What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[amigo de christo]

God communicated His message in ways the people could understand. Read Genesis. Did God tell us the earth was round, that it orbits the sun or explain gravity? People weren't ready for these concepts. Jesus is The Son of God. He has been for all eternity.

God communicated HIS FINAL MESSAGE BY THE SON . LETS TRY and REMEMBER That lest men lead us astray .
THUS IF JESUS taught it , said it BELEIVE IT

 

[Wrangler]

God communicated His message in ways the people could understand.

That’s a different point that claiming there is revealed word of God outside Scripture.

He did not regard His equality something to be grasped, means though this concept was important, man cannot fully grasp it,

It doesn’t mean that at all. Talk about Creative interpretation!

Let me ask you something. If man cannot fully grasp it, on what basis are you claiming to grasp it?

 

[RLT63]

He did not regard His equality something to be grasped, means though this concept was important, man cannot fully grasp it, so He didn't stress it. If He did regard it, then He would have shown His glory to everyone. Why not just float up into the air, appear like the brillance of the sun and show everyone what you can do? No, He came as a suffering servant, for a purpose. Soon He will come as a KING _ in JUDGMENT _ GLORY _ AND POWER. Then you will bow your knee to Him.
Most translations use grasp but others are different:
First, an expanded amplified version:
AMP “who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];

KJV “thought it not robbery to be equal with God” - I don't really like that one. Although the Pharisees accused Him of claiming to be God, which is why they sought out to kill Him. They though He we trying to rob the glory from God.

CSB “did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.” He did not exploit His divinity, take advantage of His powers. He relinquished His glory temporarily to empty Himself and become a man. "The WORD became flesh and dwelt among us". Here is the concept presented, by Him, but not directly.

ERV “but he did not think that his being equal with God was something to use for his own benefit.”

NIV “ Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;”

So all in all, he did not shove it in your face, exploit His deity and so you don't grasp that He is God.

Thanks for that post. Those versions make it very clear, especially the Amplified and the CSB. I will go with the scholars who translated those versions rather than the armchair theologians who deny the deity of Christ.

 

[RLT63]

That’s a different point that claiming there is revealed word of God outside Scripture.



It doesn’t mean that at all. Talk about Creative interpretation!

I don't claim that the Word of God is revealed outside of scripture.

 

[RLT63]

God communicated HIS FINAL MESSAGE BY THE SON . LETS TRY and REMEMBER That lest men lead us astray .
THUS IF JESUS taught it , said it BELEIVE IT

1Pe 1:18

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors,
1Pe 1:19

but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
1Pe 1:20

He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake

 

[Wrangler]

So all in all, he did not shove it in your face, exploit His deity and so you don't grasp that He is God.

Thanks for that post. Those versions make it very clear, especially the Amplified and the CSB. I will go with the scholars who translated those versions rather than the armchair theologians who deny the deity of Christ.

I admit there are trinitarian translations but there are many translations that do not impose trinitarian dogma but respect the unitarian text that came from the monotheist Bible writers.

AMPC
But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.
BRG
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
CSB
Instead he emptied himself by assuming the form of a servant, taking on the likeness of humanity. And when he had come as a man,
CEB
But he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave and by becoming like human beings. When he found himself in the form of a human,
CJB
On the contrary, he emptied himself, in that he took the form of a slave by becoming like human beings are. And when he appeared as a human being,
CEV
Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.
DARBY
but emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in [the] likeness of men;
DLNT
but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a slave, having come in the likeness of humans. And having been found as a man in outward-appearance,
DRA
But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
EHV
but he emptied himself by taking the nature of a servant. When he was born in human likeness, and his appearance was like that of any other man,
ESV
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
GNV
But he made himself of no reputation, and took on him the form of a servant, and was made like unto men, and was found in shape as a man.
GW
Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.

No reference to equality with God, NOT considering, etc.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes he could only reveal what they could understand.

At least you accept that your doctrine contradicts what the the Bible actually says.

I don't claim that the Word of God is revealed outside of scripture.

LOL. Same question I asked Bruno. Given that Jesus did not teach the trinity in the revealed word of God, on what basis do you claim that understanding is valid?

 

[RLT63]

AMPC
But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.
BRG
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
CSB
Instead he emptied himself by assuming the form of a servant, taking on the likeness of humanity. And when he had come as a man,
CEB
But he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave and by becoming like human beings. When he found himself in the form of a human,
CJB
On the contrary, he emptied himself, in that he took the form of a slave by becoming like human beings are. And when he appeared as a human being,
CEV
Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.
DARBY
but emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in [the] likeness of men;
DLNT
but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a slave, having come in the likeness of humans. And having been found as a man in outward-appearance,
DRA
But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
EHV
but he emptied himself by taking the nature of a servant. When he was born in human likeness, and his appearance was like that of any other man,
ESV
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
GNV
But he made himself of no reputation, and took on him the form of a servant, and was made like unto men, and was found in shape as a man.
GW
Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.

No reference to equality with God, NOT considering, etc.

6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained,
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
who, existing in the form of God,

In every one of those quotes you left out verse 6.
Put them all up with verse 6 for context. Very dishonest what you did here.
Click on the links for every version you quoted and see what verse 6 says.

 

[RLT63]

LOL. Same question I asked Bruno. Given that Jesus did not teach the trinity in the revealed word of God, on what basis do you claim that understanding is valid?

The Bible

 

[Wrangler]

Put them all up with verse 6 for context. Very dishonest what you did here.

Not dishonest at all. I thought the focus was on v7 since we already covered v6.

Let me type this slowly so you will understand. There is no verse in Scripture that says Jesus was God. v6 re-states Genesis, man being made in the image of God, Jesus was in the form of God. Image of God. Form God. Not is God.

Again, my savings account is in the form of a pig. It is not a pig. Language usage. Compare to Joel 2:17 & Is 45:5, where Jesus is not God but Yahweh alone is God. Big difference.

I am Yahweh your Elohim, and there is no other. NOG
I am the LORD your God, and there is no other. NLT

I am Yahweh, and there is no other. There is no other Elohim besides me. NOG
I am the LORD; there is no other God. NLT

 

[amigo de christo]

1Pe 1:18

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors,
1Pe 1:19

but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
1Pe 1:20

He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake

God knew from the beginning it would be HIS WORD and HIS WORD IS HE that would be the savoir of the world .
KNOWN unto GOD are ALLLLLLLL Things

 

[RLT63]

Not dishonest at all. I thought the focus was on v7 since we already covered v6.

Let me type this slowly so you will understand. There is no verse in Scripture that says Jesus was God. v6 re-states Genesis, man being made in the image of God, Jesus was in the form of God. Image of God. Form God. Not is God.

Again, my savings account is in the form of a pig. It is not a pig. Language usage. Compare to Joel 2:17 & Is 45:5, where Jesus is not God but Yahweh alone is God. Big difference.

I am Yahweh your Elohim, and there is no other. NOG
I am the LORD your God, and there is no other. NLT

I am Yahweh, and there is no other. There is no other Elohim besides me. NOG
I am the Lord; there is no other God. NLT

You are just avoiding dealing with what verse 6 says.

 

[BeyondET]

It's about reading with understanding.
Lets look at the first issue you have.
Isaiah states that Jesus "shall be called" not now....in the Kingdom Age Isaiah 9:7 cmp Luke 1:32, not that he is now the mighty God.
Future tense is an issue on two fronts. 1. Jesus did not preexist which fits the tense and the question you should ask is why in the Kingdom age will Jesus be referred to in this way?

You keep Jesus buried in the tomb with that theory, the resurrection was the seating.

 

[BeyondET]

@BeyondET

In whose Glory is he coming in?

Of God Father, God Jesus my Lord said to your Lord.

 

[face2face]

Of God Father, God Jesus my Lord said to your Lord.

All good you didn't want to enter.

 

[dhh712]

Hi @dhh712 "So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress" (Romans 7.3).

Very good! Did not remember that one. That pretty much does say that.

 

[Johann]

see I’m not convince anymore it is an honest question.

Two kinds of questions
Dokimadzo
Peiradzo
Most here are asking in a surreptitious ekpeiradzo

 

[Johann]

I bet some of us on this site follow the all inclusive path . You know the one that says other religoins
other paths and etc FIND their way to GOD TOO by their lovey lovey and good works .

I concur, few, chosen, remnant, elect is a deathblow to "all inclusive path"
And the Admin is not doing his/her job, everything is spiraling downwards at a tremendous pace, and this door of utterance is closing fast.
Guess we might "include" all foreign religions in the name of "love"

 

[Peterlag]

see I’m not convince anymore it is an honest question. Not because I’m assuming but the action has been a disregard for every verse anyone has given…not even a slight pause to consider it. Instead an immediate shooting down what you claim to honestly be interested in at least getting feedback from others on. At this point I think I could throw the entire bible at you …and there wouldn’t be anything in it of interest toward the question you genuinely say “I want verses”! “Come on guys…give me verses!”

how about: Revelation 1:8 maybe someone has already posted it, a ton of verses have been posted on this thread.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Revelation 1:8 Lexicon: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Who do you say is the First and the Last? The Alpha and the Omega? Who do you say is the Almighty? Is the Almighty the first and the Last?


Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

^if Christ Jesus “Alpha” …then when was Christ “Omega”?
if God, the Almighty …then when was God, the Almighty “Alpha”?

See pointless yea? Like I said I’m skeptical of your wanting any answer, but instead wanting an opportunity to say “y’all have no answer.” According to you, that is right. “Y’all have no answer.” Because you go “ignore…no answer…ignore…no an answer…ignore…no answer….you should title the thread instead (16 pages in) “no answer” it is pretty obvious …



no answer…ignore yet “I honestly want an answer” ….wrong or right, regardless of where they are at by your estimate in agreeing with you or disagreeing with you…many of answered yet then you blame them for mocking you…like you are not mocking in trying to sell “I honestly want an answer” which isn’t really being truthful or open.

See you just don't get the question. The Alpha and Omega does not tell why Jesus should be God. It simply says I am God because I'm the beginning and the end. Why do I have a car? And then you might say well, it's really there or it really has 4 tires. I'm looking for why not is the car real.

 

[Peterlag]

God is spirit. Jesus spirit was not born, he pre-existed since the beginning.
"Before Abraham was, I Am." - pre-existance
"I AM the Alpha and Omega". - pre-existance
"I Am the Bread of Life". - He didn't become the bread if life, He was always the bread of Life.
He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
All life is created through Him and by Him.
He is the Creator!.
In Him all things consist (are held together). Colossians 1:16-17 That means every atom in the universe. That is power and authority that cannot be given to a man. He is God.

Your whole theology is a dishonor and disgrace to Him. You don't know this and therefore aren't doing it purposely, but you are grieving the Holy Spirit ... oops, that's right, you also think He is a force, not a person. How can you grieve a force? That would imply the force has feelings. Opps ... feelings would imply a mind. A mind implies a person who lives in the Temple of the born again Christian, communicates, loves and guides them ... He also grieves about this.
Living in every Christian implies omnipresence. Knowing all truth implies omniscience.
And the power behind preparing our hearts, sanctifying us times billions implies omnipotence.
This false, non-Trinitarian theology is the reason why those who adhere to it are small in numbers and growth - at a snails pace if any. The Holy Spirit will not grow a church that has false doctrines.
The growth of a fruit tree happens when it is nourished with water and the proper nutrients and yield fruit and the harvest plentiful.
I got 500-600 peaches off my tree this year. Imagine a tree just producing only a few peaches, wouldn't you think the caretaker is doing something wrong?

No not pre-existance nor does it answer the question as to why should Jesus be God.