" is very far away according to Rev 20-21. We still have to wait for the second coming, millennium, satan's little season and army surrounding Jerusalem, satan cast into LOF, GWTJ, more LOF, and only then will the "whoosh" happen.

If it's very far away then why did Paul and Peter both tell their readers to be careful and to be spiritually sober and alert in anticipation of the arrival of the day of the Lord?

 

[amigo de christo]

The "whoosh" is very far away according to Rev 20-21. We still have to wait for the second coming, millennium, satan's little season and army surrounding Jerusalem, satan cast into LOF, GWTJ, more LOF, and only then will the "whoosh" happen.

My advice is we better simply follow JESUS . Be looking for ye know not the day nor hour the LORD does come .
It aint far away . The desciples asked JESUS how it would look
Peter , paul and others also told us how it would be near the end . Open the eyes and start looking
for i tell us all that the coming of CHRIST draws nigh and its much sooner than folks realize .
Watch and be ready , lest that day overtakes one as a thief . You got a long list trying to justify
WHY its so far away . YET JESUS never spoke like that . HE said BE READY for ye know not .
Someone might be too in love with this world and his life in this world . But as for me
I leave us with the words of john . AMEN EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS . That is my home . WITH THE LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

If it's very far away then why did Paul and Peter both tell their readers to be careful and to be spiritually sober and alert in anticipation of the arrival of the day of the Lord?

Exactly .

 

[jeffweeder]

The "whoosh" is very far away according to Rev 20-21. We still have to wait for the second coming, millennium, satan's little season and army surrounding Jerusalem, satan cast into LOF, GWTJ, more LOF, and only then will the "whoosh" happen.

Just when you think you have heard everything...whoosh

If it is that far away then how could it possibly take us by Suprise?

2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord is coming just as a thief [comes unexpectedly and suddenly] in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety [all is well and secure!]” then [in a moment unforeseen] destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a woman with child, and they will absolutely not escape [for there will be no way to escape the judgment of the Lord]. 4 But you, believers, [all you who believe in Christ as Savior and acknowledge Him as God’s Son] are not in spiritual darkness [nor held by its power], that the day [of judgment] would overtake you [by surprise] like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day.

 

[rwb]

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

In Revelation 21, why is the New Jerusalem pictured as coming down from heaven?

Yes, His will be done on earth, and it will be on earth after this first earth passes away.

The New Jerusalem will come down from heaven as a bride adorned for her husband with the new heaven and new earth. That's when "thy will be done on earth" because only His people will dwell with Him there.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:3 (KJV) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[Taken]

Can you provide the verse or verses that say Christ will reign in His Kingdom ON THIS earth?

It’s a study of historical prophecy.
Here are a few verses;
Jer 23:56
Isaiah 11: 1-10
Rev 20: 4-6

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just when you think you have heard everything...whoosh

If it is that far away then how could it possibly take us by Suprise?

2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord is coming just as a thief [comes unexpectedly and suddenly] in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety [all is well and secure!]” then [in a moment unforeseen] destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a woman with child, and they will absolutely not escape [for there will be no way to escape the judgment of the Lord]. 4 But you, believers, [all you who believe in Christ as Savior and acknowledge Him as God’s Son] are not in spiritual darkness [nor held by its power], that the day [of judgment] would overtake you [by surprise] like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day.

Exactly. It seems that some people just completely ignore the context of passages like that.

 

[rwb]

It’s a study of historical prophecy.
Here are a few verses;
Jer 23:56
Isaiah 11: 1-10
Rev 20: 4-6

Which of those passages tell us Christ will reign on THIS earth?

Jeremiah 23 ends with vs. 40.