The Pre-Trib Rapture

[ewq1938]

Do you agree that the sheep and goats are gathered before Christ's throne at the same time following His second coming in glory with His angels, as the following clearly indicates?

Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

This is so obvious, that I'm going to assume that even you can see that the sheep and goats are gathered together AT THE SAME TIME before Christ's throne. Yet, you somehow have the goats (unsaved) not actually being judged until 1000+ years later. How can that be?

How can it not be? Reward for the saved happens at the second coming but the final Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) happens LONG after the second coming. Your issue is that you are not including what Revelation 20 says along with other passages. The only way to get a complete picture is to use ALL of them. The sheep and goats are separate in Revelation 20 also, with the sheep living in the camp of the saints at Jerusalem with the goats living elsewhere through the world. That's what you are missing when you isolate Matthew 25 by itself. Failing to incorporate what Revelation says is Amill's biggest error.

 

[Timtofly]

Generation / Generations have more that one meaning per Scriptural context.

You are talking about the 30-40 year life span and it’s offspring.
There is also for example generations of the heavens and earth.
Also generations of particular people, example ISRAEL.

So after the Millennium will a generation be considered 1,000 years?

 

[Taken]

So after the Millennium will a generation be considered 1,000 years?

After the millennium, reproduction of natural off-spring will cease.
So also, the generation you are measuring according to nature and natural off-spring’s will cease.

 

[Timtofly]

After the millennium, reproduction of natural off-spring will cease.
So also, the generation you are measuring according to nature and natural off-spring’s will cease.

And that is found where in Scripture?

 

[Taken]

And that is found where in Scripture?

All mortals must die. (Gen 9:5)

Do you believe After the millennium Mortals continue to be born and die?

 

[Timtofly]

All mortals must die. (Gen 9:5)

Do you believe After the millennium Mortals continue to be born and die?

The term mortal is a Greek philosophical term.

Adam's dead sinful flesh stops at the Second Coming, prior to the Millennium. The sons of God multiplied on the earth without sin and death. That phenomenon will start in the Millennium. People will be born, who will never die period. Birth does not assume death. Death assumes death. Birth is just humanity multiplying on the earth.

Death is Satan's excuse at over population. Do you think over population is giving God a headache and causing Him to wring His hands in worry?

 

[Taken]

The term mortal is a Greek philosophical term.

Adam's dead sinful flesh stops at the Second Coming, prior to the Millennium. The sons of God multiplied on the earth without sin and death. That phenomenon will start in the Millennium. People will be born, who will never die period. Birth does not assume death. Death assumes death. Birth is just humanity multiplying on the earth.

Do you believe After the millennium Mortals continue to be born and die?

Is there a yes or no somewhere in your answer?

 

[marks]

Hey @marks, still planning on meeting me at the pre-Trib Rapture?
The posts are getting a bit confusing on who else will be there.

:)

I always like the saying, We'll explain it to you on the way up!

Even so, Come Lord Jesus!

Much love!

 

[Taken]

I always like the saying, We'll explain it to you on the way up!

Even so, Come Lord Jesus!

Much love!

Had not heard that, but like it! Amen.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ewq1938]

All mortals must die. (Gen 9:5)

Do you believe After the millennium Mortals continue to be born and die?

There is no time for that. The little season is short then the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) happens. People will die outside of Jerusalem but no one will be giving birth after the Millennium.

 

[Timtofly]

Is there a yes or no somewhere in your answer?

Yes, there was a yes about birth.

No, there is no natural death in the Millennium.

Birth does not mean death.

I pointed out your question about after the Millennium is about the Millennium itself. No one knows about life and death in the NHNE, after the Millennium. Isaiah 65 is not about after the Millennium. Isaiah 65 is about the Millennium.

 

[Taken]

Yes, there was a yes about birth.

No, there is no natural death in the Millennium.

Birth does not mean death.

I pointed out your question about after the Millennium is about the Millennium itself. No one knows about life and death in the NHNE, after the Millennium. Isaiah 65 is not about after the Millennium. Isaiah 65 is about the Millennium.

Okay thanks. We disagree.

 

[Timtofly]

Okay thanks. We disagree.

Sure. I am not going to make a dogmatic statement about a new reality that we barely know a thing about. All we have is Revelation 21 and parts of 22. We know the earth is flat, because a 1200 square mile cube called New Jerusalem sits on a flat earth with no curve for 1200 miles at the minimum. All the earth can see that city from all points. There is no sun nor moon. That city is literally the light of that reality. If you declare no birth, then you have to also provide proof.

 

[Taken]

Sure. I am not going to make a dogmatic statement about a new reality that we barely know a thing about. All we have is Revelation 21 and parts of 22. We know the earth is flat, because a 1200 square mile cube called New Jerusalem sits on a flat earth with no curve for 1200 miles at the minimum. All the earth can see that city from all points. There is no sun nor moon. That city is literally the light of that reality. If you declare no birth, then you have to also provide proof.

Births and Deaths “DURING” the millennial reign, YES.
The Ending of the millennial reign, is mega deaths of mortals. YES.

AFTER the millennial reign, mortal births end.

Jesus overcame the world. Which is to say Jesus conquered DEATH.
Mortal men can partake of the same by, through, of Christ Jesus.

By definition MORTAL means “subject to death, WILL die”.
By definition IMMORTAL means “not subject to death, WILL NOT die”.

1 Cor 15;
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Timtofly]

Births and Deaths “DURING” the millennial reign, YES.
The Ending of the millennial reign, is mega deaths of mortals. YES.

AFTER the millennial reign, mortal births end.

Jesus overcame the world. Which is to say Jesus conquered DEATH.
Mortal men can partake of the same by, through, of Christ Jesus.

By definition MORTAL means “subject to death, WILL die”.
By definition IMMORTAL means “not subject to death, WILL NOT die”.

1 Cor 15;
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

No. There are no more of your terminology "mortals" in the Millennium period.

The Millennium itself starts with a resurrection into a permanent incorruptible physical body. No sin nature and no death and decay because of sin. That is finished at the 7th Trumpet or 42 months later at Armageddon.

The Day of The Lord is going to be a perfect Millennium as God created the world originally. There will only be a few children who figure out how to disobey, but the result will be instant Death and removal from society.

Yes, at the end, that last generation billions of young ones, around 100 will think Satan is the cat's pajamas and rebel, just like the angels did and walked off the job. This last generation will walk across the earth as if to overthrow the status quo. But only after the Millennium is over.

There are no sinful Adam's dead flesh "mortals" as you define yourself in the Millennium.

Those verses you quoted apply at the Second Coming for all humanity, who are not in Death or sheol.

 

[Taken]

No. There are no more of your terminology "mortals" in the Millennium period.

Don’t falsely give me credit for the term “mortals”, it is Scriptural!

The Millennium itself starts with a resurrection into a permanent incorruptible physical body. No sin nature and no death and decay because of sin.

The millennium of Christ Jesus’ reign IN His KINGDOM, WITH His Saints who have put on Christ, have been raised incorruptible.

The Day of The Lord is going to be a perfect Millennium as God created the world originally.

In Christ Jesus’ Kingdom, With His Saints, who have put on Christ, have been raised incorruptible.


Now you contradict yourself...

“No sin nature and no death and decay because of sin.”
There will only be a few children who figure out how to disobey, but the result will be instant Death and removal from society.
There are no sinful Adam's dead flesh "mortals" as you define yourself in the Millennium.

Still Disagree with you.

During the Millennium reign of Christ Jesus’,
* immortals are reigning WITH Christ Jesus’ IN His Kingdom.
* Christ Jesus IS KING of kings, LORD of lords.
* Christ Jesus’ IS KING of His Kingdom, LORD of His Kingdom.
* Christ Jesus’ Saints are WITH Him, IN His Kingdom.
* OUTSIDE of Christ Jesus’ Kingdom, ARE MORTALS.
* Mortals, that reproduce, live, die, are earthly nations, earthly kings, earthly lords, Believe IN Christ Jesus their KING, their LORD.
* Mortals, labor OUTSIDE of Christ’s Kingdom, build their own dwellings, grow their own food, ARE blessed abundantly, NEEDS met, No contending with fears of droughts, famines, wild animals, wars, corrupt governments, thieves, liars, cheats, Content with their OWN Nations prosperity.
They BEING MORTAL, are still subject to Physical DEATH.
* During the Millennial Reign, Mortal men WILL Physically DIE, with BELIEF in their KING Christ Jesus’ and BE Resurrected in the First Resurrection AFTER the Millennial Reign.
* As the Millennial Reign is Ending, SATAN IS LOOSED.
* Satan scurries about the NATIONS, (Outside of Christ Jesus’ Kingdom), to INFLUENCE “mortal men” AGAIN.
* After Mortal men Having A History of Ancestors of 1,000 years of Peace and Prosperity, last days of the Millennial reign, kings of the Earth, SHALL BE WEAKENED BY Satan’s Influences, raise up Armies AND come AGAINST Christ Jesus’ KINGDOM.
* THOSE “kings”, Those who participate in their “kings” armies, SHALL ALL be KILLED, and face damnation consequences at their Day of Judgement.
* Satan and His band of Demonic followers, shall be defeated, and thrown into the pits of hell.

^^^ All mortals, (Since Jesus FIRST Coming to Earth, and OVERCOMING DEATH) were OFFERED A WAY to ALSO OVERCOME DEATH. Some mortals freely choose Jesus’ offering, Some mortals freely rejected Jesus’ offering.

At the END of the Millennial Reign Of Christ Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom, He reigning OVER His Saints IN His Kingdom and OVER Earthly Mortals OF ALL World Nations...IS WHEN, OVERCOMING DEATH is manifested.
^^^ The LAST of the MORTALS experience DEATH. (Some with Christ Jesus, Some without Christ Jesus).
^^^ THAT IS THE DAY OF VICTORY OVER DEATH.

 

[Taken]

The Pre-Trib Rapture
OP ^

@marks

Hey brother, have you seen any testimony of those Against “pre-Trib Rapture”, Identify Exactly WHO ARE ALL the “saints” that Come to Earth WITH the Lord and Reign With Christ Jesus, in His millennial Kingdom On Earth?

1 Thes 3:
[13] To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

* OT Believers, who died not Knowing of Christ Jesus?
* Mortals who become Saints During the Tribulation, body’s not raised, Souls and Spirits IN Heaven praising God 24-7? (Rev 7:14 - 15)
* men who joined a man-made brick and mortar Church?

Conundrum. How can the Lords Saints COME WITH HIM, “IF” His Saints are supposedly “ON” Earth?

 

[Taken]

The term mortal is a Greek philosophical term.

The term MORTAL, means subject to Death. Must Die.

Do you think over population is giving God a headache and causing Him to wring His hands in worry?

Have I said any such stupid thing to give you cause to wonder if I think such a stupid thing? If so, quote me and we can discuss THAT.

In the meantime, can’t speak for you, however I am aware, DRY LAND was established for mortal mans habitat. Mortal men live and die.

* Presently about 70% of our global world is Water, (wet, oceans, ice, snow, not dry land)
* Presently about 30% of our global world is Dry Land, sufficient for manKIND to inhabit.
* Since the beginning of manKIND, men have taken turns Living, inhabiting the Dry Land, Dying and thus NOT inhabiting the Dry Land.

* God’s Word has foretold, of a NEW Earthly World, without the masses of Water and uninhabitable peaks.

* I am confident God has accurate calculation skills and that the New Earth Will Sufficiently Accommodate All of His faithful saints.

 

[Keraz]

Hey brother, have you seen any testimony of those Against “pre-Trib Rapture”, Identify Exactly WHO ARE ALL the “saints” that Come to Earth WITH the Lord and Reign With Christ Jesus, in His millennial Kingdom On Earth?

Jesus Returns accompanied by the armies of heaven, NOT humans. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14

The pre trib rapture is a false teaching and will never happen. For people who have been fooled by that idea, it is best for them to be aware of having to stand firm in their faith during the testing times to come. 1 Peter 4:12

 

[Taken]

Jesus Returns accompanied by the armies of heaven, NOT humans. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 18:
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You obviously are completely UNAWARE the Lord God Almighty IS omnipresent, has Multiple Names, Multiple Titles, Does Multiple things at Specific Times to EFFECT Gods WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED!

Son of Man with His Angels...Yep!
Word of God with His Armies...Yep!
Lord with those IN Christ..........Yep!

The pre trib rapture is a false teaching and will never happen. For people who have been fooled by that idea, it is best for them to be aware of having to stand firm in their faith during the testing times to come. 1 Peter 4:12

I hope you get YOUR DESIRE to experience the Wrath of the Lamb, for FAILING to COMMIT and lay down your life WITH Jesus’ crucifixion and FAILED to RECEIVE the Lords Salvation AND Holy Spirit of God,
Hope you stay in Believe, and receive a head chop, as you are TESTED during the Tribulation.

Seriously, Trust Everyone will get what they desire.

Me? I already laid down my life, and am tested daily, by people like you, who endlessly try to convince the Converted, The Lords Gift of Salvation is FAULTY, untrustworthy. ...eh, test away....
I have the Armor of God ON me for protection Against Wicked men.
I have Gods Holy Spirit IN me for protection Against Evil spirits.
I am NOT subject to suffer the Wrath God shall send down from Heaven.

But for you...who desires Wrath...enjoy it.