What is the third woe?

[Davy]

My Point is that if you read OT prophecies, time was immaterial in them in the sense that one paragraph can speak of three different time frames from the first advent to the second advent, to a near fulfillment for Israel. this is why the Pharisees could not figure out that Jesus had to come first as a suffering servant in the first century but instead were looking for a king to free them from the oppression of the romans. As an example of this, read Micah 5

But they had Psalms 22, where king David was given to prophesy of Christ's crucifixion about a thousand years before it happened. Why didn't they believe on Jesus from that evidence they were 'supposed' to understand, being teachers?

Just as it is still to this day, the main reason why many unbelieving Jews do not understand about Christ Jesus is because God blinded them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (Romans 11).

And Satan's little helpers among the blinded Jews, involve a hidden group of foreigners among the Jews, because early on in Israel's history, God told them to destroy the seven Canaanite nations of Deuteronomy 20, but they failed, and instead allowing those Canaanites to live among them. These are the 'crept in unawares' that Jude pointed to, and the "tares" that Lord Jesus pointed to. And God showed in Judges 2 and Judges 3 that because Israel disobeyed Him in that, He would leave those Canaanites among Israel to test them with. Thus the corrupt scribes of Israel (who were not born of Israel, but were of the Kenites of Canaan), and thus also many of the Pharisees and Saduccees were of the Canaanites that had crept in and corrupted God's Word by supplanting it with their Babylonian Talmud teachings instead.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. Revelation 9:12
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Revelation 11:14

There is never a third verse saying the third woe is complete in revelation. So what is the third woe? The only time the word "woe" is used after Revelation 11:14 is in Revelation 12:12. Is this the third woe? Is the seventh trumpet the third woe?

ewq1938 IS SPOT ON HERE

The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, the 7th Trump thus brings 7 Vials, so the 3rd Woe = ALL 7 Vials.

The problem many have is they do not understand Rev. 11 is not a real time event, its a Parenthetical chapter. We see Woe #2 spoken about but we get the actual 2nd Woe in Rev. 9, we see the 3rd Woe also spoken as coming soon, but we see the actual 3rd Woe happening in Rev. 16 via the 7 Vials.

 

[ewq1938]

ewq1938 IS SPOT ON HERE

The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, the 7th Trump thus brings 7 Vials, so the 3rd Woe = ALL 7 Vials.

The problem many have is they do not understand Rev. 11 is not a real time event, its a Parenthetical chapter. We see Woe #2 spoken about but we get the actual 2nd Woe in Rev. 9, we see the 3rd Woe also spoken as coming soon, but we see the actual 3rd Woe happening in Rev. 16 via the 7 Vials.

Revelation 9 shows the beginning of the 2nd woe/6th trump. Revelation 11 also shows the 6th trump, but mostly of how it ends. It is as "real" as what is found in Revelation 9. The 3rd woe is found beginning in Revelation 11 as well with more info on 3d woe events in Revelation 16 as well as Revelation 19. It's normal for Revelation to break up things like this, covering parts of something in multiple chapters.

 

[David H.]

ewq1938 IS SPOT ON HERE

The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, the 7th Trump thus brings 7 Vials, so the 3rd Woe = ALL 7 Vials.

The problem many have is they do not understand Rev. 11 is not a real time event, its a Parenthetical chapter. We see Woe #2 spoken about but we get the actual 2nd Woe in Rev. 9, we see the 3rd Woe also spoken as coming soon, but we see the actual 3rd Woe happening in Rev. 16 via the 7 Vials.

my timeline involves aligning the thunders. Just looking at the seals trumpets and vials, the seventh of these all line up, and foretell the day of the LORD, When God makes his presence felt in wrath, and the thunders being an allusion from the Old testament to the wrath of God/ Day of the LORD.

Now I see the seals as a long term series of events, (We are awaiting the completion of the number of the saints of the fifth seal, and the sixth and seventh to occur) the trumpets as confined to the Great tribulation, and the vials as being contained in the time of the sixth and seventh trumpet, as such there is overlap between the three, that adds dimension to one another, and helps to triangulate when events will take place during that great tribulation. There are very few people that can see this, and can conceive this because their minds think in two dimensions, and thus linearly. As someone who has designed and built buildings my mind naturally thinks in three dimensions, even when looking at a two dimensional drawing such as a floor plan.... I merely applied this mindset to eschatology and particularly the Book of Revelation, and it was an eye opener for sure, as all of a sudden i did not need the parenthesis to be added to the book. Not only that things explain each other more in depth, by viewing it this way.... most people can concoct a floor plan for a building, few can visualize how the roof is going to sit over that floor plan.... inevitably, the more complex the plan the more likely it will be to even place a proper roof over the plan that slopes the right way and does not have valleys running into valleys thus creating a standing puddle on the roof. Revelation is like this, when viewed linearly it becomes complex and burdensome and inevitably the roof you try and put on it won't work thus contradictions show up, and Parenthesis are required etc.... But when seen as a layered prophecy three dimensionally, the roof constructs itself, and the contradictions and parenthesis are not required and the simplicity of the timeline shines through.

 

[ewq1938]

my timeline involves aligning the thunders. Just looking at the seals trumpets and vials, the seventh of these all line up

No, they don't line up. 30 min of silence in heaven doesn't match the other two at all. There are similar issues trying to align any of them together.

Now I see the seals as a long term series of events, (We are awaiting the completion of the number of the saints of the fifth seal, and the sixth and seventh to occur)

The seals only give glimpses of the future. Nothing happened when they were opened in the real world. The saints in the 5th simply are those who died before the Great Tribulation started and the waiting period is the Great Tribulation, then after that is the wrath of God and they are avenged.

the trumpets as confined to the Great tribulation

No, the first 5 are before the Great Tribulation. The 6th is the Great Tribulation, proven in Revelation 11 since events of the end of the Great Tribulation are shown just before the 7th trump sounds, the return of Christ.

and the vials as being contained in the time of the sixth and seventh trumpet,

Close. The vials are poured once the 7th trump sounds.

as such there is overlap between the three, that adds dimension to one another, and helps to triangulate when events will take place during that great tribulation. There are very few people that can see this, and can conceive this because their minds think in two dimensions, and thus linearly. As someone who has designed and built buildings my mind naturally thinks in three dimensions, even when looking at a two dimensional drawing such as a floor plan.... I merely applied this mindset to eschatology and particularly the Book of Revelation, and it was an eye opener for sure, as all of a sudden i did not need the parenthesis to be added to the book. Not only that things explain each other more in depth, by viewing it this way.... most people can concoct a floor plan for a building, few can visualize how the roof is going to sit over that floor plan.... inevitably, the more complex the plan the more likely it will be to even place a proper roof over the plan that slopes the right way and does not have valleys running into valleys thus creating a standing puddle on the roof. Revelation is like this, when viewed linearly it becomes complex and burdensome and inevitably the roof you try and put on it won't work thus contradictions show up, and Parenthesis are required etc.... But when seen as a layered prophecy three dimensionally, the roof constructs itself, and the contradictions and parenthesis are not required and the simplicity of the timeline shines through.

Fun, but no amount of dimension-thinking will help anyone understand one tiny bit of Revelation. It purely and only can be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[David H.]

Fun, but no amount of dimension-thinking will help anyone understand one tiny bit of Revelation. It purely and only can be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will use your personal experience to illustrate and teach truth. For example Hosea used his prostitute wife to teach him what the whoredom of Israel felt like to God.

No, they don't line up. 30 min of silence in heaven doesn't match the other two at all. There are similar issues trying to align any of them together.

The fifth seal was opened with the Martyrdom of Stephen, Whenever God decides that the number of saints to be killed is complete is when the sixth seal can occur.... since the saints are being killed until the beast is destroyed, then the sixth seal cannot be until then. the beast rules during the great tribulation, the saints will go through and face the beast and his war on the saints throughout this time.

Fun, but no amount of dimension-thinking will help anyone understand one tiny bit of Revelation. It purely and only can be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit.

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour....And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. (Revelation 8:1-5) (The seventh seal)

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:19) seventh trumpet

And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.....And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Revelation 16:18-21

Notice the similarities. Now read Revelation 16:19-20..... where is this described in revelation? chapters 17-18 obviously, but the winepress of God's wrath is found in chapter 14 as well where Babylon is seen "fallen fallen" Now you are starting to see revelation in three dimensions. All these five visions arrive at the day of the LORD.

The Old testament precedent for this being the day of the LORD, when he makes his presence known....

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. (Exodus 20:18-19)

 

[Timtofly]

ewq1938 IS SPOT ON HERE

The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, the 7th Trump thus brings 7 Vials, so the 3rd Woe = ALL 7 Vials.

The problem many have is they do not understand Rev. 11 is not a real time event, its a Parenthetical chapter. We see Woe #2 spoken about but we get the actual 2nd Woe in Rev. 9, we see the 3rd Woe also spoken as coming soon, but we see the actual 3rd Woe happening in Rev. 16 via the 7 Vials.

Revelation 9 shows the beginning of the 2nd woe/6th trump. Revelation 11 also shows the 6th trump, but mostly of how it ends. It is as "real" as what is found in Revelation 9. The 3rd woe is found beginning in Revelation 11 as well with more info on 3d woe events in Revelation 16 as well as Revelation 19. It's normal for Revelation to break up things like this, covering parts of something in multiple chapters.

The 2nd woe is totally over in the 9th chapter. It is over before the 7 Thunders. Just because we do not know the details, does not mean they will not happen. Revelation 11 is only about the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 11 is not about the 6th Trumpet nor the 2nd woe at all.

Why do you all dismiss the 7 Thunders as if they do not even exist? Revelation 11:14 only brings the reader back to the narrative. It does not indicate the events of Revelation 11 are part of the 6th Trumpet. The two witnesses do not even start their witness until Satan is given 42 months. The 144k are on earth as witnesses during the Trumpets and Thunders. The 2 witnesses are only during the last 42 months, while the Lamb and 144k are on mount Sion.

Revelation 11 is the parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 12 is a parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 13 is the week of the 7th Trumpet split in half like Daniel 9:27 declares. The AoD is the 42 months of utter abomination on earth. There is no salvation by faith during this time. The only salvation is chopping one's head off to avoid the mark. Those who choose the mark are removed from the Lamb's book of life. Those who chop their heads off will be resurrected after Armageddon at the end of the 42 months.

The 2 witnesses are killed after the same 42 months as mentioned in Revelation 13. The 3rd woe is the 42 months of AoD granted to Satan. The 7th Trumpet is the end of the final harvest celebration. But the celebration is cut in half, because of the 3rd woe. The 7 Vials are poured out after the 42 months as judgment against Satan and his Babylonian type kingdom along with the FP and his harlot religion. Revelation 17 and 18 describe the end of this 42 month government. They are the parenthetical chapters of the 7 Vials, describing Armageddon.

 

[ewq1938]

The fifth seal was opened with the Martyrdom of Stephen

No, real world events did not open any seals. Christ opened the seals.

, Whenever God decides that the number of saints to be killed is complete is when the sixth seal can occur.... since the saints are being killed until the beast is destroyed, then the sixth seal cannot be until then. the beast rules during the great tribulation, the saints will go through and face the beast and his war on the saints throughout this time.

You are still misunderstand the seals. They are not events that happen when opened. They only show events of the future.

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour....And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. (Revelation 8:1-5) (The seventh seal)

You are adding verses that aren't part of the 7th seal.

The Old testament precedent for this being the day of the LORD, when he makes his presence known....

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. (Exodus 20:18-19)

Not a match.

 

[David H.]

No, real world events did not open any seals. Christ opened the seals.

The seals are a hedge of protection over the faithful, they were opened when Christ ascended to heaven (The first five, then there was a pause for the mystery of the church age. When did Jesus "Prevail" (Revelation 5:5) When he died, and rose again, and returned and ascended to heaven.... the victory was .won 2000 years ago, and the seals began to be opened then. All the events of the seals are "real world events" The four horsemen, the persecution of the saints, the sun and moon being darkened etc. The opening of the seals have real world ramifications for the church.... a hedge was lifted which allowed Stephen to be martyred, thus beginning the number of the saints that are to be killed.... this goes on until the Great tribulation when the beast makes war on the saints and overcomes them.

You are still misunderstand the seals. They are not events that happen when opened. They only show events of the future.

Read again Revelation 5, and tell me when Christ prevailed, is this a past event or a future event.... I say he has already prevailed on the cross, what is left is for us the church to prevail over the devil (Revelation 12:10-11)

You are adding verses that aren't part of the 7th seal.

Revelation 8:5 is part of the seventh seal... read it again in context.

Not a match.

That is not a match because God did not come in Wrath to the Israelites, what is missing is the hailstones of His wrath. OT Precedent for this from the oldest book in the Bible:
Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? (Job 38:22-23)

Or Isaiah 30:30, and Ezekiel 38:22.

Your not seeing because you do not want to see....

 

[ewq1938]

The seals are a hedge of protection over the faithful, they were opened when Christ ascended to heaven (The first five, then there was a pause for the mystery of the church age.

What pause? Where in the text is such a pause? The text shows me he was found and worthy to open all the seals and that's what we see him doing through John's own eyes.

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


The seals would be opened so the book could be opened, the whole point of this entire scene. It was not to open some seals and leave the book closed for thousands of years.

When did Jesus "Prevail" (Revelation 5:5) When he died, and rose again, and returned and ascended to heaven.... the victory was .won 2000 years ago, and the seals began to be opened then.

Sure but not just some of the seals but all of them.

All the events of the seals are "real world events"

But not at the time they were opened. The events are future events that were to take place long after the seals were opened.

Revelation 8:5 is part of the seventh seal... read it again in context.

The 7th seal is only about a 30 min silence in heaven, nothing else.

 

[David H.]

What pause? Where in the text is such a pause? The text shows me he was found and worthy to open all the seals and that's what we see him doing through John's own eyes.

Read again, Revelation 5. no man was found until, the Lamb arrived in heaven to open the seals.... that happenned when Christ ascended... Christ prevailed, past tense, and the church has been dealing with false leaders (Nicolaitans), and wars, and famines and pestilences and martyrdom ever since then. But we have not seen the sixth seal, or the seventh seal yet. This is just simple common sense and reading of the text.... When did Christ prevail is when the seals were opened. Past tense, prevailed.... This was a past event from when John received his vision. The fifth seal has a number that need to be fulfilled. I Use the ESV here because it uses the word number so that you can see this...
Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers[fn] should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:11, ESV)

Well, has the murder of the saints ever ceased yet? no, therefore the sixth seal has yet to be opened and we are living in the time of the fifth seal. It will not cease until The second coming when Christ Destroys the beast with the brightness of his coming.... After the beast has made war on the saints and overcome them.

The 7th seal is only about a 30 min silence in heaven, nothing else.

False, read the passage again. the silence is part of it but the thunderings ensue the silence. You just do not want to admit you are wrong, Just like I showed you that Christ prevailed at the crucifixion and resurrection and Ascencion. When he ascended, he entered heaven the man worthy to open the seals.... the seals are a long prophecy lasting 2000 years.

 

[ewq1938]

Read again, Revelation 5. no man was found until, the Lamb arrived in heaven to open the seals.... that happenned when Christ ascended... Christ prevailed, past tense

Yes and so all the seals have been opened which was my point and the point of quoting the verse I did.

But we have not seen the sixth seal, or the seventh seal yet. This is just simple common sense and reading of the text....

A common reading is never good enough. We haven't "seen" any seals because that's not how any of the seals work. The events the seals describe did not happen when each seal was opened.

When did Christ prevail is when the seals were opened. Past tense, prevailed....

Yet you argue Christ has not opened the last two seals. He opened all of them then opened the book! That was his purpose at that time.

This was a past event from when John received his vision. The fifth seal has a number that need to be fulfilled.

So? That happens during one of the trumps, not at the opening of the seal. The seals talk about events of the trumpets. They are not separate events that happen before the trumps.

Well, has the murder of the saints ever ceased yet?

The question really has no importance. The seal presents already murdered saints wanting vengeance and they are told to wait until more are killed. Only after that does God take vengeance through his wrath. That waiting period is the Great Tribulation when satan has many saints killed.

no, therefore the sixth seal has yet to be opened and we are living in the time of the fifth seal.

You are still making the very popular error of thinking the events of the seals happen when they are opened. No event took place when they were opened as they are only showing future events. Thus, all 7 seals can and have been opened. We are waiting for the event of the 1st seal opened to occur, as well as the events in the 5th and 6th seals.

False, read the passage again. the silence is part of it but the thunderings ensue the silence. You just do not want to admit you are wrong

You can't even see that you are wrong so admitting it isn't even possible. You can't until you actually understand the seals properly.

, Just like I showed you that Christ prevailed at the crucifixion and resurrection and Ascencion. When he ascended, he entered heaven the man worthy to open the seals....

I'm the one saying that. You are saying he was worthy to open some of the seals but didn't open the rest yet.

the seals are a long prophecy lasting 2000 years.

Not remotely correct. The events of the seals take place when the trumpets sound. The seals and the book are the battle plans, and the trumps are signals for those events to happen. You need to study into the historic use of seals on scrolls and what trumpets were used for by ancient militaries.

 

[David H.]

Yet you argue Christ has not opened the last two seals. He opened all of them then opened the book! That was his purpose at that time.

The question really has no importance. The seal presents already murdered saints wanting vengeance and they are told to wait until more are killed. Only after that does God take vengeance through his wrath. That waiting period is the Great Tribulation when satan has many saints killed.

All you are doing is overcomplicating a simple concept, and you lack common sense so you berate common sense.... Not worth commenting with you, as you are still in the vanity of your own understanding and unable to interact in a civil way. Your comment would get an OYE VEY if we had such a rating.

ALL of the first five seals are accelerated during the GT, that goes without saying, but the sixth is a natural phenomenon, thus it has not happened yet, so we are living in the time of the fifth seal and have been since Stephen was martyred, the first saint of the fifth seal.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (Revelation 6:12)

THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. Saints dying has and continues to happen. Remember There is no time in heaven, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day....

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. Revelation 9:12
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Revelation 11:14

There is never a third verse saying the third woe is complete in revelation. So what is the third woe? The only time the word "woe" is used after Revelation 11:14 is in Revelation 12:12. Is this the third woe? Is the seventh trumpet the third woe?

Well, for a long time I believed that the rapture takes place at the 7th Trumpet (Rev. 11:15), which at that time also the wrath of God is released in the Seventh Bowls. I'd say that is a big woe. I am not so sure anymore though.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

my timeline involves aligning the thunders. Just looking at the seals trumpets and vials, the seventh of these all line up, and foretell the day of the LORD,

I used to tell people who said all of these Seals, Trumps and Vials lined up, you were way, way off as I thought like most still do now, that there will be 21 Judgments. But I am always open for the holy spirit to teach me, I love being told I am wrong by the holy spirit because I am then learning from God. But here is the key, there are not 21 Judgments, only 7, but they do not all line up at the very end either.

The mistake most everyone makes is they do not seemingly understand the Seals are Jesus opening up the Scroll of Judgments and FORCASTING (Prophesying) what is about to befall mankind when the 7th Seal is finally opened, that is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8 all alone. Jesus is not bringing Judgments with the seals, he is opening the sealed scroll which has the judgments bound therein. This is why the heavens are silent once the 7th seal is opened in Rev. 8, judgment is at hand, and it really and truly is not something the Angels and God revel in, it saddens them they are having to judge mankind, just like the flood saddened God.

So, Jesus opens seals 1-5 and that is all about what the Anti-Christ will do over a 42 month period of tyranny, he will simply 1.) Conquer 2.) Bring Wars 3.) Which bring Famine and 4.) Death & Sickness. 5 He also Martyrs the Saints (Gentile Saints) who repent whom he can get at. The Jews who repent are protected in the Petra/Bozrah area, he can't get at them.

The 6th Seal is Jesus Forecasting (Prophesying) that the Day of God's Wrath will bring darkness, a blood moon, stars falling etc. etc. None of these seals are actual judgments, they FORETELL the coming Judgments that happen over a 42 month period of time via the Trumps.

Then in Rev. 7 we see the 3-5 million Jews fleeing Juda, 144,000 is a CODE for All Israel as in 12 means fulness and 10 means completeness thus 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or God shouting ALL Israel. So, the Jews flee Judea in Rev. 7, then only after they are protected will God's Wrath fall in Rev. 8. So, Rev. 8 is the Mountain (asteroid) falling into the sea and thus God's Judgment falling, Trumps #1, #2, #3 and #4 are all this same event(asteroid impact), notice in Trump #4 we see the Sun and Moon go dark, thus fulfilling Seal #6 and Joel 2:31.

So, to sum up, Seals 1-5 is the Anti-Christs actions over 42 months, and he is only allowed to go forth conquering when this Asteroid or Day of the Lord falls (Seal #6), so the Anti-Christs 42 months and the DOTL parallel over a 42 month period of time, that is why so many people think the 6th Seal is also the same as the 4th Trump, it is the 4th Trump being fulfilled !!

So, even though I was in error for 30 years, the Seals, Trumps and Vials are not the same events per se, what we get is the Seals FORCASTING the coming 7 Trumps, and once the first four Trumps (Asteroid Impact) comes to pass the next three Trumps are the THREE WOES as Rev. 8:13 tells us. So, Trump #5 is the 1st Woe, Trump #6 is the 2nd Woe and Trump # 7 is the 3rd Woe. Now do you see why they all can not be the same thing? But why Seal #6 can be prophesying about what the coming Trumps bring?

The 7 Thunders are indeed the 7 Trumps, which is why it says when the 7 Thunders have sounded time will be no more [as we know it]. in other words Jesus will rule. So, the 7 Thunders are a Parenthetical Citation chapter that basically says when the 7 Thunders sound its OVER. Notice in Rev. 16 after the 7th Trump the Angel says IT IS DONE !!

Now I see the seals as a long term series of events, (We are awaiting the completion of the number of the saints of the fifth seal, and the sixth and seventh to occur)

People who see this see the Seals as having been opened for going on 2000 years, they conflated by a few verses here and there, just now tat EVERYTHING AFTER Rev. 4:1 (Hereafter) is AFTER the Church Age, and is thus the 70th week.

Me being honest, people overthink it, and use other men's ideas way too much, and get off the true path Jesus set out fir us in prophecy.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The 2nd woe is totally over in the 9th chapter. It is over before the 7 Thunders. Just because we do not know the details, does not mean they will not happen. Revelation 11 is only about the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 11 is not about the 6th Trumpet nor the 2nd woe at all.

This is why understanding what chapters are Parenthetical Citations is so very important. Don't place Rev. chapters 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 17, 18 and 19 with Rev. chapters 8, 9 and 15&16. You see, the 7 Thunders ARE the 7 Trumps, so since Woe #2 comes from the 6th Trump, the 2nd Woe really cant come before the 7 Thunders. Rev. 11 starts 1335 days before the 2nd Coming because the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 or 1335 dats before the Second Coming ends all of these wonders, thus chapter 11s timeline actually starts 75 days before Rev. 8 does. The two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe, which is why the 3rd Woe is only mentioned as coming soon, they pray down all of the plagues of God, but just after they pray for the 3rd Woe, the die before it comes at the 2nd woe. So, yes the 2nd Woe ends in Rev. 9 because only Rev.8, 9 and 15&16 are real time events as per the 70th week, Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 17, 18 and 19 are chapters that take place at the same timeframe as those four chapters do.

Revelation 11 is the parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 12 is a parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 13 is the week of the 7th Trumpet split in half like Daniel 9:27 declares. The AoD is the 42 months of utter abomination on earth. There is no salvation by faith during this time. The only salvation is chopping one's head off to avoid the mark. Those who choose the mark are removed from the Lamb's book of life. Those who chop their heads off will be resurrected after Armageddon at the end of the 42 months.

Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 17, and 18 all start in the Middle of the Week (First Trump) and end with the 7th Trump, whereas Rev. 14 and 19 covers the full 7 years because we se the Church Marry the Lamb in Rev. 19 and we see a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture in Rev. 14:14.

The AoD is actually 1290 days, so a little over 42 months, thus the Jews have 30 days to flee Judea before the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem at the 1260 event.

The 2 witnesses are killed after the same 42 months as mentioned in Revelation 13. The 3rd woe is the 42 months of AoD granted to Satan. The 7th Trumpet is the end of the final harvest celebration. But the celebration is cut in half, because of the 3rd woe. The 7 Vials are poured out after the 42 months as judgment against Satan and his Babylonian type kingdom along with the FP and his harlot religion. Revelation 17 and 18 describe the end of this 42 month government. They are the parenthetical chapters of the 7 Vials, describing Armageddon.

They show up 75 days before the Beast at the 1335 compared to the 1260 and thus DIE 75 days before the Beast at the 2nd Woe vs. the 7th Vial.

 

[ewq1938]

Remember There is no time in heaven, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day....

That proves there is time in heaven, just experienced differently. You misunderstand that as badly as you "understand" what the seals are.

 

[Davy]

All you are doing is overcomplicating a simple concept, and you lack common sense so you berate common sense.... Not worth commenting with you, as you are still in the vanity of your own understanding and unable to interact in a civil way. Your comment would get an OYE VEY if we had such a rating.

ALL of the first five seals are accelerated during the GT, that goes without saying, but the sixth is a natural phenomenon, thus it has not happened yet, so we are living in the time of the fifth seal and have been since Stephen was martyred, the first saint of the fifth seal.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (Revelation 6:12)

THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. Saints dying has and continues to happen. Remember There is no time in heaven, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day....

Does that mean you believe the 6th Seal coincides with the Matthew 24:15 event of the placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol in Jerusalem for the end? I see that event as "great tribulation" timing which Jesus mentioned later there.

 

[Davy]

ewq1938 IS SPOT ON HERE

The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe, the 7th Trump thus brings 7 Vials, so the 3rd Woe = ALL 7 Vials.

Problem with that though, because of this...

Rev 16:9-11
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give Him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
KJV

The model of that actually is from Old Testament during the time of Moses and the children of Israel in Egypt. God did not destroy Pharaoh's army until the event after the children of Israel had been led through the parting of the Red Sea unto safety. So that symbolically represents that "seat of the beast" still existing until the final 7th Vial is poured out.

For the 6th Vial, Jesus is warning His Church that He comes "as a thief", and then gathers the kings and nations to battle for the final 7th Vial. And the Euphrates river drying up represents Satan's host coming for the very end, like with the 6th Trumpet of Revelation 9, which represents "great tribulation" timing. Thus Lord Jesus warning His Church to keep their garments, lest they walk naked (spiritually) and in shame, is relevant to that "great tribulation" timing on the 6th Vial.

(The Euphrates river was the northern most border that God gave to Israel. The 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe, and 6th Vial represents Satan's host being loosed upon the earth by the opening up of that symbolic Euphrates border. At Revelation 12:7-17 we are shown about Satan and his angels being cast out of the heavenly dimension down to this earth in our dimension, and it is tied to the 5th Seal and the latter 1260 days of the Book of Daniel's final symbolic "one week".)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. Revelation 9:12
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Revelation 11:14

There is never a third verse saying the third woe is complete in revelation. So what is the third woe? The only time the word "woe" is used after Revelation 11:14 is in Revelation 12:12. Is this the third woe? Is the seventh trumpet the third woe?

the third woe comes quickly…that quickly is interesting (Imo).

Consider: “Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.” With Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

In context:
Revelation 6:5-13 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. [6] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. [7] And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. [8] And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. [9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? [11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. [12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; [13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.