The Pre-Trib Rapture

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,676
24,014
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The only ones who could be "from that moment without direction and leadership anxious for an ideal, but without knowledge of where to send its adoration" are those who expected to be already up there when the tribulation hits down here, and they'll be thoroughly confused as to what to do next seeing that the teachers in whom they put their trust are as confused as they are --- the rest of us who know we're going through the tribulation won't be taken by surprise and will have prayerfully prepared to meet the crisis.
You seem to take a pretty dim view of the those who think differently than do you.

Do you realize that we are all taught to expect persecution? Just like you?

Do you realize, we do not think that because Jesus will rapture the church pre-trib, that we won't have trouble in life?

Anxious for an ideal, eh? We have Christ Himself.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,676
24,014
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The occultists say their plans will cause great disillusion in Christianity. THAT CAN'T HAPPEN IF A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE OCCURS because everyone would know what happened and be preparing for Christ's return 7 years later after going through the tribulation and won't be fooled any of Lucifer's tricks.
I see. I stick with the Bible myself. Many people have many plans for what they want to do in the time to come. I've followed such things for a long time. They come, they go, they change, and no matter, God will do as God will do.

Just like the "Great Reset". They have plans, but God's are the plans that will happen.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,676
24,014
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The only mass disillusion that can take place among Christians is if pre-tribbers find themselves neck deep in the tribulation and the long awaited pre-trib Rapture is no where to be found.
Rather, with the real Christians gone, the fake Christians will be ripe for the plucking.

And even so . . . once again . . . we are taught to expect persecution, and many are already persecuted.

Much love!
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,773
4,449
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is not a matter of “interpreting” literal words.

It’s a matter of trusting the literal words revealed in Scripture.

Interpretation of the literal words, is Gods interpretation.

Gods interpretation is a Gift from God TO a man WHO IS WITH God.
What does this even mean? Do you think symbolic words can't be trusted or something?
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,773
4,449
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Which is what the bible describes in Revelation 19.
It also describes things like a woman sitting on many waters while reading a beast with seven heads and ten horns. Is that literal, too?

I'll accept the bible over what your theological biased doctrine teaches.
My doctrine comes from the Bible. My doctrine recognizes obvious symbolic language such as when it talks about a sword coming out of Christ's mouth. There will not actually be a literal sword coming out of His mouth, so it should not be understood that people will be literally slain with a literal sword.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,773
4,449
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There's a straw man if I ever saw one!

Again, if the Bible says something is a symbol, that has Scriptural authority, the Bible says it. If the Bible does not say something is a symbol, and you do, your statement lacks Scriptural authority. And likewise for the meaning of a symbol.

Personally, I don't see why this would be difficult to understand or accept.
What is your point? Some scripture doesn't clearly indicate one way or another whether something is symbolic or literal. So, when you interpret those texts literally when I think they are symbolic, should I tell you that your interpretation lacks Scriptural authority?
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,676
24,014
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What is your point? Some scripture doesn't clearly indicate one way or another whether something is symbolic or literal. So, when you interpret those texts literally when I think they are symbolic, should I tell you that your interpretation lacks Scriptural authority?
My point is simple.

If the Bible tells us that the dragon is a symbol, and that symbol is of Satan, then, when I say that Satan is the dragon, then this has Scriptural Authority. The Bible says it. If I say the dragon is temptation and sin, or the dragon is the antichrist, these sayings do not have Scriptural authority.

If I say that Satan is a symbol, the Bible does not say that, and therefore my statement would lack Scriptural authority.

So, when you interpret those texts literally when I think they are symbolic, should I tell you that your interpretation lacks Scriptural authority?

If I tell you the dragon in John's vision is just a big sky reptile, not a symbol, then yes, you could rightfully tell me my interpretation lacks Scriptural authority, because in fact the Bible tells us something different.

My point is this. Many people declare things in the Bible to be symbols, and the Bible does not declare them to be symbols. And these people will then go on to tell you what those symbols mean, even though the Bible does not say they are symbols, and does not give a meaning. Such declarations are the opinions of the speaker, as the Bible does not say those things, and therefore, such declarations lack Scriptural Authority.

Much love!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: The Light

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,773
4,449
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My point is simple.

If the Bible tells us that the dragon is a symbol, and that symbol is of Satan, then, when I say that Satan is the dragon, then this has Scriptural Authority. The Bible says it. If I say the dragon is temptation and sin, or the dragon is the antichrist, these sayings do not have Scriptural authority.

If I say that Satan is a symbol, the Bible does not say that, and therefore my statement would lack Scriptural authority.
This is all obvious to everyone. Why do you think there is even the need to make an obvious point like this? There isn't.

If I tell you the dragon in John's vision is just a big sky reptile, not a symbol, then yes, you could rightfully tell me my interpretation lacks Scriptural authority, because in fact the Bible tells us something different.

My point is this. Many people declare things in the Bible to be symbols, and the Bible does not declare them to be symbols.
So what? The Bible doesn't have to declare them to be symbols in order to be symbols. That's my point. Such as the sword coming out of Christ's mouth. That is a symbol, but it doesn't specifically tell us that.

And these people will then go on to tell you what those symbols mean, even though the Bible does not say they are symbols, and does not give a meaning. Such declarations are the opinions of the speaker, as the Bible does not say those things, and therefore, such declarations lack Scriptural Authority.
So, apparently, you think that to lack scriptural authority just means there isn't anything that explicitly calls something a symbol even though we can spiritually discern that, such as in the example I gave of the sword coming out of Christ's mouth. Seems kind of silly to call that a case of lacking scriptural authority. Let's say someone thinks that the sword coming out of Christ's mouth is a literal sword. Do you think that person would have the scriptural authority to say so just because it doesn't specifically say that the sword is symbolic?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,967
3,750
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Interesting. Which temple buildings remain intact from the destruction today? I always thought the entire temple with all it's buildings was razed to the ground in their search for the melted gold.
A story from the "Raiders Of The Lost Ark" Indiana Jones Lives!
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,967
3,750
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is all obvious to everyone. Why do you think there is even the need to make an obvious point like this? There isn't.

The Bible doesn't have to declare them to be symbols in order to be symbols. That's my point. Such as the sword coming out of Christ's mouth. That is a symbol, but it doesn't specifically tell us that.

So, apparently, to lack scriptural authority just means there isn't anything that explicitly calls something a symbol even though we can spiritually discern that, such as in the example I gave of the sword coming out of Christ's mouth. Seems kind of silly to call that a case of lacking scriptural authority. Let's say someone thinks that the sword coming out of Christ's mouth is a literal sword. Do you think that person would have the scriptural authority to say so just because it doesn't specifically say that the sword is symbolic?
I agree 100%, excellent explanation

Yes the sword from the mouth of Jesus is symbolic of his word

Ephesians 6:17KJV
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spiritual Israelite

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,967
3,750
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, the idea is that as a pre-tribber, I'm setting myself up for beast worship when the rapture doesn't happen. What a load of you know what!

Much love!
You believe and teach the Church "Won't" be on earth to see the antichrist revealed, a direct disregard to the warnings and teachings in scripture

Jesus Love!

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,676
24,014
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is all obvious to everyone. Why do you think there is even the need to make an obvious point like this? There isn't.
So it would seem, yes? But there are a great many people, even here on this forum, who play fast and loose calling this and that symbols, this is not real, it's symbol, and I'll tell you what it means.

You haven't seen this?

Much love!
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,773
4,449
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree 100%, excellent explanation

Yes the sword from the mouth of Jesus is symbolic of his word

Ephesians 6:17KJV
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
I didn't mention in my post what I believed it symbolized, but I agree with you that it symbolizes His word. On the day He returns He will destroy all of His enemies who rejected His word (Matt 24:35-39, 2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Rev 19:17-18, Rev 20:9, etc.).

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,967
3,750
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Seriously do people think Darby invented something secret and magically slipped that into Scripture...?

LOL
That was C.I. Scofield and his 1909 reference bible, that magically put Darby's teachings in the margins, selling millions of copies around the world, and the Darbyism cancer continues to grow presently
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spiritual Israelite

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,773
4,449
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So it would seem, yes? But there are a great many people, even here on this forum, who play fast and loose calling this and that symbols, this is not real, it's symbol, and I'll tell you what it means.

You haven't seen this?
No, I haven't. It seems like you have something against symbols.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,967
3,750
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So it would seem, yes? But there are a great many people, even here on this forum, who play fast and loose calling this and that symbols, this is not real, it's symbol, and I'll tell you what it means.

You haven't seen this?

Much love!
Israelite openly showed you a basic elementary example of "Symbolic" and you continue to opposites basic truth

Is Jesys going to return with a literal sword coming from his mouth "No" its symbolic for his word, simple, clear, and easy to understand

Jesus Love!
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
10,773
4,449
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You believe and teach the Church "Won't" be on earth to see the antichrist revealed, a direct disregard to the warnings and teachings in scripture

Jesus Love!

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The pre-trib rapture view also teaches that the church won't be on earth when the mass falling away Paul talked about in that passage occurs. I don't see how the mass falling away can occur without the church being here because it has do do with many in the church falling away from the faith.