Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[shilohsfoal]

So then in your opinion who or what was the beast and who or what was the religious figure (lamb with 2 horns) that ordered the image of the beast and what was the mark?

The beast is a kingdom like Daniel said.
The horns are kings representing nations. Ten of the nations in that kingdom have one mind meaning they think much alike. In that kingdom is a city that sits on seven hills. There is a little horn which came up last and it is diverse from the other horns and it appears to be stouter than the rest and it defeated three of the others.

The kingdom is the promised land and the city that sits on seven hills is Jerusalem. The ten nations are Muslim nations who hate Jerusalem. The little horn is Israel who in 1967 defeated Egypt, Syria, and Jordan to take the city of Jerusalem.

It is the Israeli goverment who will mark its citizens who have assembled from all nations.
The saints in Israel will reject the mark and will testify throughout Israel while bejng persecuted and hated and put to death.
At the time of the end the ten Muslim nations attack Jerusalem and conquer it. They also kill much of Israel's population, many others will flee.

The beast with two horns is a military given to Israel by the king of the north which will attempt to protect Jerusalem. It will practice authority on behalf of the Israeli goverment. I suspect Israel may join NATO before any of this takes place.

As much as I've read of Israel collecting taxes in the scripture and as God's contempt for such actions,I would say the mark is used for collecting taxes.

Israel eyes cashless economy to boost tax collection

In the end, the beast is destroyed, the saints who are killed in Israel, who did not worship the beast or recieve its mark will be resurrected and shall reign with Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[

The beast is a kingdom like Daniel said.
The horns are kings representing nations. Ten of the nations in that kingdom have one mind meaning they think much alike. In that kingdom is a city that sits on seven hills. There is a little horn which came up last and it is diverse from the other horns and it appears to be stouter than the rest and it defeated three of the others.

The kingdom is the promised land and the city that sits on seven hills is Jerusalem. The ten nations are Muslim nations who hate Jerusalem. The little horn is Israel who in 1967 defeated Egypt, Syria, and Jordan to take the city of Jerusalem.

It is the Israeli goverment who will mark its citizens who have assembled from all nations.
The saints in Israel will reject the mark and will testify throughout Israel while bejng persecuted and hated and put to death.
At the time of the end the ten Muslim nations attack Jerusalem and conquer it. They also kill much of Israel's population, many others will flee.

The beast with two horns is a military given to Israel by the king of the north which will attempt to protect Jerusalem. It will practice authority on behalf of the Israeli goverment. I suspect Israel may join NATO before any of this takes place.

As much as I've read of Israel collecting taxes in the scripture and as God's contempt for such actions,I would say the mark is used for collecting taxes.

Israel eyes cashless economy to boost tax collection

I only got to your statement that the ten horns are ten nations! Which 100% contradicts teh Inspired word of God!

Daniel 7:23-24
King James Version

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

You and teh bible are in disagreement!

I can biblically demolish the rest of your argument, but if you refuse to recognize the fact you are wrong in your very first sentence, why should I waste my time showing you why you have gotten hold of bad teaching.

 

[shilohsfoal]

[


I only got to your statement that the ten horns are ten nations! Which 100% contradicts teh Inspired word of God!

Daniel 7:23-24
King James Version

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

You and teh bible are in disagreement!

I can biblically demolish the rest of your argument, but if you refuse to recognize the fact you are wrong in your very first sentence, why should I waste my time showing you why you have gotten hold of bad teaching.

I actually said the 10 horns are kings representing kingdoms.
But if you insist these kings don't have kingdoms then they are not very good kings. LOL

You can attempt to demolish the truth as you often do but it's you who comes away with nothing.
Nothing learned, nothing gained.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I actually said the 10 horns are kings representing kingdoms.
But if you insist these kings don't have kingdoms then they are not very good kings. LOL

You can attempt to demolish the truth as you often do but it's you who comes away with nothing.
Nothing learned, nothing gained.

My bad, but they are not arab nations. the arise fronm teh fourth beast kingdom which started with rome.

You have to remember that the fourth kingdom arose after Greece and continues on until Jesus returns! It started with Imperial Rome, then the two empires, which divided . In the East it stayed in Constaninople until the middle ages , when it moved to Russia and remains there to this day.

In the west it moved forst to Germany, then France, Spain and now resides inthe UK/US. This will fall and we will have a one world govt. as declared in Dan. 7. It is during this one world govt. that the tenkings arise and the antichrist arises after them.

And the lamb with two horns is a religious figure!

So when was the mark instituted?

when di dhte angel fly warning everyone?

YOu were quick to pounce on my error but fail to answer these biblical questions.

 

[shilohsfoal]

My bad, but they are not arab nations. the arise fronm teh fourth beast kingdom which started with rome.

You have to remember that the fourth kingdom arose after Greece and continues on until Jesus returns! It started with Imperial Rome, then the two empires, which divided . In the East it stayed in Constaninople until the middle ages , when it moved to Russia and remains there to this day.

In the west it moved forst to Germany, then France, Spain and now resides inthe UK/US. This will fall and we will have a one world govt. as declared in Dan. 7. It is during this one world govt. that the tenkings arise and the antichrist arises after them.

And the lamb with two horns is a religious figure!

So when was the mark instituted?

when di dhte angel fly warning everyone?

YOu were quick to pounce on my error but fail to answer these biblical questions.

Your the one who says Rome is the beast. You tell me when Rome gave everyone the mark of the beast used to buy and sell.


Revelation 13:16 And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Revelation 13:17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark--the name of the beast or the number of its name.

 

[dad]

I was clear. You simply can't understand.
Ezekiel coresponds to revelation. They both say the same things concerning the order of things. You simply can't understand them.
I would say there is a good explanation why you can't understand. I will leave it at that.

Yes it corresponds. Not in a way that says that there is no battle involving Gog in the Tribulation though. So, to be clear, I offered several reasons why the prophesy was not about the battle at the end of the thousand years.

Here is a quote from where I addressed this and for which you have not responded.

"Looking at a few aspects of that battle, the end of the 1000 yrs is not a good fit. It talks of every man's sword being against one another. The swords were beaten into farm instruments long long before the end of the millennium. There is no mention of some great battle at the end of that time either, God simply destroys them with fire when they surround the camp of the saints. Then it talks of how the nations will be awed and give Him glory when they see this. The thing is (at the end of the 1000 years) all the earth is burned and made new, so where would you think those nations would be? Also, who cares about a shaking in Israel when the world is gone and made new? How much shaking is involved in burning to a crisp some rebels that surround the camp of saints? Then God mentions how it was prophesied that nations would come against Israel in the end. That is about the Tribulation time. The phrase 'latter days' is also a clue about when. I also do not see how people who have lived under the direct rule of God and His people for many many centuries would think they had any hope whatsoever of leaving the camp of the saints with great booty! Their best hope would almost certainly be that they thought they might kill them before their little suicide mission ended!"

 

[Timtofly]

Wow have you rewritten scripture even worse than the Watchtower!

Now you have Jesus as a Roman prince. what 7 year covenant did this Messiah of yours make with the many?

The Messiah died on the Cross and was the Atonement. Daniel 9:27 does not say "make" nor "7 years". It says "confirm for a set of sevens". Jesus is both Messiah and Prince. No place ever in Daniel 9 does it mention the Romans. The "Romans" are not even around any more.

You are adding your own opinion to Gabriel's message.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your the one who says Rome is the beast. You tell me when Rome gave everyone the mark of the beast used to buy and sell.


Revelation 13:16 And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Revelation 13:17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark--the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Well I said Rome was the start of the fourth beast kingdom of Daniel 7. It has gone through several iterations since. remember these kingdoms are in power from Babylon till Jesus returns, so the fourth beast is still in power, it is Russia and the US/UK.

Rome di dnot institute teh mark- it has not happened yet. You say it has, so I want to know when you believe the mark was instituted. do not change the subject and read my words more carefully .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Messiah died on the Cross and was the Atonement. Daniel 9:27 does not say "make" nor "7 years". It says "confirm for a set of sevens". Jesus is both Messiah and Prince. No place ever in Daniel 9 does it mention the Romans. The "Romans" are not even around any more.

You are adding your own opinion to Gabriel's message.

Well if the 69 sevens are years, then the 70th seven is years. You have to show from Scripture otherwise and there is nothing in the text to even hint at the first 69sevensare 483 years and the 70th is an undefined period of time.

the people who came and destroyed the sanctuary are the romans! That is simply historic fact. So if you demand the prince of the people who come and destroy the sanctuary be Jesus- then He is Roman.

Jesus is the atonement, but that is not what is said here. Israel has to make atonement for their sin!

so if I am adding to Gabriels message- who are the people who come and destroy the sanctuary????????????????????????????

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well I said Rome was the start of the fourth beast kingdom of Daniel 7. It has gone through several iterations since. remember these kingdoms are in power from Babylon till Jesus returns, so the fourth beast is still in power, it is Russia and the US/UK.

Rome di dnot institute teh mark- it has not happened yet. You say it has, so I want to know when you believe the mark was instituted. do not change the subject and read my words more carefully .

I never said the mark was instituted. I say the Israeli goverment will institute the mark in a few years though.

 

[Timtofly]

Well if the 69 sevens are years, then the 70th seven is years. You have to show from Scripture otherwise and there is nothing in the text to even hint at the first 69sevensare 483 years and the 70th is an undefined period of time.

the people who came and destroyed the sanctuary are the romans! That is simply historic fact. So if you demand the prince of the people who come and destroy the sanctuary be Jesus- then He is Roman.

Jesus is the atonement, but that is not what is said here. Israel has to make atonement for their sin!

so if I am adding to Gabriels message- who are the people who come and destroy the sanctuary????????????????????????????

The Jews revolted and were the instruments of their own destruction. Those who crucified Jesus claimed blood vengeance on their children and grandchildren. That is exactly what happened.

The 70th week is Jesus as Messiah and Prince. It is defined in the work of Jesus on earth. 3.5 years as Messiah. The remainder as Prince on the throne of His glory in Matthew 25:31.

The Lamb is the only one found worthy to open the sealed book. The only anointed one. The only Prince. The only one who can bring peace to the earth to accomplish all the promises in Daniel 9:24. The only one who gives Satan any authority, and who can allow 42 months of utter desolation. Not once in Revelation is an AC mentioned. Just Satan, the FP, and the beast.

There is no defined 7 year period in Revelation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I never said the mark was instituted. I say the Israeli goverment will institute the mark in a few years though.

Well you say- but the bible says much different! You love to reinterpret SCriptures to fit an agenda! where is Israel going to enforce this made up mark? The bible says it is global! You think Israel will be a world power strong enough to make the world wear a mark or die?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well you say- but the bible says much different! You love to reinterpret SCriptures to fit an agenda! where is Israel going to enforce this made up mark? The bible says it is global! You think Israel will be a world power strong enough to make the world wear a mark or die?

No, it's not global. That much I've learned. I'm actually glad it isn't global. I was quite worried about my family for a while there but no more. I don't live in Babylon.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Jews revolted and were the instruments of their own destruction. Those who crucified Jesus claimed blood vengeance on their children and grandchildren. That is exactly what happened.

The 70th week is Jesus as Messiah and Prince. It is defined in the work of Jesus on earth. 3.5 years as Messiah. The remainder as Prince on the throne of His glory in Matthew 25:31.

Wrong! Jesus kingdom on earth will last 1000 years as declared in REv.

The 70th week is what scripture says- it is the time of the great tribulation. YOu only say that because you refuse to accept teh bible as written and twist it to force grammar rules that do not exist.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, it's not global. That much I've learned. I'm actually glad it isn't global. I was quite worried about my family for a while there but no more. I don't live in Babylon.

Well the bible certainly disagrees with you 100%

From REv. 13:

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

It is global!

Just like the fourth beast started with Rome, then migrated in the east from Constantinople to Russia and the West to Germany, France Spain, ands now the US/UK so also will the fourth beast have a one world govt. form which the ten kings arise from and then the antichrist from teh ten kings!

 

[Timtofly]

Wrong! Jesus kingdom on earth will last 1000 years as declared in REv.

The 70th week is what scripture says- it is the time of the great tribulation. YOu only say that because you refuse to accept teh bible as written and twist it to force grammar rules that do not exist.

Jesus is the 70th week. He will prepare the way for His own 1,000 year reign. All Adam's flesh and blood will be removed. It will not take 7 years. The Messiah half was already completed 1992 years ago.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well the bible certainly disagrees with you 100%

From REv. 13:

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

It is global!

Just like the fourth beast started with Rome, then migrated in the east from Constantinople to Russia and the West to Germany, France Spain, ands now the US/UK so also will the fourth beast have a one world govt. form which the ten kings arise from and then the antichrist from teh ten kings!

You just described Babylon. I already told you I'm not in Babylon. Jeez

 

[Timtofly]

You just described Babylon. I already told you I'm not in Babylon. Jeez

They have an internet connection in Paradise?

 

[shilohsfoal]

They have an internet connection in Paradise?

Babylon is a city built on seven hills. I don't live in that city built on seven hills.That doesn't mean I'm in paridise. It means I don't live in the city of Babylon.

 

[Timtofly]

Babylon is a city built on seven hills. I don't live in that city built on seven hills.That doesn't mean I'm in paridise. It means I don't live in the city of Babylon.

And yet the final battle is at Armageddon, not even Babylon. You live on the earth. You will be affected.