The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Truth7t7]

You don't seem to be getting it.

The occultists say their plans will cause great disillusion in Christianity. THAT CAN'T HAPPEN IF A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE OCCURS because everyone would know what happened and be preparing for Christ's return 7 years later after going through the tribulation and won't be fooled any of Lucifer's tricks.

The only mass disillusion that can take place among Christians is if pre-tribbers find themselves neck deep in the tribulation and the long awaited pre-trib Rapture is no where to be found.

You mean the false-prophetess (Ellen G. White) and her spiritism in self proclaimed 2,000 dreams and visions

The false prediction in the 1844 proclaimed second coming of Jesus Christ, let's cover that false prediction up and call it the (Investigative Judgement)

Perhaps her grave marking bearing the Occultism Egyptian Obelisk, straight out of Occultic Freemasonry

Jehovahs Witnesses founder,, (Charles Taze Russel) is buried under the Egyptian Pyramid and Capstone, also out of occultic Freemasonry

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe all Scripture is true.

I'm pretty sure all of us here believe that.

I believe interpretation of Scripture is something God Himself gives to whom He will.

And what does this mean? Who do you think God gives the accurate interpretation of scripture to? Wouldn't it be those who ask for wisdom as James said we should do (James 1:5-7)? And those who try to be like the Bereans by examining the scripture every day to confirm what scripture teaches?

 

[marks]

So, apparently, you think that to lack scriptural authority just means there isn't anything that explicitly calls something a symbol even though we can spiritually discern that, such as in the example I gave of the sword coming out of Christ's mouth. Seems kind of silly to call that a case of lacking scriptural authority. Let's say someone thinks that the sword coming out of Christ's mouth is a literal sword. Do you think that person would have the scriptural authority to say so just because it doesn't specifically say that the sword is symbolic?

Any verses come to mind about that? Parallel passages that give us some specific info about swords and Jesus' mouth? I can think of a few.

This is a good example, because we are not told that the sword there is a symbol, however, we do have passages that treat the matter in such a way as to have a meaning for a symbol, such as "the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God".

So . . . can we honest enought to acknowledge that since this is not said to be a symbol, that it's our own opinion that it IS symbolic? And then we can go to to say, Scripture presents a sword as being the Word of God, so maybe the sword in Jesus' mouth is just that, His Word.

It's a factual an honest description of our interpretation.

"I think this is a symbol".

And maybe that's right, and maybe it's not. The further away you go from the specific saying of the Bible, just that, the further away you go. And then if we add to that our meanings of symbols that aren't in the Bible, we go further out yet.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What day? The Day of Christ. That's not the rapture of the church.

Sure it is.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Notice that first Paul references the day of "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" which is when "our gathering together unto him" will occur (1 Thess 4:14-17). He then referred to that day as "the day of Christ" (other translations have "the day of the Lord") and indicated that the day of Christ, which is the day Jesus will come and we'll be gathered together to Him, will not come until there is first a falling away and the man of sin is revealed.

 

[marks]

No, I haven't.

Surprising! I find it a lot.

It seems like you have something against symbols.

No, that I have something against is when someone presents their opinions as if they were written in the Bible when they are not.

I have something against when someone denys the plain meaning of a passage in favor of their own made up interpretations.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

That was C.I. Scofield and his 1909 reference bible, that magically put Darby's teachings in the margins, selling millions of copies around the world, and the Darbyism cancer continues to grow presently

Don’t know Scofield either. Do you own and have read a Scofield Bible?

 

[Truth7t7]

The pre-trib rapture view also teaches that the church won't be on earth when the mass falling away Paul talked about in that passage occurs. I don't see how the mass falling away can occur without the church being here because it has do do with many in the church falling away from the faith.

Many follow the new Thomas Ice teaching that falsely claims the Greek word "Apostasia" is a secret rapture and not the "Apostasy" of a once professing church

They practice fake it til ya make it, if it's a problem change it

 

[marks]

I agree 100%, excellent explanation

Yes the sword from the mouth of Jesus is symbolic of his word

Ephesians 6:17KJV
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Exactly!!

:)

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Any verses come to mind about that? Parallel passages that give us some specific info about swords and Jesus' mouth? I can think of a few.

This is a good example, because we are not told that the sword there is a symbol, however, we do have passages that treat the matter in such a way as to have a meaning for a symbol, such as "the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God".

So . . . can we honest enought to acknowledge that since this is not said to be a symbol, that it's our own opinion that it IS symbolic? And then we can go to to say, Scripture presents a sword as being the Word of God, so maybe the sword in Jesus' mouth is just that, His Word.

It's a factual an honest description of our interpretation.

"I think this is a symbol".

And maybe that's right, and maybe it's not. The further away you go from the specific saying of the Bible, just that, the further away you go. And then if we add to that our meanings of symbols that aren't in the Bible, we go further out yet.

I never said that we can just declare any given text to be symbolic without being able to offer any evidence to support that. I was mainly just arguing against the idea that the text itself (such as the text referencing a sword coming out of Christ's mouth) has to specifically indicate that it's symbolic in order to be symbolic.

 

[marks]

I never said that we can just declare any given text to be symbolic without being able to offer any evidence to support that.

That's good! Then we agree!

Much love!

 

[The Light]

Interesting. Which temple buildings remain intact from the destruction today? I always thought the entire temple with all it's buildings was razed to the ground in their search for the melted gold.

What you think and the FACTS seem to differ. One stone upon another.

Also, you dodged the question I asked about the sign. I'll ask again. If there is not one stone upon another, what was the sign that happened when you say it occurred, and what sign did Jesus say would happen?

 

[Truth7t7]

What day? The Day of Christ. That's not the rapture of the church.

Much love!

The scripture below clearly teaches the church will be present on earth to witness the anticgrist revealed, you give complete disregard to this fact, because it opposes your Darbyusm pre-trib rapture, it's that simple

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Many follow the new Thomas Ice teaching that falsely claims the Greek word "Apostasia" is a secret rapture and not the "Apostasy" of a once professing church

They practice fake it til ya make it, if it's a problem change it

I'm sure you will agree with me that their claim is completely ludicrous and based only on doctrinal bias rather than being an honest, objective interpretation of the text.

 

[marks]

for that day shall not come,

That's not the rapture of the church.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm sure you will agree with me that their claim is completely ludicrous and based only on doctrinal bias rather than being an honest, objective interpretation of the text.

We agree 100%, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 destroys the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture, as it clearly teaches the church will be present on earth to witness the "Apostasy" and "Antichrist Revealed"

 

[The Light]

You don't seem to be getting it.

The occultists say their plans will cause great disillusion in Christianity. THAT CAN'T HAPPEN IF A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE OCCURS because everyone would know what happened and be preparing for Christ's return 7 years later after going through the tribulation and won't be fooled any of Lucifer's tricks.

Another error. What scripture gives you the impression that Jesus will return 7 years after a rapture?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Surprising! I find it a lot.

Give me just one or two examples so I can see what you're talking about.

No, that I have something against is when someone presents their opinions as if they were written in the Bible when they are not.

I have something against when someone denys the plain meaning of a passage in favor of their own made up interpretations.

We all have something against that, but we don't all agree as to when someone is doing that.

 

[The Light]

We agree 100%, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 destroys the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture, as it clearly teaches the church will be present on earth to witness the "Apostasy" and "Antichrist Revealed"

I see no mention of the Church. Why do you find it necessary to add things that are not there?

 

[Truth7t7]

That's not the rapture of the church.

Much love!

Complete Disregard Again, As If My Claim Doesn't Exist

The scripture below clearly teaches the church will be present on earth to witness the antichrist revealed, you give complete disregard to this fact, because it opposes your Darbyism pre-trib rapture, it's that simple

You believe and teach the church "Won't" be on earth to see the antichrist revealed, the scripture below teaches otherwise

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[marks]

Give me just one or two examples so I can see what you're talking about.

I find this passage is frequently claimed to be symbolic of the church.

Revelation 7:1-8 KJV
1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5) Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6) Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7) Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8) Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Much love!