Perry Stone Talks Rapture

[rockytopva]

http://media.voe.org/2241808

 

[revturmoil]

Same old bunch of blunders and fabricated false teachings.

http://www.tribwatch.com/

It's very, very sad that a Christian cannot see through the extensive fabrications and blunders of the most deceitful doctrine that has ever crept into the church.

"My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one." (John 17:15).

 

[rockytopva]

Planning a trip to Hoover Dam and back in October. The southern trip back will take me through Phoenix, El Paso, and will try to make Joel Osteen's Lakewood by Saturday. The next week will head to the "Ultimate Refreshing" conference with Perry Stone and then head back through the Smokies! Love spending my time with per-mellinial folk!

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.- Matthew 25:13

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. - Luke 17:26, 27

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. - Matthew 24:37,38,39,40,41

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17:28,29,30

 

[TWC]

Planning a trip to Hoover Dam and back in October. The southern trip back will take me through Phoenix, El Paso, and will try to make Joel Osteen's Lakewood by Saturday. The next week will head to the "Ultimate Refreshing" conference with Perry Stone and then head back through the Smokies! Love spending my time with per-mellinial folk!

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.- Matthew 25:13

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. - Luke 17:26, 27

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. - Matthew 24:37,38,39,40,41

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17:28,29,30

Once again, Noah and his family were left, not taken. It was the wicked who were taken. You're either reading with the assumption that your doctrine is correct (which, by using it as an argument in support of said doctrine, is circular reasoning) or your reading comprehension abilities are less than that of a six-year-old.

Lot was fleeing Sodom as it was being destroyed, not before. It says this in the very passage you posted. It shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend.

The Son of Man will come at the end of the tribulation period. That's when He said He was coming. It's written in Matthew 24:29-31, and there are enough English translations out there, all saying the same thing, that can make it understandable.

I don't understand how some people will read the Bible and not believe what it plainly says, yet if a man in a suit stands behind a pulpit, they'll believe every word that comes out of his mouth.

 

[revturmoil]

Perry Stone doesn't utilize a sensible method of interpretation. i.e. A hermeneutic.

He's trying to fabricate the Greek New Testament meaning of the word 'elect/chosen' by the Old Testament meaning of the word. He say's that the 'elect' of Mathew 24:24 and 31 is Jews and not Christian's because the church hadn't yet been formed. Therefore, Christ was indicating Jews and not Christian's! How foolish a comment in an attempt to support pre-tribulationism. It's irrelevant that the church had not yet been formed because Christ is speaking about the time period "immediately after the tribulation of those days!" It's obvious that it doesn't take much to deceive "the elec!" since so many Christian's have fallen for pretribulationism.

It's disturbing that Christian's would fall for these things. In everyone of the following verses the word elect/chosen indicates 'Christian's.' Not Jews or Israel! That being the case. Perry Stone fabricates the false teaching that the elect of Mthew 24 is 'Jews' because if he didn't............. Mathew 24 clearly debunks pretribulationism.

Take a look for yourself. In every verse quoted by John the Christian the word 'elect/chosen i.e. 'EKLEKTOS' means CHRISTIANS!
One essential part of a good hermeneutic is to observe how the same word for elect is used in other verse. Not how the word is used in another language and under another covenant!

Matthew 20:16
John 13:18, 15:16
Acts 15:22, 15:25
Romans 8:33, 16:13
1 Corinthians 1:27-28
Ephesians 1:4
Colossians 3:12
James 2:5
2 Timothy 2:10
Titus 1:1
1 Peter 1:2, 2:9, 5:13
Revelation 17:14

The word elect...


1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
http://www.bluelette...ngs=G1588&t=KJV

It comes from this root word.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1586&t=KJV

 

[rockytopva]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - - Revelation 16:15

It is a matter of obedience to watch for the Lord to come at any minute and in any day. You guys can be disobedient all you want. You have your reward.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:3

 

[revturmoil]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - - Revelation 16:15

It is a matter of obedience to watch for the Lord to come at any minute and in any day. You guys can be disobedient all you want. You have your reward.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:3

Understanding the rapture has nothing to do with obedience. It's kind of like understanding the gift of tongues. Simplicity, continuity, and common sense! Not fabrications and a host of colossal blunders!

If Jesus wanted to indicate Jews in Mt. 24:24, 31. He would have very likely used this word.

1445. Hebraios heb-rah'-yos from 1443; a Hebræan (i.e. Hebrew) or Jew:--Hebrew.

 

[rockytopva]

Its not understanding the rapture... It's the preparation of meeting Jesus Christ! Which is the problem with northerners... They seek only mental things... Not worried at all about that old wicked heart of theirs! The Holy Spirit comes in the heart, which reports to the mind pleasant things. And one of those things is to be ready for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to occur at any moment and on any day!

 

[revturmoil]

Its not understanding the rapture... It's the preparation of meeting Jesus Christ! Which is the problem with northerners... They seek only mental things... Not worried at all about that old wicked heart of theirs! The Holy Spirit comes in the heart, which reports to the mind pleasant things. And one of those things is to be ready for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to occur at any moment and on any day!

You're grossly misled. You know nothing about us 'northerners' and have a judgemental spirit. You don't care about the truth. You've latched onto a false and deceptive doctrinal error.

I'm prepared both Spiritually and physically.

Instead of judgementalism. Try proving me wrong! Try proving John the Christian wrong! And I'll point out every one of your doctrinal blinders, blunders, contradictions, and fabrications!

 

[rockytopva]

Lets take in study Abraham, his servant, and Isaac...

[sup]2[/sup]And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:
[sup]3[/sup]And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
[sup]4[/sup]But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac. - Genesis 24:2,3,4

Metaphors...

Abraham ... God the Father
Isaac.......... Jesus Christ
Servant...... The Holy Spirit

As in this metaphor the Holy Spirit is on the mission from God the Father to get him a bride for the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Now, since the Holy Spirit does not know when Jesus is returning it makes perfect sense for him to keep us prepared for that event to happen at any moment and on any day. If we are not keeping our spiritual man prepared for this event chances are we are compromising our wedding garments... Which as the scripture says...

[sup]11[/sup]And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
[sup]12[/sup]And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
[sup]13[/sup]Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
-Matthew 22:11,12,13

 

[revturmoil]

Rocky,

Don't fool yourself.

Do you realize what you're saying? You actually believe that because a Christian doesn't believe in pre-tribulationism it indicates that they're not ready? The angel of death could come at any moment so we all need to be ready. The return of Christ cannot come because The Word of God say's that there must first be an apostasy, the man of sin must first be revealed, and the last trump must sound. Those simple verses require some fabrication to support the false pre-trib teaching.

Can't you see the extent pre-tribulationist go through to support an un-biblical teaching? It's one blunder and fabrication after another and then those blunders and fabrications expose the contradictions of the false teaching which in turn creates more fabrications!

But you like so many others are faithful to the doctrine regardless of biblical truth.

 

[tim_from_pa]

I won't say if I believe in a pre, mid or post Rapture, but in Rocky's defense, or I should say that of the video, I do believe that the Trumpet gathering the elect (Matthew 24:31) is based off of the likes (or quoted from) Isaiah 27:13. The whole New Testament quotes often from the Old and everything Jesus said and taught was already foreshadowed and not an afterthought.

There's elect of race, a genealogical election regarding Israel (with all the promises and blessings but not necessarily saved at this time) and then there's the elect of grace, the present church.

In the end times, there are no shortage of passages regarding a trumpet being blown and Israel gathered for the millennial Kingdom, something which Jesus also reiterated and taught. This has its counterpart in the Feast of Trumpets.

That's the problem with today's church. They think they are the only ones "elect". In addition, they abandoned God's feasts and Sabbaths which are prophetic of things to come. As a matter of fact, the feasts are God's prophetic timeline and summary of prophecy regarding man's redemption all wrapped up in one. All in Leviticus 23.

I think many in the church ought to get off their ignorant doctrinal High Horses and at the very least start watching the moon so that they even know the time of the month like in ancient Israel with their calendar so that they won't be taken by surprise! :lol: Things are going to happen at the "set times" of the Lord.

 

[rockytopva]

Guys... We can't expect to agree on the timelines of the endtime! As long as we are not trying to pick exact dates it should be no difference what ---trib you are. Again... Christ comes as a thief in the night... If he came not as a thief we would be able to pinpoint the endtimes better.

 

[revturmoil]

Guys... We can't expect to agree on the timelines of the endtime! As long as we are not trying to pick exact dates it should be no difference what ---trib you are. Again... Christ comes as a thief in the night... If he came not as a thief we would be able to pinpoint the endtimes better.

Research the link I provided. There's one thing many post tribbers do that pre tribbers do not do. And that is physically prepare.
All of my kids are in their 30's. But I do have 5 grandchildren. So when the first day of tribulation arrives, pre tribbers don't expect to be here but post tribbers do.

Being a post tribber I have taken some steps to provide for my family when the defecation hits the rotating oscillator. When it does the grocery stores will empty out in a matter of days.

I live far away from any metropolis and have food stored for long term storage as well as several other survival essentials.

Another issue presented to pre-tribbers is this...

If a diehard pre-tribber is still here, then according to the doctrine which they accept as truth......we are not in tribulation. Can you see the 'denial problem' this creates?

 

[rockytopva]

Did the grocery stores dry up during the times of Noah or Lot? In such times the Lord is coming!

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. - Hebrews 13:5

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? - Luke 18:8

KaoticProfit... Have you ever read your bible? Apparently not!

 

[revturmoil]

Did the grocery stores dry up during the times of Noah or Lot? In such times the Lord is coming!

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. - Hebrews 13:5

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? - Luke 18:8

KaoticProfit... Have you ever read your bible? Apparently not!

Stop with the foolishnes. Why do you have to resort to snide and judgemental rhetoric just because we disagree. There's enough of those undesirable types on the forum. Now you're on the list of those who need guidance and need to grow up!
Here you are a pre-tribulationist and vain babbler and your asking me if I've ever read my bible!

I guess you just don't get the message. Noah just didn't jump on the boat and say, "God will provide!" He had to prepare by stockpiling enough food for his family and the animals.
If you chose not to prepare that's your choice. If you have a family I would at least buy some rice and beans!

 

[rockytopva]

But... The times were normal times until Noah entered the ark...

But... The times were normal times until Lot left Sodom...

So... The times will be normal times until Jesus comes again!

 

[revturmoil]

But... The times were normal times until Noah entered the ark...

But... The times were normal times until Lot left Sodom...

TIMES WE'RE NOT NORMAL DURING ANY OF THOSE TIMES.

So... The times will be normal times until Jesus comes again!

They will???

Maybe you should read Mathew 24:1-28 again!

Because Jesus quotes his return as well as the gathering as occuring after the normal events of verses 1-28!

Matthew 24:1 ¶And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 ¶And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[rockytopva]

Part of those prophecies deal with Titus Flavius Vespasianus, who came down from the North, devastated Israel, and sacked Jerusalem about 67 AD. Which is why Jesus said...

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. - Matthew 24:34.. Which scripture you omitted above.

 

[revturmoil]

Part of those prophecies deal with Titus Flavius Vespasianus, who came down from the North, devastated Israel, and sacked Jerusalem about 67 AD. Which is why Jesus said...

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. - Matthew 24:24.. Which scripture you omitted above.

I don't know what your getting at.
And I can't agree because the question was asked Jesus, "3...Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
All these things have not been fulfilled!

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

What generation is Jesus talking about???

How can he be talking about the generation of 67 AD in verse 34 when in verse 31-33 he say's,

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 ¶Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the end) is near, even at the doors