The soon coming rapture?

[Truth7t7]

So the only rapture is mentioned in Revelation 6:12 because that is the one and only Second Coming. Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. It is the return after those 42 months mentioned in Revelation 13:5.

That means Jesus is on the earth with His angels from the 6th Seal until, and only leaves if, there is a 42 month period, given to Satan in Revelation 13:5. Otherwise Jesus nevers leaves earth at all but stays on earth from the 6th Seal until the 7th Trumpet, and the start of the Millennium.

I understand, everyone wants to jumble it all up and claim everything happens at the same time. It is just not physically possible to claim all prophecy is just figurative, thus it all means the same thing. If that were the case, God would have not given us so much detail and different time stamps.

Jesus isn't on earth as you claim, he returns in fire and final judgment, glorious in the heavens

You falsely teach of a future Christ hanging out on earth prior to the glorious return in the heavens "Beware Of The Antichrist"

 

[Truth7t7]

Pentecost is the most likely time as it is the 2nd harvest. The Passover barley harvest would be the 1st. The dead in Christ rise first.

Scripture states absolutely nothing about Pentecost or a barley harvest being associated to a resurrection, pure assumptions in speculations

 

[Truth7t7]

There are two raptures. Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. The Church will be raptured pre trib before the seals are open. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. There will also be a pre wrath rapture of the 12 tribes at the 6th seal. The time you mentioned is the time for the rapture of the 12 tribes.

There are 144,000 first fruits, 12,000 from each tribes. That should tell you there will be a harvest of the twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman. If the first fruits are pumpkins, the harvest is pumpkins. So it will be with the 12 tribes.

No place in scripture does it teach of a pre-trib rapture as you claim

 

[James Macbeth]

the last trump blown on a feast of God not the 7th trumpet blown by an angel

The last Trumpet is blown on the last holy-Day of the Jewish Calendar.

Psalms 81: Play the Trumpet on the new Moon, on the appointed day, on the day of our solemnity.

Solemnity means the Jewish Festivals. All Jewish Festivals are on a new Moon.

The last & smallest Jewish Festival is Tu B'Av, Fifteenth of Av (ט״ו באב).

Our Lord JESUS says: I am Alpha & Omega, the beginning & the end, the first & the last. (Rev. 22:13)

He also warns us, saying: Verily, I say to you: Till heaven & earth pass away, not one letter nor one mark shall pass from the Law, until all is fulfilled. (Matthew 5:18)

There are 13 mandated Festivals for the Jews, this is their Law, their holy-Days of obligation.

Learn the Parable of the 10 Virgins, 5 wise & 5 foolish.
The Church is the bride of Christ.

Our Lord JESUS: If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

No man knows the Day or the Hour... Our Lord is delayed, he says so himself: As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy & slept. (Matthew 25:5).

Lastly the biggest clue for the Season of the Fig tree comes from our Lord: For as in those days before the flood they were eating & drinking, marrying & giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark. (Matthew 24:38)

Jews don't marry on any other holy-Day other than Tu B'Av! And they Fast on every holy-Day except Tu B'Av!

Realize the open Season for the Rapture is after Tu B'Av till the day before Jewish New Years.

That's 1 months 14 days, or 6 weeks 3 days, or 45 calendar days, every year till our Lord returns.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

Soon yes very soon into the warm embrace of his arms at long last.... this is what my heart tells me, i have no poof of it no evidence of it no real reason to believe it other than this warmth inside me when i think of finally running into his arms and the words soon very soon echo inside me.

if it did not happen?
i wonder how much of this will be an impact to your faith....

 

[The Light]

So the only rapture is mentioned in Revelation 6:12 because that is the one and only Second Coming. Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. It is the return after those 42 months mentioned in Revelation 13:5.

That means Jesus is on the earth with His angels from the 6th Seal until, and only leaves if, there is a 42 month period, given to Satan in Revelation 13:5. Otherwise Jesus nevers leaves earth at all but stays on earth from the 6th Seal until the 7th Trumpet, and the start of the Millennium.

No, No, No. Jesus never comes to the earth at the 6th seal. He remains in the clouds and sends His angels at the 6th seal.

This is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. If you were able to understand that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet, you would understand that you are back in the seals in Rev 13 and 14

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I understand, everyone wants to jumble it all up and claim everything happens at the same time.

No need to jumble anything up. Why not try reading what it says and understanding what is written instead making thing up because you don't understand.

It is just not physically possible to claim all prophecy is just figurative, thus it all means the same thing. If that were the case, God would have not given us so much detail and different time stamps.

Boy is this a baseless post. I don't believe any of that nonactionable stuff. I believe EXACTLY what the Words. I believe that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal, just like it says and yet you have the tribulation and 42 months happening during the wrath of God. That makes no sense. I believe that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet, just like the Word says. What you are reading in Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the seals. The coming of Jesus in Rev 14, is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. You need to understand what you are reading. How many floods are there in Genesis 7? How many times did Noah load all the animals in Genesis 7. Try understanding what you are reading.

 

[The Light]

if it did not happen?
i wonder how much of this will be an impact to your faith....

I would be more concerned about the those without oil in their lamps when He does come in an hour that you think not.

 

[The Light]

The last Trumpet is blown on the last holy-Day of the Jewish Calendar.

Psalms 81: Play the Trumpet on the new Moon, on the appointed day, on the day of our solemnity.

Solemnity means the Jewish Festivals. All Jewish Festivals are on a new Moon.

The last & smallest Jewish Festival is Tu B'Av, Fifteenth of Av (ט״ו באב).

Our Lord JESUS says: I am Alpha & Omega, the beginning & the end, the first & the last. (Rev. 22:13)

He also warns us, saying: Verily, I say to you: Till heaven & earth pass away, not one letter nor one mark shall pass from the Law, until all is fulfilled. (Matthew 5:18)

There are 13 mandated Festivals for the Jews, this is their Law, their holy-Days of obligation.

Learn the Parable of the 10 Virgins, 5 wise & 5 foolish.
The Church is the bride of Christ.

Our Lord JESUS: If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

No man knows the Day or the Hour... Our Lord is delayed, he says so himself: As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy & slept. (Matthew 25:5).

Lastly the biggest clue for the Season of the Fig tree comes from our Lord: For as in those days before the flood they were eating & drinking, marrying & giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark. (Matthew 24:38)

Jews don't marry on any other holy-Day other than Tu B'Av! And they Fast on every holy-Day except Tu B'Av!

Realize the open Season for the Rapture is after Tu B'Av till the day before Jewish New Years.

That's 1 months 14 days, or 6 weeks 3 days, or 45 calendar days, every year till our Lord returns.

The timeframe you post is for the Jews, not the Church. He should come for the Church in the early summer grain harvest. Summer is near.

 

[The Light]

It doesn't state anything about a trump blown on a feast of God as claimed, pure assumption in speculation

Yeah, maybe. But if we just read what the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 and the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal say, we can tell WITH A DOUBT that the last trump talked about in the scripture can't possibly be the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. But simple logic seems to be weak in many.

 

[The Light]

It clearly states the angel had power over fire, as the earth is being harvested

Revelation 14 that you provide is nothing more than the second coming, harvest in resurrection, and final judgement by fire

Really? What's it doing in Rev 14? You haven't a clue.

The verse says nothing about a feast of God. It says the last trump and the dead resurrect, that's also what happens when Christ comes in another verse where the dead rise and the rapture happens. All these events happen at the last of 7 trumps.

Sorry, but we are not appointed to wrath. We can tell by these verses that the gathering is BEFORE the day of the Lord, the day of His wrath.

2 Thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul was telling the Thessalonians that they should not be troubled that they were in the wrath of God. Paul says no, don't be troubled, the gathering from heaven and earth is before the day of the Lord.

 

[James Macbeth]

The timeframe you post is for the Jews, not the Church. He should come for the Church in the early summer grain harvest. Summer is near.

But the Jews are fasting in early summer.
The the appointed season for Harvesting, is during the break in their Calendar.
They shall be eating and drinking...

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus isn't on earth as you claim, he returns in fire and final judgment, glorious in the heavens

You falsely teach of a future Christ hanging out on earth prior to the glorious return in the heavens "Beware Of The Antichrist"

Stop looking for an AC. You reject Matthew 13:

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;"

How can Jesus sow seeds from Heaven? Jesus is on earth with His angels. Matthew 25:31

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Jesus is coming to earth, even though you have convinced yourself otherwise.

 

[The Light]

But the Jews are fasting in early summer.
The the appointed season for Harvesting, is during the break in their Calendar.
They shall be eating and drinking...

The Jews will miss the 1st harvest because they served other Gods. The Gentiles become the 1st harvest as the fig tree has two harvests.

Hos 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

After the harvest the 12 tribes across the earth will realize that Jesus has come for His Church.

Jer 8
The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

 

[Truth7t7]

Really? What's it doing in Rev 14? You haven't a clue.

Sorry, but we are not appointed to wrath. We can tell by these verses that the gathering is BEFORE the day of the Lord, the day of His wrath.

2 Thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul was telling the Thessalonians that they should not be troubled that they were in the wrath of God. Paul says no, don't be troubled, the gathering from heaven and earth is before the day of the Lord.

Wrong, God's wrath is poured upon the wicked in "Fire"

All men's works will be tried by this last day fire, the righteous saved will pass through the fire to the eternal kingdom in the new heaven, earth, Jerusalem

The wicked will be caught in the Lord's fire in final judgement for eternity, the (Lake Of Fire)

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is not a fair assessment. This is just an erroneous judgment call.

Amil have to replace Israel with the church.

How does Amil replace Israel with the church? God's people have always been those who have faith. In OT times that was mostly Israelite people but then Jesus shed His blood so that Gentile believers could also be God's people together with Israelite believers. No one was replaced. Instead, all believers, Jew or Gentile, were brought together as one. Those who have faith are grafted in, but they don't replace anyone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It does actually. It's the dead in Christ that are judged at the 7th trump, not the unsaved dead. Revelation 2 and 19 promise a rule over the nations after the second coming.

In Revelation 11:18, John differentiates between those who are judged/condemned and those who are rewarded. It is unbelievers who will be judged. The word means to be condemned in that verse. In contrast to "your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name" who will be rewarded at that time.

We agree that Jesus will return at the last trumpet and that the seventh trumpet is the same as the last trumpet, right? Well, Matthew 25:31-46 shows both the saved and unsaved being judged at His return. So, you should allow scripture to interpret scripture for you and realize that Revelation 11:18 is referring to the same ones as the "goats" described in Matthew 25:31-46 who are condemned to "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". The dead being judged in Revelation 11:18 are the same dead being judged in Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Truth7t7]

How does Amil replace Israel with the church? God's people have always been those who have faith. In OT times that was mostly Israelite people but then Jesus shed His blood so that Gentile believers could also be God's people together with Israelite believers. No one was replaced. Instead, all believers, Jew or Gentile, were brought together as one. Those who have faith are grafted in, but they don't replace anyone.

I Agree, (Replacement Theology) is the invention of those that follow John N. Darby & C.I. Scofield in Zionist Dispensationalism

Dispensationalism's false (Dual Covenant Theology) in two peoples of God doctrine, (Ethnic Jews) and (Church)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This was your response to my post.
"I believe your view is so off base and convoluted that it makes it impossible for us to have a fruitful discussion. So, I don't have any more to say to you about this at this point."
You don't think you can have fruitful discussion because you think I am so far off base that you are done talking. If you can't follow what I believe, you are not following what is written. I believe EXACTLY what is written. I don't make anything up like the Church is the 144,000 or Israel has replaced the Church or any such nonsense. If it is written, that is what I believe.

I don't say that Israel has replaced the church or anything like that, so if you're just going to misrepresent what I believe, then I'm not interested in that.

This is just something that you have made up because you don't understand what is written. The dead in Christ are already in heaven before the seals are opened.

Not with bodies. That's something you're making up. It's only their souls that are in heaven, which is why John only sees the souls of the dead in Christ in passages like Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4.

Those souls under the altar are those of the seed of the woman that are killed during the great tribulation, just as is written.

You mean just as you interpret what is written. I disagree with your understanding of what is written.

Don't be so sure. I believe that the seals are in order and that the tribulation is over at the sixth seal with the return of Christ for the gathering from heaven and earth. Then the trumpets are the wrath of God and are in order. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet, just like it says.

So, you believe there are parallels between the trumpets and vials/bowls, but for some reason you can't allow for parallels between the seals and trumpets (and vials/bowls)? Hmmm...

EXACTLY CORRECT. Your logic is spot on. When the 7th trumpet sounds the wrath of God is over. What you see in the vials is just another view of things that happen in the wrath of God. The trumpets and vials occur in the same time frame. So I think we agree on the point you made about the 7th trumpet.

It's quite unusual for someone who believes in a pre-trib rapture to also believe that the trumpets and vials occur in the same time frame. Glad we can agree on that, at least.

 

[ewq1938]

In Revelation 11:18, John differentiates between those who are judged/condemned and those who are rewarded. It is unbelievers who will be judged. The word means to be condemned in that verse. Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

That's not the full truth.


The word can mean positive judging or negative.


G2919
κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.
Total KJV occurrences: 114



Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined G2919 to let him go.

That's the opposite of condemning.


In contrast to "your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name" who will be rewarded at that time.

We agree that Jesus will return at the last trumpet and that the seventh trumpet is the same as the last trumpet, right? Well, Matthew 25:31-46 shows both the saved and unsaved being judged at His return.

That's not the return but the day of the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ). No one is cast into the lake of fire at the return but the beast and False Prophet, Revelation 19.

So, you should allow scripture to interpret scripture for you and realize that Revelation 11:18 is referring to the same ones as the "goats" described in Matthew 25:31-46 who are condemned to "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". The dead being judged in Revelation 11:18 are the same dead being judged in Revelation 20:11-15.

No,m at the return the saved dead and living are judged and rewarded. The dead are judged to life here:

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The first resurrection is to life, the second resurrection is to damnation.

 

[Timtofly]

How does Amil replace Israel with the church? God's people have always been those who have faith. In OT times that was mostly Israelite people but then Jesus shed His blood so that Gentile believers could also be God's people together with Israelite believers. No one was replaced. Instead, all believers, Jew or Gentile, were brought together as one. Those who have faith are grafted in, but they don't replace anyone.

Because Israel is the Nation ruling over all other Nations during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.

You claim Israel was set to the side, ie, replaced by the church in the here and now, and the church and Christ is currently reigning over all Nations.

That is replacing Israel in a future Millennium, with the church in an indefinite period of time, the here and now.