Once Saved, Always Saved?
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so tell me have you ever seen the t.v show Fantasy Island your post like the show has NO Merit . you remind me of a little kid who has never been spanked. you cant even defend your stance ..i could blow you out of the saddle with scripture if i chose .. but i am not in the least bit interested. Every thing posted has went over your head
Taken
Well-Known Member
Agree.
MERCY original meaning “price paid”.
Such as “obedience, submission, etc.” being the “priced paid”, thus one gains Gods MERCY.
As well, God IS JUST.
Knowledge is given, IF this, THEN that, reveals the Consequences (favorable or unfavorable) for mans choices, acts and behavior.
Men are offered to CHOOSE, a WAY to gain eternal life WITH God.
As well, a WAY to CHOOSE eternal death WITHOUT God.
I do see men who choose eternal life WITH God, God gives His Mercy, via Forgiveness, thus, Void of being subject to the unfavorable punishment.
I also see men who choose eternal life WITHOUT God, Gods JUSTICE, to cause that mans Desire to be Manifested...
^ regarding such man ^
* his body void of it’s life (blood)
* his body void of it’s living soul (Gods Breath), returns to God, soul lifeless.
Lifeless body, Lifeless soul, Destroyed.
* Also, his spirit never reborn, of Gods seed, becoming an everlasting LIVING SPIRIT....(and separated from God)...
Curious, would you call that MERCY or JUSTICE or both?
Glory to God,
Taken
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Baloney.
There is no scripture that teaches Once Saved Always Saved. But there are scriptures that teach the opposite VERY clearly. I’m sure you are familiar with them since you learn quickly how to twist those scriptures and render them powerless against your false doctrine.
OSAS is part of another false teaching, Dispensational Theology, that allows for other false teachings to be born, like the pre-trib rapture lie as well.
And most people who have believed lies for a while are hard to reform.
Just these (among many others):
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1-4)
"I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine for you all making my prayer with joy, because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now. And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1:3-6)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)
Nope. They teach very clearly that for those who are not in Christ Jesus, not redeemed/saved, there is certainly condemnation for sin, both in the present and, if they remain in that state, in the future.
I agree in principle regarding dispensationalism in general and the "Rapture," but both dispensational theology and covenantal theology (which opposes dispensationalism) hold that God's work of salvation in the person is invincible. What you folks who can't bring yourselves to understand is that what you are really so against ~ and I'm with you on this ~ is something called antinomianism, which means "against the law," which holds, basically, that there are no more consequences for sin. Well, of course there are consequences for sin, and they can be quite severe, but for those in Christ Jesus, there is no more condemnation for sin.
Well... Sure, I guess. They get dug in, and then it becomes a personal thing. Yeah, lack of humility is a terrible thing.
Grace and peace to you.
bbyrd009
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well ty :)
maybe keep an open mind on that Word thing
“In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God”
"The basis in receiving mercy is obedience, that idea is found throughout the Bible... If man obeys, then God's predetermined course of action is to show mercy. If man disobeys, then God's predetermined course of action is to not show mercy."
No, the basis of God's mercy is His grace ~ which is unmerited favor ~ and is irrefutably of His own volition. One cannot merit God's grace via obedience or any other means, else God's grace would not be grace at all. As God Himself says, and Moses and then Paul quote, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and compassion on whom I will have compassion." Even the price paid ~ the wages of sin; death ~ was of God, in the Person of Jesus Christ.
Grace and peace to all.
No, the basis of God's mercy is His grace ~ which is unmerited favor ~ and is irrefutably of His own volition. One cannot merit God's grace via obedience or any other means, else God's grace would not be grace at all. As God Himself says, and Moses and then Paul quote, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and compassion on whom I will have compassion." Even the price paid ~ the wages of sin; death ~ was of God, in the Person of Jesus Christ.
Grace and peace to all.
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Hey, @PinSeeker
Meditate on this a while:
“But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.” (Luke 12:45-46)
And if this scripture has already been taken away from you by the Devil, I cannot help you.
Meditate on this a while:
“But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.” (Luke 12:45-46)
And if this scripture has already been taken away from you by the Devil, I cannot help you.
Marymog
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That Word thing??? Oh goodness......Once again you have fulfilled 2 Peter 3:16
That is NOT what John 1:1 means. The "word" is NOT the "Bible". That is bizarre....Who taught you that?
bbyrd009
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that was the point mary :)That Word thing??? Oh goodness......Once again you have fulfilled 2 Peter 3:16
That is NOT what John 1:1 means. The "word" is NOT the "Bible". That is bizarre....Who taught you that?
Marymog
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LATE EDIT: Never mind....I went back and read your string of posts on this matter. I THINK I understand or figured out what you are saying. Respectfully, Mary
Yes, I've meditated on that quite a lot, as well as the rest of Scripture. :) Yes, everyone is a servant, whether they realize it or not. And as for this servant being spoken of here, the Master will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers, not because he believed and then became an unbeliever, but because he was really an unbeliever all along. He will be like all the others standing on Jesus's left at the Judgment (depicted by Jesus in Matthew 25:31-46), who, upon His final command to them, will depart, because He never knew (loved; chose, in a sovereign, distinguishing way) them.
Grace and peace to you.
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Michiah-Imla
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Michiah-Imla
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before i begin i am neither osas or osnas .what i am is a know so salvation i know i am saved and i KNOW NO MAN CAN PLUCK ME OUT OF THE FATHERS HAND ...... BUT SINCE YOU ASKED while you read what does the word eternal mean ? next have you ever went to be saved and woke up lost ?
John 10:28
“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” you will say we can walk away or remove our self.... show me scripture saying them exact words...
this is Jesus prayer for the saved
John 17:1-3
King James Version
17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
2 Timothy 1:11-13
King James Version
11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
i am stopping at romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 2:24-26
King James Version
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
John 10:28
“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” you will say we can walk away or remove our self.... show me scripture saying them exact words...
this is Jesus prayer for the saved
John 17:1-3
King James Version
17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
2 Timothy 1:11-13
King James Version
11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
i am stopping at romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 2:24-26
King James Version
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
There’s no need to quote scripture to you. You have made up your mind already. You already know what scriptures I will quote to you and you are already trained in dismissing them. And if you believe that you can never loose your salvation then you are by definition a believer of the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.
In order to be strengthened in OSAS you have to stop reading the whole of scripture so that the doctrine of OSAS remains strong in you. Otherwise, little by little, through repetition, the Bible will chip away at it. So I suggest you start reading the Bible again like you did when you first came into the faith.
You need more Bible and less speeches from men.
so far a speech is all i have gotten from you.. let me help you out budddyyyy i am gen baptist minister.. my doctrine is from studying the Bible ..might i add i gave you scripture not osas doctrine. can you show me any error in the scriptures i posted ? i hate to bust your Bible i am trained by scripture ..NOT CHURCH DOCTRINE IF THE BIBLE SAYS THAT I MAY KNOW I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE..... THEN I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE . what do you have are you not secure in your salvation.. can you explain Christ saying no man can pluck us out of his hands? why dont you explain romans 6 ..instead of trying to lecture me with your pointless speech not backed by scripture ..
this sounds like black clouds in the summer lots of thunder but no rain all noise no results
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