The Pre-Trib Rapture

[farouk]

Just saying reasoning, this /he says this, that /he says that, concluding reasonable.

Interpreting for “understanding”, as to “what does this mean”...
(Can yield to men, philosophers, rulers, self....or ask God —->
My preference.)

@Taken We do of course need the Holy Spirit to grant light and understanding of the Word.

There is no ingenious 'quick fix' or formula for understanding it.

 

[ewq1938]

The great multitude is result of the gathering from heaven and earth.

No, it's not. The gathering at the rapture is not an uncountable amount. What that passage is showing is ALL WHO ARE SAVED, from all time.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is already in heaven (pre trib rapture) and return with Jesus to the clouds for the second rapture. The 144,000 are the first fruits of the rapture that occurs at the 6th seal. They all return to heaven for the marriage supper.

There is one mass bodily rapture and it happens at the second coming, after the Great Tribulation has ended. It is a group smaller than the great multitude.

 

[Taken]

@Taken Well, details in Scripture can be complex, when it comes to prophecy, but there can sometimes be some simple interpretational principles to follow......... :)

Standards and Principles...ARE the basics, so to speak. Just ARE.
Choosing is everyone’s option...Freewill.
*Choose to like, follow, believe this day...Okay, hope that continues.
*Choose to believe, commit...Okay, God will Keep you committed.
*Choose to reject...Okay, God will be there if you change your will.
*Choose to reject & advocate Against God...Okay, God will put something in your path to enlighten you...Still Strong rejection....Okay, God will harden your heart, ie your will be done.

God is Just. Everyone will get what they truly heartfully desire, (belief...while alive in their flesh).
Some will have to “get a spanking” first...(so to speak) Some will not.

 

[covenantee]

Scripture points out Messiah was cut off. Other Scripture points out that this allowed the fulness of the Gentiles.

Sorry, but Gentiles "Lording it over" the Jews does not count as your "Prince to come".

Other Scripture points out that He was resurrected.

Three days into the 2nd half of the 70th week.

He remained on earth for another 40 days into the 2nd half of the 70th week, before His ascension.

He didn't remain cut off.

The week wasn't cut off, and the 2nd half of the week wasn't cut off.

Sorry, nothing to do with Gentiles' fulness or lording.

 

[Taken]

@Taken We do of course need the Holy Spirit to grant light and understanding of the Word.

There is no ingenious 'quick fix' or formula for understanding it.

Worship, Thank you, and bugging God for Understanding about this or that...pretty much a daily routine spirit to Spirit conversation with God.

 

[Truth7t7]

A parable? Based on what? Because you can't understand it any other way, particularly as a prophetic narrative? Or because Jesus said it was a parable? Did He? I ask this to challenge you to look at the passage for exactly what it says, and not for what it does not.

Much love!

A pre-determined bias to maintain your false narrative in a pre-trib rapture and 3 people's of God teaching

There is one people of God, his church, redeemed by the sacrificial blood on Calvary "Period"!

 

[Truth7t7]

Of course, they are not the same thing. The second rapture or gathering from heaven and earth happens before the Day of Christ. The great multitude is in heaven at the marriage supper when the wrath of God takes place.

The resurrection and judgement of all takes place on the last day, that's the second coming of Jesus Christ (The End) The Day Of The Lord

 

[Timtofly]

1 Corinthians 11.26 seems to make it clear that the Rapture is particularly linked with the church.

Certainly the church is not left on earth. Certainly when they are glorified, they will shine as the stars. Certainly at the Second Coming, all spiritual blindness will be removed. Certainly Satan will still deceive people. He certainly deceived Eve in the Garden. She was not spiritually blind. She was just clueless about evil. Those left behind are not suddenly going to forget what evil is. But they will see what they missed when they rejected God's Word and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Timtofly]

Are you saying Jesus is ruling on earth while Satan is given authority for 42 months?

Much love!

No. When Satan is given 42 months, that is when Jesus and the 144k are on Mt. Zion. Others are waiting on the sea of glass during that 42 months.

The point is that many point to the return after the 42 months as the Second Coming.

No Scripture splits the rapture from the Second Coming. People have the wrong event, or try to put all the events together as one. The Second Coming and rapture is the 5th and 6th Seals.

Also the Millennium on earth is not for the church. It is for OT prophecy regarding Israel. Life goes on for those on earth, like life went on in 30AD, and those released from Abraham's bosom did not take up residence on earth during the fulness of the Gentiles. Now that the fulness of the Gentiles is completed at the Second Coming, the church continues on in Paradise. The church will not return until the New Jerusalem comes down to earth.

If there is no 42 months, Jesus and the 144k remain on earth, that is after the newly created heavens and earth are finalized. The sheep and wheat also are the first generation of the Millennium.

 

[Taken]

A pre-determined bias to maintain your false narrative in a pre-trib rapture ...

Everything is known by God.
Men figure out along the journey of natural life, what they will believe, choose, commit or reject.
What is the consequence for each is already pre-determined and revealed.

My consequence is what shall apply to me.
I am not going to suffer Gods Wrath.
When Seal #1 is opened Gods Tribulations and Wrath have Begun.
You want to be ON Earth, your option.
Me, I favor Gods Will for me, Just as God saved Noah by causing him to be lifted up off the face of the earth...nothing new under the sun...
Same for the Converted shall be lifted up off the face of the earth.
You don’t like Gods Order and Way, has zero effect on me.

 

[amigo de christo]

A pre-determined bias to maintain your false narrative in a pre-trib rapture and 3 people's of God teaching

There is one people of God, his church, redeemed by the sacrificial blood on Calvary "Period"!

There is only ONE people of GOD . THOSE who believe in JESUS CHRIST . EVERY single apostel agreed upon that .
And they were all jews too . THEY all knew there was only ONE people of GOD . Those who believed in Christ .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let us hear the music . Every jew and every gentile who cometh not to Christ is gonna burn in the lake of fire .
There is no other plan of salvation peroid . Let us give none any hope that there is either .
The people o GOD are those who believe on Christ . If one believes not the testimony that GOD gave of HIS own SON
then as john wrote they make GOD a liar . There is but one people of GOD . THOSE whose faith is in Christ JESUS .
PEROID . Now take that to the celestial bank cause all else is but vanity .

 

[amigo de christo]

Everything is known by God.
Men figure out along the journey of natural life, what they will believe, choose, commit or reject.
What is the consequence for each is already pre-determined and revealed.

My consequence is what shall apply to me.
I am not going to suffer Gods Wrath.
When Seal #1 is opened Gods Tribulations and Wrath have Begun.
You want to be ON Earth, your option.
Me, I favor Gods Will for me, Just as God saved Noah by causing him to be lifted up off the face of the earth...nothing new under the sun...
Same for the Converted shall be lifted up off the face of the earth.
You don’t like Gods Order and Way, has zero effect on me.

No lamb is gonna suffer the wrath of GOD . but do prepare to be hated , persecuted and even killed by men of this world .
As for the wrath of GOD that cometh against the beast and the world , YEAH we wont be going under that .
AND WE CAN THANK CHRIST JESUS FOR THAT TOO . CAUSE what i say to one i will gladly say to all ,
HE IS THE ONLY REASON we wont face the wrath of GOD . HE and HE ALONE . TAKE that to the celestial bank
cause all else is but vanity . ONLY JESUS is our hope and our salvation . Now let those hands fly on up and praise the glorious LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

The resurrection and judgement of all takes place on the last day, that's the second coming of Jesus Christ (The End) The Day Of The Lord

And ye know not the hour your LORD does come .
Its a one time event my friends . That ol ark door aint gonna open up a second time .
Once the master of the House has risen up and closed that door , WAILING for all begins who knew not Christ . WRATH TIME .
And by the looks of things with all this inquity going through the roof and them hollering world peace and safety
ME THINKS TIME IS RUNNING OUT .

 

[Taken]

No Scripture splits the rapture from the Second Coming.

The rapture applies ONLY to the Converted, being removed from the face of the Earth. Lifted up. Those IN Christ, called UP by the Lord, to meet the Lord.

The Second Coming, IS:...the Return of WHO was sent once.
Who was sent once?

Son of Man...a baby
Who was he revealed? Teacher, Preacher, Prophet, Truth, Life, Power of God who IS Christ.
John 3:16
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Who shall men on earth SEE returning?
Son of Man...or human eyes will not SEE Him.
With Power...ie Christ.

Who shall men meet in the air, RAPTURE? The Lord
...the Lord
...Son of Man
...Christ

Is God not omnipresent?
Here, called by this name?
There, called by that name?

Saints, Christ’s Church, shall come WITH the Son of Man, Christ the Power, Lord who shall sit on His Throne WITH His saints.
Shall men on earth, with earthly eyes, SEE the saints With the Son, the Christ Returning to Earth? No.

 

[The Light]

No, it's not. The gathering at the rapture is not an uncountable amount. What that passage is showing is ALL WHO ARE SAVED, from all time.

Not true. There will those that are raised when Jesus comes at the end of the trumpets.

There is one mass bodily rapture and it happens at the second coming, after the Great Tribulation has ended. It is a group smaller than the great multitude.

Incorrect.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

It appears you do not know the difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. The tribulation is over at the 4th seal and then the wrath of God begins.......just like the word says.

 

[The Light]

The resurrection and judgement of all takes place on the last day, that's the second coming of Jesus Christ (The End) The Day Of The Lord

Still quoting "the end" nonsense.

I grow tired of proving you wrong with scripture as your blindness and lack of understanding seem boundless.

 

[ewq1938]

It appears you do not know the difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God.

I know the difference. You apparently don't know the difference between the rapture and the resurrection.

The tribulation is over at the 4th seal and then the wrath of God begins.......just like the word says.

None of that is biblical. The Great Tribulation starts at the 6th trump, not in any of the seals. The wrath of God starts at the 7th trump, Revelation 11.

 

[The Light]

I know the difference. You apparently don't know the difference between the rapture and the resurrection.

Which rapture and which resurrection are you talking about?

None of that is biblical. The Great Tribulation starts at the 6th trump, not in any of the seals. The wrath of God starts at the 7th trump, Revelation 11.

The great tribulation can be seen at the 5th seal. The wrath of God begins with the 1st trumpet after the 7th seal is opened.

LOL. And the wrath of God ends with the 7th trumpet. I'm not sure what translation you are reading, but it can't possibly be KJV.

 

[Truth7t7]

Certainly the church is not left on earth. Certainly when they are glorified, they will shine as the stars. Certainly at the Second Coming, all spiritual blindness will be removed. Certainly Satan will still deceive people. He certainly deceived Eve in the Garden. She was not spiritually blind. She was just clueless about evil. Those left behind are not suddenly going to forget what evil is. But they will see what they missed when they rejected God's Word and the Holy Spirit.

Fairy tales in the land of Aesops fables