What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Matthias]

After he rose from the dead. Not exclusively because of their interpretation of scripture

All of Jesus’ followers / disciples before he was resurrected from the dead were Jews.

 

[Matthias]

Constantine said several things that stand out to me. Here is one of them, following the Council of Nicaea -

“Let us, then, have nothing in common with the Jews, who are our adversaries.”

(Epistle of The Emperor To Those Bishops Who Were Not Present)

This explains a great deal of what we find in Church history, both pre-Constantine and post-Constantine.

 

[Matthias]

“D. The Concept of Power in the NT.

1. The Fact of Christ.

Like all other NT concepts, the concept of power is given its decisive impress by the fact of Christ. This sheds a distinctive light on the use, adoption and development of existing views. We must start, therefore, with the fact of Christ, and see what part is played in it by the concept of power.

There can be no disputing the link with the OT and Jewish picture of the Messiah. Of the OT Messiah Is. says that the spirit of counsel and strength rests upon Him (Is. 11:2). He calls him a mighty hero (9:5). …”

(Theological Dictionary of the New Testament Theology, Vol. 2, p. 299)

Isaiah calls him a mighty hero. Well now, why then didn’t the trinitarian translators render it that way?

***

Some of them actually do. (I bet they didn’t tell many of you that in Church. My trinitarian pastors didn’t tell me.)

 

[Wrangler]

The Bible is God's Word - also referred to as THE Word. THE Word is God.

You should have a faith in THE Word.

The Bible is being made into an idol. It is only parchment.

The Bible is a collection of writing men compiled. You will not find in the Bible God identifying precisely what encompasses his word, what books to leave in, what books to leave out.

 

[RLT63]

What are you not getting?

El gibbor doesn’t have to be translated “mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6. The translators had other options; options which would fit very well with the historic setting.

In all the references you gave it's translated as God

 

[Wrangler]

But who is the "He" that Jesus is referring to in John 8:24 if not the Father?

And how could He say this if He is not the Father 'Now that you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.'?
John 14:7
John 14:9

Do you notice how all your questions are to skirt around the fact that "Jesus is God" is not in Scripture. You always have to read into it and ask such questions that you'll undoubtedly be unhappy with my non-trinitarian answers.

 

[RLT63]

Constantine said several things that stand out to me. Here is one of them, following the Council of Nicaea -

“Let us, then, have nothing in common with the Jews, who are our adversaries.”

(Epistle of The Emperor To Those Bishops Who Were Not Present)

The Jews were adversaries to Christians. Remember Saul before he converted?

 

[Matthias]

In all the references you gave it's translated as God

The point is that it doesn’t have to be. See, for example, the Septuagint.

 

[Matthias]

The Jews were adversaries to Christians. Remember Saul before he converted?

Every single Jew was an adversary to Christians?

Jesus himself is a Jew. The earliest Christians were Jews. What would they think about what Constantine said?

See history for examples of how Christians have “had nothing in common with the Jews”.

 

[GEN2REV]

The Bible is being made into an idol. It is only parchment.

The Bible is a collection of writing men compiled. You will not find in the Bible God identifying precisely what encompasses his word, what books to leave in, what books to leave out.

Exactly because He's the author of all the books. Why would He tell us to take any out?

On the contrary, He tells us we're damned if we remove even a single word and not to diminish it in any way whatsoever.

Do you notice how all your questions are to skirt around the fact that "Jesus is God" is not in Scripture. You always have to read into it and ask such questions that you'll undoubtedly be unhappy with my non-trinitarian answers.

That sounds like a big fat excuse for dodging the questions. They're simple questions and you know I'm not trinitarian so why not just give your best answer?

I'd like to better understand how someone can conclude that Jesus is not God with all the available Scripture on the matter. Is there a chance you're reluctant to accept the possibility you have overlooked some things?

 

[RLT63]

Every single Jew was an adversary to Christians?

Jesus himself is a Jew. The earliest Christians were Jews. What would they think about what Constantine said?

See history for examples of how Christians have “had nothing in common with the Jews”.

I think we owe everything to the Jewish people. But I can understand that statement at the time. It did turn into something horrible. Martin Luther wrote some terrible things about the Jews himself

 

[Matthias]

I think we owe everything to the Jewish people. But I can understand that statement at the time.

There’s a great scene in Fiddler On the Roof where the priest’s assistant contemptuously refers to the Jews as “Christ killers”. That attitude sums up Martin Luther and his vicious anti-semitism (as well as much of Christianity, in general, through the centuries).

The sentiment expressed by Constantine also plays large in the development of trinitarian theology.

 

[Wrangler]

He tells us we're damned if we remove even a single word and not to diminish it in any way whatsoever.

We are not communicating. What books are included in that list; the Maccabees?

 

[Wrangler]

Do you notice how all your questions are to skirt around the fact that "Jesus is God" is not in Scripture. You always have to read into it and ask such questions that you'll undoubtedly be unhappy with my non-trinitarian answers.

That sounds like a big fat excuse for dodging the questions.

LOL. The fact that the trinity is not in the Bible, the fact that that not one Scripture verse directly says Jesus is God is not a big fat excuse. It's a simple fact.

They're simple questions and you know I'm not trinitarian so why not just give your best answer?

Sure. As soon as you admit the trinity is not in the Bible, admit that not one Scripture verse directly says Jesus is God.

 

[Matthias]

Well, back to trinitarian translations of Isaiah 9:6.

“For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us; the royal dignity he wears, and this the title that he bears - ‘A wonder of a counsellor, a divine hero, a father of all time, a peaceful prince!’”

(James Moffatt, The Bible A New Translation)

Dr. Moffatt, himself a trinitarian, knew full well that the passage he rendered as “a divine hero” is the Hebrew phrase el gibbor, and that it is used often in the Old Testament in regard to other men.

 

[Wrangler]

I'd like to better understand how someone can conclude that Jesus is not God with all the available Scripture on the matter.

Totally delusional.

Please cite the verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

Then, I'll concede.

 

[RLT63]

There’s a great scene in Fiddler On the Roof where the priest’s assistant contemptuously refers to the Jews as “Christ killers”. That attitude sums up Martin Luther and his vicious anti-semitism (as well as much of Christianity, in general, through the centuries).

The sentiment expressed by Constantine also plays large in the development of trinitarian theology.

Obviously I don't approve of anti Semitism.

 

[RLT63]

Well, back to trinitarian translations of Isaiah 9:6.

“For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us; the royal dignity he wears, and this the title that he bears - ‘A wonder of a counsellor, a divine hero, a father of all time, a peaceful prince!’”

(James Moffatt, The Bible A New Translation)

Dr. Moffatt, himself a trinitarian, knew full well that the passage he rendered as “a divine hero” is the Hebrew phrase el gibbor, and that it is used often in the Old Testament in regard to other men.

Wrangler was arguing that the passage is not about Jesus at all.

 

[Matthias]

Obviously I don't approve of anti Semitism.

Obviously.

Christianity never should have but, by and large, it did. Apologies from various denominations have been extended.

As horrible as that attitude was and is - wherever and whenever it is found - my primary reason for bringing it up is the impact it had on the development of doctrine. The Church gradually moved away from it’s roots in Judaism.

 

[Wrangler]

Wrangler was arguing that the passage is not about Jesus at all.

Hey, I can be right - that Jesus is not God - for many a reasons.