This Makes More Sense To Me Now

[Spiritual Israelite]

The first resurrection is in phases, happening several times.

We know this because John tells us, "blessed and holy is who has part in the first resurrection, on such the second death has no power (Rev. 20:6). The second death is spiritual death, eternal separation from God.

The phases of the first resurrection are as you mentioned, the 144,000, also the two witnesses of Rev., The resurrection of Thess. that Paul told us, which many call the Rapture. That will be every saint of God from the beginning of time to that day.

The second resurrection that John speaks of is a one time resurrection of the unsaved, they are the doomed, who will be cast into the lake of fire.

It's called the first resurrection (singular), not the first resurrections (plural). Stop trying to change scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I tend to agree. I guess my reason isn’t great though, when you consider we don’t know what happened with Lazarus…but the verse says it’s appointed to a man to die only once. Everyone maybe assumes Lazarus died a second time but…we don’t know for sure.

But then some would say only once means absolutely once, which doesn’t fit with “and we who are alive and remain.”

Scripture sometimes speaks generally about things that can have exceptions, but are normally (generally) true. It's true of most that they die once. But, there are exceptions like Lazarus.

If Lazarus was resurrected with an immortal body, then what does this verse mean:

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

Lazarus was obviously resurrected from the dead before Jesus was, so what does this verse mean when it indicates that Jesus was "the first to rise from the dead"? It means that He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. Paul talks about that in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.

With that being the case, it's not possible that Lazarus was resurrected with an immortal body and therefore Lazarus must have died again after being resurrected.

Just because there are exceptions doesn't mean Hebrews 9:27 isn't true. That verse is speaking of what is true a vast majority of the time.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It's called the first resurrection (singular), not the first resurrections (plural). Stop trying to change scripture.

Hey, he’s working it all out just as we all are, give him a break!
Ive learned at least something from everyone in here that I had never considered.

The thing that most worries and frets me is that so many of my brothers have a rigid insistence (as concerns prophecy) that they have it all right and their brothers have it all wrong. It is a rigidness that i don’t think God can work with to give a man further revelation and understanding. How does God give more understanding to a man who thinks he knows it all?

And when looking into prophecy, what an odd repeat I see, through small clues in the NT. They argued as we do about it.
”This scripture seems to suggest Messiah comes from Egypt…”
“Absolutely NOT, you fool, it clearly states He will come from Nazareth!”
”What?? Does anything good ever come from Nazareth??“
“Nope. You’re all wrong! Messiah clearly comes from Bethlehem and you are just ignoring scripture, you blind dunces!”

But when prophecy was fulfilled, which man was right? :) They all three had a right PIECE. He came from three different places at three different times, on three different “days.”

And here’s a bit of wisdom that maybe some man in here will see and consider - What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again.

 

[Christian Gedge]

”What?? Does anything good ever come from Nazareth??“

I'm told some good carpenters come from Nazareth.

 

[Timtofly]

It's called the first resurrection (singular), not the first resurrections (plural). Stop trying to change scripture.

The first resurrection is physical not spiritual. Stop trying to change Scripture.

The hour for the first resurrection has already come and gone.

 

[Timtofly]

With that being the case, it's not possible that Lazarus was resurrected with an immortal body and therefore Lazarus must have died again after being resurrected.

Just because there are exceptions doesn't mean Hebrews 9:27 isn't true. That verse is speaking of what is true a vast majority of the time.

Lazarus was the exception. How many rules in this post do you think there are?

You claim he was the exception to die twice. Some claim he was the exception of having a physical resurrection first.

Who gets to claim the exception?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

No. Just having a conversation.
The only reason I even ever went snooping around concerning it was because it never sat easy with me that Jesus slipped in His trust in God at the end and believed God had abandoned Him. My mind said, whatever is not of trust (faith) is sin…Jesus was spotless…doesn’t really compute…
But, why have you entangled Me or, to this entanglement I came and desired to come - to this entanglement was I born in human flesh, takes away the problem I saw that made me so uneasy.
Thats all.

I understand wanting to understand why Jesus is supposed to have doubted God, but that is not the case in reallity, just as Blessed is the poor on Spirit actually means blessed are those who can never "GET ENOUGH" of the holy spirit, for their is the kingdom of God. Some people take that to man God will bless poor people, which makes n o sense, being poor avails no more than being rich, but being thirsty for God's ways (His holy spirit's presence) makes perfect sense.

Jesus was simply broken hearted that God had to leave his presence in his most dire of days. Ever been so full of te holy spirit you were just giddy, happy, at peace ? Imagine that times 10,000 via Jesus, THEN IMAGINE THIS, that is all gone, and you have the Wickedness of every man/woman who ever lived upon your being and on your heart, the darkness had to be foreboding, Jesus had rapist men's sins on him, murderers sins on him, pedophiles sins on him, Hitlers sins on him, and in this aguish he simply cries out My God, My God, why have you left me? This makes me cry rivers just thinking about it tbh. He was perfect and in God's perfect will, then only our sins were upon him, utter filth was upon him.

So, I get why you wanted to understand it, but that is what I was trying to show you, God fir some reason showed this unto me 36 years ago as a young Christian, a lot of times I only get things years later, this just came to me right away. We may not get things fir years, but when we get things of the holy spirit we KNOW, that we KNOW, that we KNOW....

 

[ScottA]

Now you may as well claim there is no future at all. Nothing changes because of your imagination, that the Trumpets are not future.

The Trumpets are the restoration of Israel, and now you call them a phenomenon before Abraham even existed?

History has not been changed because you have a different perspective.

No, history has changed because mankind has "a different perspective."

But I have not stated my "imagination", but the fact of what is actually written, yet not considered as it was written. The fact is trees and grasses have burned since the beginning--which are the stated terms of the passage.

 

[ScottA]

That’s kind of what my thought was too. Sorry Scott.

Good!

Now you are thinking.

Now then, now that you can see that the passage might just mean "there is no future at all"...What future--that is, what times actually exist after the trumpet of God sounds in anyone's life? None--that is the point!

It is only after one comes to know that the clocks of the times of this world only start for each person when they are born and stop when they are no longer in the world, that the saying from Paul can be realized regarding the end, "but each one in his own order."

 

[Truth7t7]

That was not actually the question I was referring to. But rather, "Did trees and grasses not burn from Adam (which is the beginning of this world as it currently is)?" (Rhetorical)

The answer is, Yes. Which is to say the Seven Trumpets are not future.​

​

It changes everything.​

Of course the 7 Trumps are future, as the 7th Trump below shows (The End) in the time of final judgement as seen in Revelation 11:18 below

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 11:15-18KJV​

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good!

Now you are thinking.

Now then, now that you can see that the passage might just mean "there is no future at all"...What future--that is, what times actually exist after the trumpet of God sounds in anyone's life? None--that is the point!

It is only after one comes to know that the clocks of the times of this world only start for each person when they are born and stop when they are no longer in the world, that the saying from Paul can be realized regarding the end, "but each one in his own order."

Your suggestion that the "Trumps" of God applies to a person's individual life is out in left field, the 7 Trumps seen in scripture apply to a future literal world, that will culminate in (The End) of this physical world in final judgement at the 7th Trump

Revelation 11:15-18KJV​

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Good!

Now you are thinking.

Now then, now that you can see that the passage might just mean "there is no future at all"...What future--that is, what times actually exist after the trumpet of God sounds in anyone's life? None--that is the point!

It is only after one comes to know that the clocks of the times of this world only start for each person when they are born and stop when they are no longer in the world, that the saying from Paul can be realized regarding the end, "but each one in his own order."

But, you see, I didn’t see the passage could possibly mean what you said it did. Not that I even remember what passage we were discussing, as it was 2 weeks ago.
I was not agreeing or seeing what you see and neither was the other person.

I will give you another example that is exactly the same. Someone said the other day that “to whoever more is given, more is expected” is not for us but was said only for the Jews. My response was: well then, you may as well say NOTHING Jesus said is for me! But I don’t believe that and do not see it as a possibility, so if the person had then said, “Good! You are thinking now. You see this could mean nothing Jesus said is for you!”
I would quietly slip out of the conversation because I wouldn’t be dealing with someone who truly understands English and it’s nuances and devices.

When the man said, well then, you might as well say there’s no future at all!, he wasn’t seeing or saying what you think he was and when I agreed with him on that one thing, neither was I seeing or saying I saw the possibility You presented.

 

[ScottA]

Of course the 7 Trumps are future, as the 7th Trump below shows (The End) in the time of final judgement as seen in Revelation 11:18 below

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 11:15-18KJV​

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I know that this has not been understood since it was written...but ask yourself: When did "the time of the dead" begin to come? Has it not also been so since the beginning?

You sight the scripture--but have not understood.

 

[WPM]

I know that this has not been understood since it was written...but ask yourself: When did "the time of the dead" begin to come? Has it not also been so since the beginning?

You sight the scripture--but have not understood.

But "the time of the dead, that they should be judged" has not yet arrived until the second coming.

 

[ScottA]

Your suggestion that the "Trumps" of God applies to a person's individual life is out in left field, the 7 Trumps seen in scripture apply to a future literal world, that will culminate in (The End) of this physical world in final judgement at the 7th Trump

Revelation 11:15-18KJV​

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Again...your perspective is indeed most popular. However, what has not been considered nor understood, is that since Adam "the end" came when he died...just as it is for us all.

 

[ScottA]

But, you see, I didn’t see the passage could possibly mean what you said it did. Not that I even remember what passage we were discussing, as it was 2 weeks ago.
I was not agreeing or seeing what you see and neither was the other person.

I will give you another example that is exactly the same. Someone said the other day that “to whoever more is given, more is expected” is not for us but was said only for the Jews. My response was: well then, you may as well say NOTHING Jesus said is for me! But I don’t believe that and do not see it as a possibility, so if the person had then said, “Good! You are thinking now. You see this could mean nothing Jesus said is for you!”
I would quietly slip out of the conversation because I wouldn’t be dealing with someone who truly understands English and it’s nuances and devices.

When the man said, well then, you might as well say there’s no future at all!, he wasn’t seeing or saying what you think he was and when I agreed with him on that one thing, neither was I seeing or saying I saw the possibility You presented.

I understand your rationale, but the fact regarding the seven trumps passage remains the same: That the things written of it began at the beginning of time...that is when "trees and grasses" began to be "burnt." It is not a difficult thing to see, and yet it has not been seen by most. Which is relevant to the topic at hand by the signs of the times being misunderstood.

The point is, there is much of scripture that is not understood simply because it is assumed to be future, when the passage(s) actually [clearly] give the correct timing. That passage of the trumpets, if understood, would be insightful here as well--by the same logic that Jesus gave, saying, "If you do not understand this parable, how will you understand all parables." In this case, I used a parable to explain a parable to explain how to understand all parables. Which is likely the most important thing to grasp that is written here. But the two weeks and the topics of the parable language don't matter--it's the method that is important to understand...that you might understand all things.

 

[Truth7t7]

I know that this has not been understood since it was written...but ask yourself: When did "the time of the dead" begin to come? Has it not also been so since the beginning?

You sight the scripture--but have not understood.

Of course I understand the very clear and plain scripture in Revelation 11:15-18

Scott at every turn your bend and twist the literal interpretation of scripture, and change it into some metaphysical allegory, thats way out in left field, out of the ball park "Gone"!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Again...your perspective is indeed most popular. However, what has not been considered nor understood, is that since Adam "the end" came when he died...just as it is for us all.

Your claim is false, the end never comes upon the righteous, they are children of the "Living" who never die

Revelation 11:15-18 is speaking of a future literal event that will see the last day judgemebt of all that have lived

 

[Truth7t7]

In this case, I used a parable to explain a parable to explain how to understand all parables. Which is likely the most important thing to grasp that is written here. But the two weeks and the topics of the parable language don't matter--it's the method that is important to understand...that you might understand all things.

You haven't explained a thing in your claims of being the parable, of parables, of parables interpreter

Your presented theology is a word salad of confusion, regarding a simple understanding of scripture, you don't have a private interpretation Scott, far from "Walking Like Einstein"

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

I used a parable to explain a parable to explain how to understand all parables.

Real Big Smiles! :)