The Pre-Trib Rapture

[teamventure]

Why not just say it's about the theory of evolution too, or fibs like Donald Trump is a liar too? or just make anything OTHER THAN what the actual Scripture states???

God was rebuking the religious LEADERS of His people there, not witches!

Ezek 13:2-5
2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
KJV

The "house of Israel" in that day of Ezekiel meant ONLY the ten scattered tribes of the northern "kingdom of Israel" God originally put under Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim as king of Israel. That reference to making a 'stand' in the "day of the LORD" is about the very end... of this present world, i.e., our days. The majority of the ten tribes were scattered to the western nations of Asia Minor and Europe, and became the "multitude of nations" prophetic fulfillment to Ephraim (Genesis 48). So that involves CHRIST'S CHURCH in the Christian West. That is where many of the seed of Israel are, and are part of Christ's Church today.

Thus God is speaking to the PASTORS of the ten scattered tribes of Israel, of Christ's Church!

Unbelieving Jews are not teaching a Pre-trib 'fly away' Rapture, pastors in the Christian Church are preaching that LIE. God is against it, as He shows in that Ezekiel 13 chapter.

I'm barely reading your posts anymore.
To pull the pre-trib rapture out of that passage is straight lunacy.

 

[covenantee]

Yes, at this point, I can see where it's possible to interpret it that way. However, it can also be interpreted another way because it was indeed one generation from the destruction.

Strong's Greek: 1074. γενεά (genea) -- race, family, generation (biblehub.com)

Dispensational futurism attempts to interpret it as "race".

However, Greek Scriptural scholarship interprets it consistently across all of its occurrences within Matthew i.e. a period of time.

"3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34"

 

[Phoneman777]

Strong's Greek: 1074. γενεά (genea) -- race, family, generation (biblehub.com)

Dispensational futurism attempts to interpret it as "race".

However, Greek Scriptural scholarship interprets it consistently across all of its occurrences within Matthew i.e. a period of time.

"3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34"

Thanks. It's sad the "evidence" used to establish Jesuit Futurism has to do with such thinly framed arguments as "generation" pertaining to a future race instead of Jesus' present audience, or disqualified stones which we're violently thrown down but happened to come to rest upon another here or there.

 

[Phoneman777]

You said Eve was around before the Sabbath. I pointed out it was after.

You call that deflection. I call it a normal conversation. Is not posting: "Again, you’re deflecting and dodging. More flip flops than a Florida beach." itself just a deflection, instead of a normal back and forth? How does accusing a poster, further a serous conversation on a stated topic?

How the flippity flop could Eve have been created AFTER the Sabbath?

Please please please, don't tell me you're unfamiliar with Hebrew Chiastic Structure, right? A kind of poetry formed out of a mindset where not words, but ideas are rhymed? Where the "story arc" resembles a "Bell Curve" in which the climax is reached in the middle and the story is somewhat retold while adding details -- in contrast to the Western mindset which arc rises exponentially while reserving the climax for the end of the story? Imposing a Western mindset on Eastern composition and expecting satisfactory results is nothing more than exercise in futility.

Those who don't know yet presume to understand/explain Biblical chronology and eschatology attempt the equivalent of navigating rush hour traffic while wearing a blindfold and blasting death metal on the stereo.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is a prime example of 'statistics and lies'.
Because the infant death rate was so high, right almost to the present day; sometimes over half of all babies did not survive past 5 years. This fact skews any averages to a low figure for life expectancy.
However; if a person managed, by luck or good management, to survive , then they may well live to 60 and beyond.

Yep, that's what I meant by the "skulduggery" of modern Big Pharma "experts".

 

[Davy]

"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately."

Two different times the disciples came to Jesus. One at the temple as He was leaving. One while He was sitting on the Mount of Olives.

"And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,"

Once again, two different places, and two different questions.

There, you can read it in this post, and not even look it up and forget how it reads by the time you type a response.

Sorry, but that's such a weird idea.

Jesus Christ was upon the Mount of Olives when His disciples asked him the following question and He gave the Signs of the end...'

Matt 24:3
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

 

[Davy]

I'm barely reading your posts anymore.
To pull the pre-trib rapture out of that passage is straight lunacy.

So now you call God's written Word lunacy just because it disagrees with a false doctrine from men like the Pre-trib Rapture theory. Stay in deception then, if that's what you want.

 

[The Light]

So now you call God's written Word lunacy just because it disagrees with a false doctrine from men like the Pre-trib Rapture theory. Stay in deception then, if that's what you want.

I don't believe teamventure said the Word was lunacy. It is your totally off the wall interpretation of the Word that is lunacy. When someone is blind to the truth and just starts making things up and goes off on a clueless rant about the pretribulation rapture the odds of them having any understanding of Biblical prophecy are quite low. It's quite obvious that He is coming when you think not, just as He says.

 

[Timtofly]

But they can't explain why the Judean Christians fled.

Are you re-writing Josephus' history?

Of course we know why they fled. Obviously you have your own made up story?

 

[Timtofly]

The Israelites had to wander 40 years, each day for a year - which begs the question: why such a harsh punishment? The answer is obvious: it would take that long for the bones of every unbelieving Israelite of that generation to be buried.

What about Numbers 14:33-34?

"And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise."

How the flippity flop could Eve have been created AFTER the Sabbath?

Please please please, don't tell me you're unfamiliar with Hebrew Chiastic Structure, right? A kind of poetry formed out of a mindset where not words, but ideas are rhymed? Where the "story arc" resembles a "Bell Curve" in which the climax is reached in the middle and the story is somewhat retold while adding details -- in contrast to the Western mindset which arc rises exponentially while reserving the climax for the end of the story? Imposing a Western mindset on Eastern composition and expecting satisfactory results is nothing more than exercise in futility.

Those who don't know yet presume to understand/explain Biblical chronology and eschatology attempt the equivalent of navigating rush hour traffic while wearing a blindfold and blasting death metal on the stereo.

How about common sense? Normal reading comprehension works also. Does your Hebrew literary structure explain how all happened in 12 hours, that you claim happened?

 

[covenantee]

Are you re-writing Josephus' history?

Of course we know why they fled. Obviously you have your own made up story?

Obviously you don't know why they fled, otherwise you would have told us.

From Scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

Obviously you don't know why they fled, otherwise you would have told us.

From Scripture.

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."

 

[covenantee]

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."

True.

And flee they did.

 

[Phoneman777]

What about Numbers 14:33-34?

Why do you say this as if I didn't bring it up first? Did you miss it?

Does your Hebrew literary structure

I see from this you're not familiar at all with it. Would you like to me to explain?

 

[Timtofly]

Why do you say this as if I didn't bring it up first? Did you miss it?
I see from this you're not familiar at all with it. Would you like to me to explain?

Because it was not based on the length of a generation. It was based on the 40 days the spies were checking out the promised land.

Are you going to explain that 40 years is not the definition of a generation?

 

[Taken]

Hey @marks, still planning on meeting me at the pre-Trib Rapture?
The posts are getting a bit confusing on who else will be there.

:)

 

[Taken]

Because it was not based on the length of a generation. It was based on the 40 days the spies were checking out the promised land.

Are you going to explain that 40 years is not the definition of a generation?

Generation / Generations have more that one meaning per Scriptural context.

You are talking about the 30-40 year life span and it’s offspring.
There is also for example generations of the heavens and earth.
Also generations of particular people, example ISRAEL.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How is it nonsense to agree with scripture?

How are you agreeing with Matthew 25:31-46 which portrays the unsaved being judged and cast into the lake of fire 1,000+ years before you think they will? It's undeniable that they are gathered along with the saved before the throne at the same time, so the only way you can get it to line up with Premil is to have them standing there waiting to be judged for 1000+ years which is obviously complete nonsense.

 

[ewq1938]

How are you agreeing with Matthew 25:31-46 which portrays the unsaved being judged and cast into the lake of fire 1,000+ years before you think they will?

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The above happen at the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ), not the second coming. This can be seen in Revelation 20:11, after the second coming in both Amillennialism and Premillennialism.

It's undeniable that they are gathered along with the saved before the throne at the same time, so the only way you can get it to line up with Premil is to have them standing there waiting to be judged for 1000+ years which is obviously complete nonsense.

The saved are rewarded and inherit the kingdom first, then the thousand years takes place and after that then the unsaved are cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The above happen at the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ), not the second coming. This can be seen in Revelation 20:11, after the second coming in both Amillennialism and Premillennialism.

Do you agree that the sheep and goats are gathered before Christ's throne at the same time following His second coming in glory with His angels, as the following clearly indicates?

Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

This is so obvious, that I'm going to assume that even you can see that the sheep and goats are gathered together AT THE SAME TIME before Christ's throne. Yet, you somehow have the goats (unsaved) not actually being judged until 1000+ years later. How can that be? Why would they be gathered at the same time as the saved if they have to just stand there and wait 1000+ years later to be judged?