What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[RLT63]

The “someone” in question is God himself.

Me: God himself didn’t die.

You:

Option 1. God himself didn’t die.
Option 2. God himself did die.

If you can’t in good conscience choose Option 1 then don’t, but that’s what it would take for us to be in agreement.

Offered for your consideration, an article written by R.C. Sproul titled “Did God Die on the Cross?”

Did God Die on the Cross? | Ligonier Ministries

This is not hard for me. Jesus died on the cross. The Father did not. What we differ on is where Jesus went and what he did when he died and what will happen to us when we die. We have different views about that.

 

[RLT63]

Mystical dualists reject logic and mutual exclusives. IF Jesus died like us, then there is no exception.

He's not an exception. The difference is what we believe happens when someone dies

 

[Wrangler]

Where do you get all this nonsense?

Before you claim you didn't understand. Now, you must understand your nonsense to respond all huffy like that.

 

[Wrangler]

You just consciously, and intentionally, refuse to believe that Jesus is God. It's not a question of a lack of evidence, or a lack of your studying Scripture, you know exactly what the evidence is and you're well versed, but you just choose not to believe.

That is really bad for your spiritual health.

Thank you and I'm OK with that. The evidence just isn't there so my spiritual health is GREAT!

There is no verse that says anything like (modified for you) The nature of God is a trinity (bi-une) - consisting of the Father and Son who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

 

[Wrangler]

Can you show me any Scripture for your Mystical Dualism concept?

No. Hence, mystical dualists like you have no Scriptural support.

That you are trying to flip the burden of proof shows how fully you have been indoctrinated, somehow, someway.

 

[Wrangler]

He's not an exception. The difference is what we believe happens when someone dies

Hmmm. I think the difference is in recognizing that Jesus died - fully - rather than partially, as you allege.

 

[RLT63]

Hmmm. I think the difference is in recognizing that Jesus died - fully - rather than partially, as you allege.

I didn't allege anything I posted scripture

 

[RLT63]

Thank you and I'm OK with that. The evidence just isn't there so my spiritual health is GREAT!

There is no verse that says anything like (modified for you) The nature of God is a trinity (bi-une) - consisting of the Father and Son who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

You still got his theology all wrong. He believes there is one God. Jesus is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Correct me if I'm wrong Gen2Rev

 

[Wrangler]

I didn't allege anything I posted scripture

The history shows it was GEN who said it.

He died just like we will die.

AS IF there is any other part of Jesus.

If Jesus did not die - in his entirety - then his sacrifice was in vain because Scripture tells us death is the penalty for sin - not some partial payments may be acceptable.

Jesus, the man, died.

 

[Matthias]

This is not hard for me. Jesus died on the cross. The Father did not.

Easy as 1, 2, 3.

1. Jesus is God.
2. Jesus died on the cross.
3. God died on the cross.

Me: God didn’t die.

You: God died.

Conclusion: We aren’t in agreement.

What we differ on is where Jesus went and what he did when he died and what will happen to us when we die. We have different views about that.

We do differ on that, but we already knew that. What’s new to me is your belief that God died on the cross.

 

[Peterlag]

Some data on the image...

God made humans different from all the other creatures. In humans He put spirit in them. This is probably what it means to be made in His image. It does not mean God is a man and He made us like Him. He's spirit and He gave us spirit when he created humans. Eve did not want it so she gave it back to God. Well, we know it was not an apple. Adam also gave his back too. Now without spirit the human body will die. And that's what God told them. If you do this you will surely die. They said yeah, well... whatever. This put Adam and Even in a sin nature because they lost what made them holy. Now Christ got it back for us and so in Christ we no longer are alive to sin. Christ got back for us what Adam and Eve lost which is the gift of holy spirit.

 

[Matthias]

@RLT63 in scripture Jesus is called anthropos (“man”) not theanthropos (“Godman”). The earliest reference to Jesus theanthropos is in Origen’s writing titled De Principiis, which dates to c. A.D. 220 - nearly 200 years after the person whom scripture calls anthropos was crucified, resurrected to life, and ascended to his God and my God.

I had an interesting conversation with another member of the forum recently who said that a human person is the dust of the earth. When it came to Jesus, this person told me that Jesus was not the dust of the earth - which means that Jesus was not a human person.

Trinitarianism teaches us that the Triune God is one being, three persons.

Trinitarianism further teaches us that the second person of the Trinity did not become a human person when the second person of the Trinity took upon himself impersonal human nature at the Incarnation.

If the second person of the Trinity had become a human person then Jesus would be two persons, a divine person and a human person. The Council of Chalcedon discussed that possibility in A.D. 451 and decided that such a belief about Jesus is heresy.

Imagine the Triune God if they hadn’t made that decision: one being, four persons - with one of the four persons being a human person - one being, three divine persons, one human person. That’s a mess, and they wisely avoided it.

I’ll pause here briefly and then come back to the crucifixion of the second person of the Trinity.

 

[RLT63]

Easy as 1, 2, 3.

1. Jesus is God.
2. Jesus died on the cross.
3. God died on the cross.

Me: God didn’t die.

You: God died.

Conclusion: We aren’t in agreement.



We do differ on that, but we already knew that. What’s new to me is your belief that God died on the cross.

A man died on the cross. The Spirit doesn't die.

 

[Matthias]

A man died on the cross. The Spirit doesn't die.

“Jesus is God.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“Jesus died on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“God died on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“The second person of the Trinity died on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“God did not die on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“The second person of the Trinity did not die on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.”

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63 in scripture Jesus is called anthropos (“man”) not theanthropos (“Godman”). The earliest reference to Jesus theanthropos is in Origen’s writing titled De Principiis, which dates to c. A.D. 220 - nearly 200 years after the person whom scripture calls anthropos was crucified, resurrected to life, and ascended to his God and my God.

I had an interesting conversation with another member of the forum recently who said that a human person is the dust of the earth. When it came to Jesus, this person told me that Jesus was not the dust of the earth - which means that Jesus was not a human person.

Trinitarianism teaches us that the Triune God is one being, three persons.

Trinitarianism further teaches us that the second person of the Trinity did not become a human person when the second person of the Trinity took upon himself impersonal human nature at the Incarnation.

If the second person of the Trinity had become a human person then Jesus would be two persons, a divine person and a human person. The Council of Chalcedon discussed that possibility in A.D. 451 and decided that such a belief about Jesus is heresy.

Imagine the Triune God if they hadn’t made that decision: one being, four persons - with one of the four persons being a human person - one being, three divine persons, one human person. That’s a mess, and they wisely avoided it.

I’ll pause here briefly and then come back to the crucifixion of the second person of the Trinity.

Jesus is called the Son of God and the Son of Man for a reason. I used the example of the ark of the covenant to explain this some time ago.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is called the Son of God and the Son of Man for a reason. I used the example of the ark of the covenant to explain this some time ago.

In trinitarianism, Jesus isn’t a human person.

 

[GEN2REV]

No. Hence, mystical dualists like you have no Scriptural support.

That you are trying to flip the burden of proof shows how fully you have been indoctrinated, somehow, someway.

Do you realize that your position is tantamount to, if not exactly the same as, the damnable position of the Jews who believe(d) that Jesus (the Messiah) never came?

The OT warned (prophesied) that the Christ would be coming about a thousand years prior to the birth of Jesus Christ, and, as RLT63 kept pointing out, Isaiah 9:6 told everyone exactly who that Messiah would be. If you believe that God Almighty never came in the flesh, you are believing exactly what offends Him the most; you are believing and teaching that none of His selfless sacrifice ever took place - that Jesus the Christ, God in the flesh, never came to be.

You may stubbornly refuse to accept that, but of all those reading along who may think they agree with your position, many will reconsider such a stance in light of that realization.

 

[RLT63]

“Jesus is God.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“Jesus died on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“God died on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“The second person of the Trinity died on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“God did not die on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.

“The second person of the Trinity did not die on the cross.” I’ve heard that from trinitarians my entire life.”

I've always said God himself provided the blood but what did Jesus tell the thief on the cross who believed in him? Did the thief know Unitarian or Trinitarian theology? Did the thief know God was going to raise Jesus from the dead? Did the thief know if God died on the cross? Fortunately for us there is a passage in the Bible where someone asks " What must I do to be saved? " What was the answer?

 

[Matthias]

I've always said God himself provided the blood but what did Jesus tell the thief on the cross who believed in him? Did the thief know Unitarian or Trinitarian theology? Did the thief know God was going to raise Jesus from the dead? Did the thief know if God died on the cross? Fortunately for us there is a passage in the Bible where someone asks " What must I do to be saved? " What was the answer?

How does that relate to God died? Are you saying that you don’t know whether or not God died?

 

[RLT63]

How does that relate to God died?

Acts 16:30-31 More important than all the theological questions and knowledge you can acquire. This answers the most important question that can be asked.