Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[Davy]

The prophesies between Revelation 7 and Rev 19:10, make a time gap quite clear. Also we have the 70th 'week' - a 7 year period yet to happen, between the Sixth Seal and the Return.

No time gaps between the Revelation 6:14-17 verses of the 6th Seal and 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial events. They all happen at the SAME time on the LAST DAY of this world with Jesus' coming. It's just that the 'event' descriptions are spread out when written down. Those events will happen very quickly and that is why Paul taught God's destruction upon the wicked will be at an instant, suddenly. Paul even showed the end of this world with his idea of being changed at the 'twinkling of an eye', fast as one can blink and this world is suddenly over.

God through Isaiah even gave how fast those events will end this present world by comparing it to one who dreams of a great feast with good food, and suddenly they wake up out of the dream and realize they're still hungry. He also compares it to turning a bottle of liquid upside down with its contents poured out quickly, making a gurgling sound.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If by 'Israel', you mean the mixed race peoples currently inhabiting a small part of the holy Land; then you are wrong.
Over 20 Prophesies say how all the peoples currently living in the Middle East region, will be gone after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Only a remnant of faithful Jews will survive. Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27

The 'many' who will agree with the 7 year treaty, will be Christian peoples, who are by that time occupying all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26, +
Proved by Daniel 11:32, Zechariah 14:2b and Revelation 12:6-17, where we are told how the Christian people will be divided into two groups.

Well as you are not god and you have no right to rewrite Scripture to suit your agenda, I will take Gos Word for it. I think God knows much better than you who is an Israeli and who is not!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

First of all there is only one covenant with mankind since the foundation of heaven and earth. It is for the redemption of Adam's descendents. There is only a few months left in the 70th week. No where in Scripture is there a 7 year covenant. The Atonement was to cover all 6,000 years of humanity. Why are you putting any limits on the Atonement? This is the end of the line. This is the time of the final harvest. So confirming the covenant is the reason that desolation comes for 42 months. God is longsuffering and will even allow time for Satan to be in control, just to extend an opportunity 42 months longer so more humans are saved from eternal death.

YOu need to read you r scriptures. You do not even know what you are talking about!

I put no limits on the atonement. That is your sin of presumptuousness forcing words I do not believe into what I write!
There is still 7 years left in the 70 sevens of Daniel.

 

[Keraz]

Well as you are not god and you have no right to rewrite Scripture to suit your agenda, I will take Gos Word for it. I think God knows much better than you who is an Israeli and who is not!

He surely does!
And He has told us in 20+ prophesies that He will destroy those Israelis, all the people who have falsely claimed the name of Israel and who reject Jesus as the Messiah. Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27

Faithful Christian people, from every tribe, race, nation and language; are the true Israelites of God. Rev 5:9
It is the 'rapture to heaven' belief that has re-written scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

YOu need to read you r scriptures. You do not even know what you are talking about!

I put no limits on the atonement. That is your sin of presumptuousness forcing words I do not believe into what I write!
There is still 7 years left in the 70 sevens of Daniel.

I did. The Atonement is the covenant and it covered all 6,000 years, and not some man made 7 year period prior to the Second Coming.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

He surely does!
And He has told us in 20+ prophesies that He will destroy those Israelis, all the people who have falsely claimed the name of Israel and who reject Jesus as the Messiah. Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27

Faithful Christian people, from every tribe, race, nation and language; are the true Israelites of God. Rev 5:9
It is the 'rapture to heaven' belief that has re-written scripture.

Well in these generations, but the 70th wek of Daniel or the tribulation as is called by many, one of the two purposes is to purge out of Israel the rebel and unbeliever.

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

As God inspired this passage to be written, He will restore the Israeli peoples to their land of covenant. And God will force them to pass under the rod (judgment), purge the unbeliever out and then bring in by force, the Jewish peoples into the bond of the New covenant!

God even tells us how many will survive the tribulation and receive Jesus as Messiah:

Zechariah 13:8-9
King James Version

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

1/3 of the Jews entering the trib period or 70th week of Daniel will survive, and they as a nation will receive Jesus as Messiah as Paul also wrote under the Inpsiration of the Holy Spirit:

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
King James Version

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Romans 11:25-26
King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

A normal usual grammatical reading of Gods Word shows God will save the nation of Israel and they inherit the land. There is no such thing as the church being the "new Israel" or spiritual Israel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I did. The Atonement is the covenant and it covered all 6,000 years, and not some man made 7 year period prior to the Second Coming.

Well I know Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World and that all men are saved because of His blood! But every time the word covenant appears it is not referring to either the Adamic, Edenic, Abrahamic, Noahic, Davidic, Palestinian or New covenant!

And the covenant in Daniel 9 is a covenant between Israel and the antichrist! NO matter how you wish to destroy grammar and reinterpret it, that is still the Word of God! And if it is a typical covenant that Israel has entered into since 1948 it could be a land for peace covenant.

 

[Keraz]

A normal usual grammatical reading of Gods Word shows God will save the nation of Israel and they inherit the land. There is no such thing as the church being the "new Israel" or spiritual Israel.

This vexing question goes back to King Rehoboam's time, when The house of Israel spilt from the house of Judah. They remain separated today. Ezekiel 37 remains unfulfilled.
The Jews have wrongly usurped the name of Israel and the descendants of the true Israel remain scattered among the nations. Proved by how they are now a vast, uncountable number. They ARE the Christian peoples, the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelites.

I said that there are 20+ Prophesies which tell about the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Why don't you believe them?
I will post some of them for you to see how they have never yet been fulfilled:
Ezekiel 20:46-47 Look to the South; prophesy to the Negev. The Lord says: I am about to kindle a fire in you, it will consume all flammable things, green and dry alike. From the Negev northward, everyone will be scorched by it.

Ezekiel 21:4 It is because I intend to make away with both righteous and wicked alike, that My sword is drawn against everyone from the Negev, northward.

Isaiah 9:18-19 Wicked men have been set ablaze like a fire – wrapped in smoke. The Land is scorched by the fury of the Lord and the people are food for the fire.

Isaiah 28:22 Destruction is decreed on the whole Land.

Jeremiah 13:19 The towns in the Negev are besieged and no one can relieve them. All Judah have been swept into exile; swept clean away.

Jeremiah 21:11 & 14 To the Royal House of Judah; I shall punish you as you deserve, says the Lord. I shall set fire to your scrubland, [the Negev] it will devour everything round about.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord washes away the filth of Jerusalem and cleanses Zion, by a spirit of judgement like fire. On His terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Hosea 8:14 Israel has forgotten her Maker. Judah has many walled cities, but I shall burn them and fire will devour her citadels. Amos 2:4-5

Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a scorching wind has gone out from the Lord, a sweeping whirlwind which whirls around the heads of the wicked.

Zephaniah 1:4-6 Judah will be judged and those who neither sought the Lord or enquired of Him, will be wiped out.

Zechariah 3:9 In a single Day, I shall wipe away the guilt of this Land.


Ezekiel 36:33-36 The Lord says: When I have cleansed you of all your wrongdoing, I shall resettle the towns and the ruined places will be rebuilt. The Land, now desolate will be tilled, instead of lying waste for all to see. Everyone will say that this Land has become like a garden of Eden, and the towns, once ruined, wasted and shattered will now be fortified and inhabited. The nations still left around you will know that it is I, the Lord, who has rebuilt the shattered towns and replanted the Land laid waste – I the Lord have spoken and I shall do it.

 

[Timtofly]

Well I know Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World and that all men are saved because of His blood! But every time the word covenant appears it is not referring to either the Adamic, Edenic, Abrahamic, Noahic, Davidic, Palestinian or New covenant!

And the covenant in Daniel 9 is a covenant between Israel and the antichrist! NO matter how you wish to destroy grammar and reinterpret it, that is still the Word of God! And if it is a typical covenant that Israel has entered into since 1948 it could be a land for peace covenant.

Since the Cross was the covenant of Messiah the Prince, making up some human AC will never change my mind. The verse does not say "make". The verse says "confirmed".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This vexing question goes back to King Rehoboam's time, when The house of Israel spilt from the house of Judah. They remain separated today. Ezekiel 37 remains unfulfilled.
The Jews have wrongly usurped the name of Israel and the descendants of the true Israel remain scattered among the nations. Proved by how they are now a vast, uncountable number. They ARE the Christian peoples, the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelites.

I said that there are 20+ Prophesies which tell about the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Why don't you believe them?
I will post some of them for you to see how they have never yet been fulfilled:
Ezekiel 20:46-47 Look to the South; prophesy to the Negev. The Lord says: I am about to kindle a fire in you, it will consume all flammable things, green and dry alike. From the Negev northward, everyone will be scorched by it.

Ezekiel 21:4 It is because I intend to make away with both righteous and wicked alike, that My sword is drawn against everyone from the Negev, northward.

Isaiah 9:18-19 Wicked men have been set ablaze like a fire – wrapped in smoke. The Land is scorched by the fury of the Lord and the people are food for the fire.

Isaiah 28:22 Destruction is decreed on the whole Land.

Jeremiah 13:19 The towns in the Negev are besieged and no one can relieve them. All Judah have been swept into exile; swept clean away.

Jeremiah 21:11 & 14 To the Royal House of Judah; I shall punish you as you deserve, says the Lord. I shall set fire to your scrubland, [the Negev] it will devour everything round about.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord washes away the filth of Jerusalem and cleanses Zion, by a spirit of judgement like fire. On His terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Hosea 8:14 Israel has forgotten her Maker. Judah has many walled cities, but I shall burn them and fire will devour her citadels. Amos 2:4-5

Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a scorching wind has gone out from the Lord, a sweeping whirlwind which whirls around the heads of the wicked.

Zephaniah 1:4-6 Judah will be judged and those who neither sought the Lord or enquired of Him, will be wiped out.

Zechariah 3:9 In a single Day, I shall wipe away the guilt of this Land.


Ezekiel 36:33-36 The Lord says: When I have cleansed you of all your wrongdoing, I shall resettle the towns and the ruined places will be rebuilt. The Land, now desolate will be tilled, instead of lying waste for all to see. Everyone will say that this Land has become like a garden of Eden, and the towns, once ruined, wasted and shattered will now be fortified and inhabited. The nations still left around you will know that it is I, the Lord, who has rebuilt the shattered towns and replanted the Land laid waste – I the Lord have spoken and I shall do it.

We are done here. I cannot handle your twisting of Scripture to support your false concepts. I can say amen to all these Scriptures, but you can't say Amen to the scriptures I cited. Of course you will probably come up with some cock-a-mamey reason why! Have the last word, I will not respond.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Since the Cross was the covenant of Messiah the Prince, making up some human AC will never change my mind. The verse does not say "make". The verse says "confirmed".

YOU need to learn what that English word meant in the original language! You will see that there is a human/spiritual antichrist. The perfect counterfeit of the real Jesus. Human mother/ spiritual father (Satan HImself as declared in Gen. 3).

 

[Timtofly]

YOU need to learn what that English word meant in the original language! You will see that there is a human/spiritual antichrist. The perfect counterfeit of the real Jesus. Human mother/ spiritual father (Satan HImself as declared in Gen. 3).

There is no word in the Hebrew of Daniel 9:27 declaring a spiritual anti-christ type villain.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is no word in the Hebrew of Daniel 9:27 declaring a spiritual anti-christ type villain.

He is called the prince of the people who will come and destroy the sanctuary. when you couple him with all the other prophecies, you learn he is the antichrist!

 

[shilohsfoal]

Wrong,! If you read carefully you will find it is Israel being restored as a nation to her land in 37 and in 38-39 it is Israel being attacked by Russia and some nations.

Teh Rev. 20 god invasion involves the whole earth.

Teh Ez. gog invasion shows Russia destroyed on the foothills and a revival among the peoples.

REv. 20 god invasion results in the great white throne judgment!

These are massive differences that cannot just be allegorized away!

WRONG LOLOLOL

Bringing the dead back to life is called the resurection. It's when the dead bodies in Israel are raised and God breaths life back into those dead bodies. It was for this cause Joseph wanted his dried bones carried back into the promised land. So he could be resurrected with Abraham Issacc and Jacob.

Ezekiel 37:6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh grow upon you and cover you with skin. I will put breath within you so that you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.'"

 

[shilohsfoal]

Looking at a few aspects of that battle, the end of the 1000 yrs is not a good fit. It talks of every man's sword being against one another. The swords were beaten into farm instruments long long before the end of the millennium. There is no mention of some great battle at the end of that time either, God simply destroys them with fire when they surround the camp of the saints. Then it talks of how the nations will be awed and give Him glory when they see this. The thing is all the earth is burned and made new, so where would you think those nations would be? Also, who cares about a shaking in Israel when the world is gone and made new? How much shaking is involved in burning to a crisp some rebels that surround the camp of saints? Then God mentions how it was prophesied that nations would come against Israel in the end. That is about the Tribulation time. The phrase 'latter days' is also a clue about when. I also do not see how people who have lived under the direct rule of God and His people for many many centuries would think they had any hope whatsoever of leaving the camp of the saints with great booty! Their best hope would almost certainly be that they thought they might kill them before their little suicide mission ended!

You don't believe Satan could mislead someone? Who do you thick gave Gog the evil thought to Invade Israel as written by Ezekiel?

 

[dad]

You don't believe Satan could mislead someone? Who do you thick gave Gog the evil thought to Invade Israel as written by Ezekiel?

You got that out of all the things I listed? And still you totally misrepresent what I said!

 

[shilohsfoal]

You got that out of all the things I listed? And still you totally misrepresent what I said!

You misrepresent what God says.
Gog in Revelation is Gog in Ezekiel.
God is not WRONG on this. You are.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

WRONG LOLOLOL

Bringing the dead back to life is called the resurection. It's when the dead bodies in Israel are raised and God breaths life back into those dead bodies. It was for this cause Joseph wanted his dried bones carried back into the promised land. So he could be resurrected with Abraham Issacc and Jacob.

Ezekiel 37:6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh grow upon you and cover you with skin. I will put breath within you so that you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.'"

In a normal conversation I would agree with you! but as this is a prophecy connected to 38&39 it is a prophecy of the nation coming back to life and God calling them back to their land! This took place in 1947-48 when Israel lived again and was born in a day! The russian invasion is to take place before the tirbulation.

 

[dad]

You misrepresent what God says.
Gog in Revelation is Gog in Ezekiel.
God is not WRONG on this. You are.

You are not God and your opinion is your own actually. Did I say God was wrong?? Why say things that are not true in any way? So I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying that there can and is only one battle involving Gog? or..?

 

[shilohsfoal]

In a normal conversation I would agree with you! but as this is a prophecy connected to 38&39 it is a prophecy of the nation coming back to life and God calling them back to their land! This took place in 1947-48 when Israel lived again and was born in a day! The russian invasion is to take place before the tirbulation.

You believe alot of blind people following after a beast is the resurection of Israel.
And no, Gog will not be invading Israel for more than 1000 years from now. The next war to hit Israel will be the nations taking Jerusalem from those unbelieving jews, raping thier women and leading them away in captivity.

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.