For those who think Christ is not God.

[face2face]

@Johann if you don't read the Bible for yourself and quote Scripture with Scripture you will never come to a correct understanding of Jesus Christ.

 

[face2face]

@Johann @farouk @marks @Pearl one question on Isaiah 9:6 for now

The orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity holds that God is one Essence in three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, Isaiah 9:6 calls the Messiah “the everlasting Father.” How can Jesus be both the Father and the Son?

Not hard really.

Isaiah 8:17-18 quoted in Hebrews 2:13.

If Yahweh gives us, His Children to His beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, what does Jesus become?

Notice his position as Father was given on the basis of his obedience to God - i.e a reward i.e something Jesus did not have before he existed!!!!

Sorry @APAK I see you didnt attention that to me oops.

In short, he cannot be as trinitarian doctrine pronounces.

 

[Johann]

God himself could never do this, He could never dwell in corrupting flesh - boy He cant even look upon sin!

Thanks Face2Face for the challenge regarding IICor.5.21.
Looking at two verses prior, IICor.5.19, Paul says "..not imputing their trespasses unto them..".
Thus our trespasses as believers in Christ were
imputed to Christ, and thus was he regarded by God as the guilty one that had committed them - but Jesus did not become inherently sin or sinful.
Heb.13.8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever".
At the same time God reconciles believers in Christ to himself by imputing his (God's) righteousness to them - but believers do not become inherently God's righteousness in imputation.
Ro.4.6 "..the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness..".
These passages are dealing with judicial sentencing and reconciliation rather than inherent infusion.
J.

Regards blessed brother
J

 

[face2face]

Thanks Face2Face for the challenge regarding IICor.5.21.
Looking at two verses prior, IICor.5.19, Paul says "..not imputing their trespasses unto them..".
Thus our trespasses as believers in Christ were
imputed to Christ, and thus was he regarded by God as the guilty one that had committed them - but Jesus did not become inherently sin or sinful.
Regards blessed brother
J

If Jesus was sinless (which I agree) how did Christ represent us on the tree?

 

[face2face]

Heb.13.8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever".

Speaking of a resurrected Christ agree.

 

[face2face]

inherent infusion.

I wont touch that...sounds like another non biblical idea...kinda like the trinity lol

 

[APAK]

Not hard really.

Isaiah 8:17-18 quoted in Hebrews 2:13.

If Yahweh gives us, His Children to His beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, what does Jesus become?

Notice his position as Father was given on the basis of his obedience to God - i.e a reward i.e something Jesus did not have before he existed!!!!

Sorry @APAK I see you didnt attention that to me oops.

In short, he cannot be as trinitarian doctrine pronounces.

I was wanting others to attempt to explain my question first. You are already partly answering it in a round-about way. So now they have a big hint you have given them....;)

 

[Johann]

@Johann if you don't read the Bible for yourself and quote Scripture with Scripture you will never come to a correct understanding of Jesus Christ.[/QU

I wont touch that...sounds like another non biblical idea...kinda like the trinity lol

There is a lot of philosophizing going on on this forum not using biblical terminologies wouldn't you agree?
As to the Triune Godhead nothing is going to convince me otherwise.
Three o clock in the morning here so I'm signing off.
Shalom, J.

 

[face2face]

As to the Triune Godhead nothing is going to convince me otherwise.
Shalom, J.

You're not alone...many have been deceived as Paul prophesied would happen. Find your pre-creedal faith Johann - pre creedal...the answers are there - rest well.

 

[TLHKAJ]

If Jesus was sinless (which I agree) how did Christ represent us on the tree?

Isaiah 53:1-12
[1]Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2]For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[3]He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[4]Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5]But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[7]He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8]He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
[9]And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
[10]Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
[11]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[12]Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Johann]

You're not alone...many have been deceived as Paul prophesied would happen. Find your pre-creedal faith Johann - pre creedal...the answers are there - rest well.

The answer is not in creeds and confessions but in the living, active Word of YHVH
Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

Isaiah 53:1-12
[1]Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2]For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[3]He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[4]Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5]But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[7]He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8]He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
[9]And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
[10]Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
[11]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[12]Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

AH!
Praise the Lord Christ Jesus!
J.

 

[Johann]

If Jesus was sinless (which I agree) how did Christ represent us on the tree?

The Suffering Servant
1 Who מִ֥י mî H4310 Interrog has believed הֶאֱמִ֖ין he·’ĕ·mîn H539 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms our message? לִשְׁמֻעָתֵ֑נוּ liš·mu·‘ā·ṯê·nū H8052 Prep-l+N-fsc+1cp And to עַל־ ‘al- H5921 Prep whom מִ֥י mî H4310 Interrog has the arm וּזְר֥וֹעַ ū·zə·rō·w·a‘ H2220 Conj-w+N-fsc of the LORD יְהוָ֖ה Yah·weh H3068 N-proper-ms been revealed? נִגְלָֽתָה׃ niḡ·lā·ṯāh H1540 V-Nifal-Perf-3fs1 2 He grew up וַיַּ֨עַל way·ya·‘al H5927 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms before Him לְפָנָ֗יו lə·p̄ā·nāw H6440 Prep-l+N-cpc+3ms like a tender shoot, כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק kay·yō·w·nêq H3126 Prep-k,Art+N-ms and like a root וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ wə·ḵaš·šō·reš H8328 Conj-w,Prep-k,Art+N-ms out of dry צִיָּ֔ה ṣî·yāh H6723 Adj-fs ground. מֵאֶ֣רֶץ mê·’e·reṣ H776 Prep-m+N-fsc He had no לֹא־ lō- H3808 Adv-NegPrt stately form תֹ֥אַר ṯō·’ar H8389 N-ms - ל֖וֹ lōw H0 Prep+3ms or majesty הָדָ֑ר hā·ḏār H1926 N-ms to attract us, וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ wə·nir·’ê·hū H7200 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConjImperf.h-1cp+3ms no וְלֹֽא־ wə·lō- H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt - וְלֹ֣א wə·lō H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt beauty מַרְאֶ֖ה mar·’eh H4758 N-ms that we should desire Him. וְנֶחְמְדֵֽהוּ׃ wə·neḥ·mə·ḏê·hū H2530 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConjImperf.h-1cp+3ms 3 He was despised נִבְזֶה֙ niḇ·zeh H959 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms and rejected וַחֲדַ֣ל wa·ḥă·ḏal H2310 Conj-w+Adj-msc by men, אִישִׁ֔ים ’î·šîm H376 N-mp a man אִ֥ישׁ ’îš H376 N-msc of sorrows, מַכְאֹב֖וֹת maḵ·’ō·ḇō·wṯ H4341 N-mp acquainted וִיד֣וּעַ wî·ḏū·a‘ H3045 Conj-w+V-Qal-QalPassPrtcpl-msc with grief. חֹ֑לִי ḥō·lî H2483 N-ms Like one from whom men hide וּכְמַסְתֵּ֤ר ū·ḵə·mas·têr H4564 Conj-w,Prep-k+N-msc - מִמֶּ֔נּוּ mim·men·nū H4480 Prep+3ms their faces, פָּנִים֙ pā·nîm H6440 N-mp He was despised, נִבְזֶ֖ה niḇ·zeh H959 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms and we esteemed Him חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ׃ ḥă·šaḇ·nu·hū H2803 V-Qal-Perf-1cp+3ms not. וְלֹ֥א wə·lō H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt 4 Surely אָכֵ֤ן ’ā·ḵên H403 Adv He ה֣וּא hū H1931 Pro-3ms took on נָשָׂ֔א nā·śā H5375 V-Qal-Perf-3ms our infirmities חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ḥo·lā·yê·nū H2483 N-mpc+1cp and carried סְבָלָ֑ם sə·ḇā·lām H5445 V-Qal-Perf-3ms+3mp our sorrows; וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ ū·maḵ·’ō·ḇê·nū H4341 Conj-w+N-mpc+1cp2 yet we וַאֲנַ֣חְנוּ wa·’ă·naḥ·nū H587 Conj-w+Pro-1cp considered Him חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ ḥă·šaḇ·nu·hū H2803 V-Qal-Perf-1cp+3ms stricken נָג֛וּעַ nā·ḡū·a‘ H5060 V-Qal-QalPassPrtcpl-ms by God, אֱלֹהִ֖ים ’ĕ·lō·hîm H430 N-mp struck down מֻכֵּ֥ה muk·kêh H5221 V-Hofal-Prtcpl-msc and afflicted. וּמְעֻנֶּֽה׃ ū·mə·‘un·neh H6031 Conj-w+V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms 5 But He וְהוּא֙ wə·hū H1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms was pierced מְחֹלָ֣ל mə·ḥō·lāl H2490 V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms for our transgressions, מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ mip·pə·šā·‘ê·nū H6588 Prep-m+N-mpc+1cp He was crushed מְדֻכָּ֖א mə·ḏuk·kā H1792 V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms for our iniquities; מֵעֲוֺנֹתֵ֑ינוּ mê·‘ă·wō·nō·ṯê·nū H5771 Prep-m+N-cpc+1cp the punishment מוּסַ֤ר mū·sar H4148 N-msc that brought us peace שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ šə·lō·w·mê·nū H7965 N-msc+1cp was upon Him, עָלָ֔יו ‘ā·lāw H5921 Prep+3ms and by His stripes וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ ū·ḇa·ḥă·ḇu·rā·ṯōw H2250 Conj-w,Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms we are healed. נִרְפָּא־ nir·pā- H7495 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms3 - לָֽנוּ׃ lā·nū H0 Prep+1cp 6 We all כֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ kul·lā·nū H3605 N-msc+1cp like sheep כַּצֹּ֣אן kaṣ·ṣōn H6629 Prep-k,Art+N-cs have gone astray, תָּעִ֔ינוּ tā·‘î·nū H8582 V-Qal-Perf-1cp4 each one אִ֥ישׁ ’îš H376 N-ms has turned פָּנִ֑ינוּ pā·nî·nū H6437 V-Qal-Perf-1cp to his own way; לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ lə·ḏar·kōw H1870 Prep-l+N-csc+3ms and the LORD וַֽיהוָה֙ Yah·weh H3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms has laid הִפְגִּ֣יעַ hip̄·gî·a‘ H6293 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms - בּ֔וֹ bōw H0 Prep+3ms upon Him אֵ֖ת ’êṯ H853 DirObjM the iniquity עֲוֺ֥ן ‘ă·wōn H5771 N-csc of us all. כֻּלָּֽנוּ׃ kul·lā·nū H3605 N-msc+1cp 7 He was oppressed נִגַּ֨שׂ nig·gaś H5065 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms - וְה֣וּא wə·hū H1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms and afflicted, נַעֲנֶה֮ na·‘ă·neh H6031 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms yet He did not וְלֹ֣א wə·lō H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt open יִפְתַּח־ yip̄·taḥ- H6605 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms His mouth. פִּיו֒ pîw H6310 N-msc+3ms He was led יוּבָ֔ל yū·ḇāl H2986 V-Hofal-Imperf-3ms like a lamb כַּשֶּׂה֙ kaś·śeh H7716 Prep-k,Art+N-ms to the slaughter, לַטֶּ֣בַח laṭ·ṭe·ḇaḥ H2874 Prep-l,Art+N-ms and as a sheep וּכְרָחֵ֕ל ū·ḵə·rā·ḥêl H7353 Conj-w,Prep-k+N-fs before לִפְנֵ֥י lip̄·nê H6440 Prep-l+N-cpc her shearers גֹזְזֶ֖יהָ ḡō·zə·ze·hā H1494 V-Qal-Prtcpl-mpc+3fs is silent, נֶאֱלָ֑מָה ne·’ĕ·lā·māh H481 V-Nifal-Perf-3fs so He did not וְלֹ֥א wə·lō H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt open יִפְתַּ֖ח yip̄·taḥ H6605 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms His mouth. פִּֽיו׃ pîw H6310 N-msc+3ms 8 By oppression מֵעֹ֤צֶר mê·‘ō·ṣer H6115 Prep-m+N-ms and judgment וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ ū·mim·miš·pāṭ H4941 Conj-w,Prep-m+N-ms He was taken away, לֻקָּ֔ח luq·qāḥ H3947 V-QalPass-Perf-3ms and וְאֶת־ wə·’eṯ- H853 Conj-w+DirObjM who מִ֣י mî H4310 Interrog can recount יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ yə·śō·w·ḥê·aḥ H7878 V-Piel-Imperf-3ms His descendants? דּוֹר֖וֹ dō·w·rōw H1755 N-msc+3ms For כִּ֤י kî H3588 Conj He was cut off נִגְזַר֙ niḡ·zar H1504 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms from the land מֵאֶ֣רֶץ mê·’e·reṣ H776 Prep-m+N-fsc of the living; חַיִּ֔ים ḥay·yîm H2416 Adj-mp5 He was stricken נֶ֥גַע ne·ḡa‘ H5061 N-ms for the transgression מִפֶּ֥שַׁע mip·pe·ša‘ H6588 Prep-m+N-msc of My people. עַמִּ֖י ‘am·mî H5971 N-msc+1cs - לָֽמוֹ׃ lā·mōw H0 Prep+3mp
A Grave Assigned
9 He was assigned וַיִּתֵּ֤ן way·yit·tên H5414 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms a grave קִבְר֔וֹ qiḇ·rōw H6913 N-msc+3ms with אֶת־ ’eṯ- H854 Prep the wicked, רְשָׁעִים֙ rə·šā·‘îm H7563 Adj-mp and with וְאֶת־ wə·’eṯ- H854 Conj-w+Prep a rich man עָשִׁ֖יר ‘ā·šîr H6223 Adj-ms in His death, בְּמֹתָ֑יו bə·mō·ṯāw H4194 Prep-b+N-mpc+3ms although עַ֚ל ‘al H5921 Prep He had done עָשָׂ֔ה ‘ā·śāh H6213 V-Qal-Perf-3ms no לֹא־ lō- H3808 Adv-NegPrt violence, חָמָ֣ס ḥā·mās H2555 N-ms nor וְלֹ֥א wə·lō H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt was any deceit מִרְמָ֖ה mir·māh H4820 N-fs in His mouth. בְּפִֽיו׃ bə·p̄îw H6310 Prep-b+N-msc+3ms6 10 Yet it was the LORD’s וַיהוָ֞ה Yah·weh H3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms will חָפֵ֤ץ ḥā·p̄êṣ H2654 V-Qal-Perf-3ms to crush Him דַּכְּאוֹ֙ dak·kə·’ōw H1792 V-Piel-Inf+3ms and to cause Him to suffer; הֶֽחֱלִ֔י he·ḥĕ·lî H2470 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms and when אִם־ ’im- H518 Conj His soul נַפְשׁ֔וֹ nap̄·šōw H5315 N-fsc+3ms is made תָּשִׂ֤ים tā·śîm H7760 V-Qal-Imperf-3fs a guilt offering, אָשָׁם֙ ’ā·šām H817 N-ms7 He will see יִרְאֶ֥ה yir·’eh H7200 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms His offspring, זֶ֖רַע ze·ra‘ H2233 N-ms He will prolong יַאֲרִ֣יךְ ya·’ă·rîḵ H748 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms His days, יָמִ֑ים yā·mîm H3117 N-mp and the good pleasure וְחֵ֥פֶץ wə·ḥê·p̄eṣ H2656 Conj-w+N-msc of the LORD יְהוָ֖ה Yah·weh H3068 N-proper-ms will prosper יִצְלָֽח׃ yiṣ·lāḥ H6743 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms in His hand. בְּיָד֥וֹ bə·yā·ḏōw H3027 Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms 11 After the anguish מֵעֲמַ֤ל mê·‘ă·mal H5999 Prep-m+N-msc of His soul, נַפְשׁוֹ֙ nap̄·šōw H5315 N-fsc+3ms He will see the light of life יִרְאֶ֣ה yir·’eh H7200 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms8 and be satisfied. יִשְׂבָּ֔ע yiś·bā‘ H7646 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms By His knowledge בְּדַעְתּ֗וֹ bə·ḏa‘·tōw H1847 Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms My righteous צַדִּ֛יק ṣad·dîq H6662 Adj-ms Servant עַבְדִּ֖י ‘aḇ·dî H5650 N-msc+1cs will justify יַצְדִּ֥יק yaṣ·dîq H6663 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms many, לָֽרַבִּ֑ים lā·rab·bîm H7227 Prep-l,Art+Adj-mp and He ה֥וּא hū H1931 Pro-3ms will bear יִסְבֹּֽל׃ yis·bōl H5445 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms their iniquities. וַעֲוֺנֹתָ֖ם wa·‘ă·wō·nō·ṯām H5771 Conj-w+N-cpc+3mp 12 Therefore לָכֵ֞ן lā·ḵên H3651 Adv I will allot Him a portion אֲחַלֶּק־ ’ă·ḥal·leq- H2505 V-Piel-Imperf-1cs - ל֣וֹ lōw H0 Prep+3ms with the great, בָרַבִּ֗ים ḇā·rab·bîm H7227 Prep-b,Art+Adj-mp9 and He will divide יְחַלֵּ֣ק yə·ḥal·lêq H2505 V-Piel-Imperf-3ms the spoils שָׁלָל֒ šā·lāl H7998 N-ms with וְאֶת־ wə·’eṯ- H854 Conj-w+Prep the strong, עֲצוּמִים֮ ‘ă·ṣū·mîm H6099 Adj-mp10 because תַּ֗חַת ta·ḥaṯ H8478 Prep - אֲשֶׁ֨ר ’ă·šer H834 Pro-r He has poured out הֶעֱרָ֤ה he·‘ĕ·rāh H6168 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms His life נַפְשׁ֔וֹ nap̄·šōw H5315 N-fsc+3ms unto death, לַמָּ֙וֶת֙ lam·mā·weṯ H4194 Prep-l,Art+N-ms and He was numbered נִמְנָ֑ה nim·nāh H4487 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms with וְאֶת־ wə·’eṯ- H854 Conj-w+Prep the transgressors. פֹּשְׁעִ֖ים pō·šə·‘îm H6586 V-Qal-Prtcpl-mp11 Yet He וְהוּא֙ wə·hū H1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms bore נָשָׂ֔א nā·śā H5375 V-Qal-Perf-3ms the sin חֵטְא־ ḥêṭ- H2399 N-msc of many רַבִּ֣ים rab·bîm H7227 Adj-mp and made intercession יַפְגִּֽיעַ׃ס yap̄·gî·a‘ H6293 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms for the transgressors. וְלַפֹּשְׁעִ֖ים wə·lap·pō·šə·‘îm H6586 Conj-w,Prep-l,Art+V-Qal-Prtcpl-mp

The gospel, right here.
J.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes that is correct. We have two words to use, Father and Son, and who is superior, Father or Son. Is the Son of endless time greater than the Father of endless time?

Your point is very true Devin, again the Bible really doesn't use the term inferior/inferior, however Jesus did say that the Father was greater than he. Being someone's head in authority does not make one superior to the individual. Superiority is not really to be a trait among us, remember Jesus' words:

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed...


Do you agree with Thomas or do you doubt him?

Thomas was an apostle Devin, he knew who God was. Many versions add an exclamation point to that verse, as many have exclaimed my God when something shocking comes to their attention. It was the context, Thomas was not declaring Jesus to be God, but for the first time realized the man in their midst was actually Jesus living right in front of them. It would be a shock to anyone.

More Info:
*** it-2 pp. 55-56 Jesus Christ ***
What did Thomas mean when he said to Jesus, “My Lord and my God”?
On the occasion of Jesus’ appearance to Thomas and the other apostles, which had removed Thomas’ doubts of Jesus’ resurrection, the now-convinced Thomas exclaimed to Jesus: “My Lord and my God! [literally, “The Lord of me and the God (ho The·osʹ) of me!”].” (Joh 20:24-29) Some scholars have viewed this expression as an exclamation of astonishment spoken to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father. However, others claim the original Greek requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus. Even if this is so, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,” there is no reason for believing that Thomas thought Jesus was the Almighty God. (Joh 20:17) John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.”—Joh 20:30, 31.

So, Thomas may have addressed Jesus as “my God” in the sense of Jesus’ being “a god” though not the Almighty God, not “the only true God,” to whom Thomas had often heard Jesus pray. (Joh 17:1-3) Or he may have addressed Jesus as “my God” in a way similar to expressions made by his forefathers, recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures, with which Thomas was familiar. On various occasions when individuals were visited or addressed by an angelic messenger of Jehovah, the individuals, or at times the Bible writer setting out the account, responded to or spoke of that angelic messenger as though he were Jehovah God. (Compare Ge 16:7-11, 13; 18:1-5, 22-33; 32:24-30; Jg 6:11-15; 13:20-22.) This was because the angelic messenger was acting for Jehovah as his representative, speaking in his name, perhaps using the first person singular pronoun, and even saying, “I am the true God.” (Ge 31:11-13; Jg 2:1-5) Thomas may therefore have spoken to Jesus as “my God” in this sense, acknowledging or confessing Jesus as the representative and spokesman of the true God. Whatever the case, it is certain that Thomas’ words do not contradict the clear statement he himself had heard Jesus make, namely, “The Father is greater than I am.”—Joh 14:28.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Sorry to say this, as a JW" witness you would concur with them.
Jesus the Christ is God.
J.

May I honestly ask Joe, and I do recognize your sincerity my friend, what hope do you have since you have to acknowledge that if Jesus is God he lied at Mk 10:40 and 13:32?

 

[Robert Gwin]

I know in Whom I have entrusted myself, you don't Robert.
J.

That is plain silly Joe. I certainly hope you are in error sir. I believe I know Jehovah fairly well, after all I do believe He wants us to know Him, that is the reason He authored the Bible, don't you think?

 

[Robert Gwin]

It puzzles me immensely that anyone can think Messiah is NOT God..
J.

I believe you answered what the word Messiah is correct? Since I believe you know, then who was it that made Jesus the Messiah? Is God anointed, or does He do the anointing?

 

[Truther]

When was Jesus begotten?
J.

He was the firstborn of creation.

So, he was begotten of Mary before the foundation of the world, since he was slain back then.

God transcends time.

God witnessed the life of Jesus in real time and knew him when He decided to make the worlds by, for and through him.

 

[Truther]

Oh boy
J.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[Truther]

How do you figure? Was Adam made from a fertized egg?

Much love!

The last Adam was.

He was of the seed of Abraham, tribe of Judah.