The Light
Well-Known Member
It's seems that you are in the business of solving the problems that the scripture seems to present by making things up. Instead of that, why don't you just accept what is written. It's that simple.
Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?
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The question is what has one to do with the other? The Beverly Hillbillies lived on a mountain. People in the Rockies live on mountains...etc. So?
Right, and...?
What is the point in any of that?
Add that to the list of things that could impact earth. Woulda coulda shoulda.
Baloney
No, you just have not had the sense to know you were already defeated.
Why pretend you have anything that did so?? There are lots of verses about falseness.
No. What seal that was opened before the sixth seal said Jesus was here on earth doing anything??
So John was taken up and saw the past where Jesus opened seals? I see nothing at all that says anything was in the past when John went up to heaven. In case any lurker has any doubt let's settle that once and for all. We are told that what John was to see when he went up was....future!!
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
No, the seals do nothing, one day, here or the next world you will learn that fact. The 6th Seal IS the Darkness seen in the 4th Trump as is the Darkness seen in Joel 2:31, God's utterings do not depend on you or me understanding them to be truths.
So, the 144,000 are Sealed BEFORE the Judgments fall via the 7 Trumps, or just before the Day of the Lord which...........BEGINS.........with the first Trump/Asteroid/Mountain cast into the Sea. Once you finally realize God's Wrath begins with the Trumps it may all become very clear.
UNTIL THEN.......................
The Two-witnesses have Glorious bodies, they were in he transfiguration with Jesus.
There are a lot of Christians who espouse to understand Eschatology but who don't. I don't image anything, you are just unlearned on thee-se things. I can destroy your understanding by proving that numbers has significant parts in Prophecy, but you would just deny the facts anyway.
Because in so espousing this you are basically saying God's use of numbers, which I say is a fact, is a lie when any nominal person with bible knowledge knows God used numbers, google it and you will see hundreds of articles of how God uses numbers via the bible, ever try that? I doubt it. People who think they know it never study to find themselves approved.
So, the first clue should be God saying he has saved Himself 7000 men, but then saying its 144,000 later on in the bible, so which is it? Did God lie? No, both mean COMPLETENESS. You not understanding that if God chose PERFECT NUMBERS like 7000 or 144,000 would mean that God Himself is designating who gets saved, and that is a NO NO with God, we determine who gets saved as human beings by our own FAITH (let each man work out his own salvation in fear and trembling) in Jesus, with you that would all be null and void, because God is only choosing PERFECT NUMBERS !! And you do not even get that God's own essence would be voided and violated if He choose like that !! Not understanding this is nonsensical tbh. If ANYONE doesn't understand this, then they must agree with Calvinism and predestinatoon !!
Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
SEE THAT? 10 DAYS..........Means for the Complete Church Age, no one is telling a Church they will have trouble for 10 days !!
Rev. 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
SEE THAT? It means God SEES ALL and is EVERYWHERE......
7 and 10 means Completeness. You not getting it is on you !! You can act like everyone else is ignorant and naive, you are the one that doesn't see the obvious. I have never met a person with knowledge about bible Prophecy who doesn't understand how God uses numbers. And I am supposed to listen to you on Bible Prophecy?
Three. Thus equals God's Trinity.
Four and ten. Can be used to signify totality. There are ten fingers and ten toes, the total number of digits found on humans, thus our Base 10 numerical system.
Six. This is the number of man.
Seven. Can be used to signify "perfection" or "completeness". It may have been inspired from the fact that the primary lunar phases are roughly 7 days (7.4) each. Examples include the seven days of creation and so seven days that make up a week, and the seven lamps on the Temple Menorah. One variation on the use of seven is the use of the number six, used as a final hallmark in a series leading to a seven (e.g. mankind is created on the sixth day in Genesis, out of the seven days of creation). Sometimes, it is used to refer to a value falling short of a seven. For example, the number of the beast is 666 which represents its evil and having fallen short of the divinely perfect number of seven. Men fell short of God's intention.
Eight. Is used to refer to a "new life," "resurrection," or a new beginning. There are eight people on Noah's ark (2 Pet. 2:5), circumcision takes place on the eighth day (Gen. 17:12), Jesus rose from the dead on the eighth day, the eight thousandth year represents the end (2 Enoch 33.
Twelve. Reflects the 12 lunar months in a lunar year and refers to completeness, fulness and is often associated with the people of God. There are twelve tribes of Israel and Jesus made the decision to have twelve apostles.
These numbers are throughout the bible and point unto understandings you simply seem unable to understand in full. So, whilst you are tryin to infer that I make things up, you are you oblivious unto facts. So, continue to live in your own understandings which are incorrect in nature.
Never in my life have I seen people who refuse facts when presented unto them in undeniable presentations. Is it 7000 or 144,000 ? Or are they the exact same as in 7 x 10 x 10 x 10 and 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10. You not understanding that God will not give his future plans away to Satan by saying there will be 5,128,392 people who repent doesn't mean the 144, 000 doesn't meant just that number, or what ever number it is. The Jews understood how God used these numbers, you do not. But you think you do. Even if a guy is correct on 90 percent of things, when he refuses to learn the other 10 percent he's not worthy of a calling of Prophetic Proclamations/Understandings because we need to always be correct.
When you get to heaven, if that be the case (we are not to say who will and wont enter Heaven, that is God's alone) then you will understand you were wrong. That is all that matters to me, my testimony is true.
That's it? Your point is that unrelated events in different parts of the bible will all happen in the last seven years, but that they all use the word mountain?
Looking at Eze, and the timing of that invasion, the question arises, why would the leader of the world allow several nations to move against Israel? If this is, as you say, after the middle of the seven years when he breaks the covenant, we also have the issue of the clean up. They will burn the weapons for seven years after that. That would mean that they are still burning weapons several years after Jesus returns. In the battle of Armageddon right at the time of Jesus returning, there is blood up to your chin in some places in that whole area. It does seem unreal that people there at this time would still be burning the weapons of war there through all that!
Another thing brings into question the timing as being after the abomination of desolation is this
Ezekiel 38:23
Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord
I am not sure that really sounds like a description of the very last days in the world.
I think you should say something like 'I think that maybe that war is after the abomination is placed'. Not, 'that is after'.
Well, most people consider that the guy riding the white horse is the beast. As soon as Jesus opens a seal, this guy rides. That seems like something to me. That is a key feature of that last seven years, the beast.
The 6th Seal IS the Darkness seen in the 4th Trump as is the Darkness seen in Joel 2:31[/QUOTE]
There is darkness involved in the sixth seal. There are a lot of other things as well. Not sure why you say the darkness 'is' the sixth seal. Perhaps you mean there is darkness involved in the events of the sixth seal?
Chapter 7 says AFTER these things, which are the first six seals, then the 144,000 are sealed. How do you deal with that?
Why would we discount the horsemen as wrath also? Why limit it just to another part of the seven years? All are terrible. It gets worse and worse till the end. We already see that in the seals many people have been killed by the beast. How is that not part of the time of wrath? We see a quarter of the world's people killed. How would that not be included? We see worldwide famine such as never seen before. How is that not a part of the wrath of the last seven years?
You thought that people with glorious bodies could be killed? We are not told who they are. We are told they were killed and had their dead bodies lie out in the street and were not given the dignity of burial. If I saw a dead decaying body in the street, I would not consider that glorious at all. Are you suggesting they really were not dead, but it was some sort of con job?
I already said it is obvious that numbers have significance. It is also obvious that God uses actual numbers that should not be dismissed by someone thinking that some hidden significance has made the numbers meaningless or totally false and unreal.
We do not know the number of people that God considered to have not bowed the knee in Elijah's day. You cannot say that it had to be more. Maybe more people were in some way bowing the knee than you thought. You can't use your speculation based on nothing at all to wave away a specific number given a dozen times!
Speculation. For all I know in the end time, there could be a 10 day holding time before people got beheaded! In other words we don't know. Trying to spiritualize it away as some church age is completely silly.
We know that already. What could be new is that He may use certain spirits in doing so! Whatever the case you do not get to wave it all away. Just admit you don't understand it.
Great, and..so? Does this mean if I buy three bikes they are really six red motorcycles with flat tires and four broken spokes??
etc
I can say who will enter heaven. All who believe in Jesus. That does not help your number game.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Who said they were unrelated?
Maybe because they are related?
You think the whole world after the antichrist breaks his covenant is going to give him full power? Remember his 10 nations confederacy is losely bound.
Actually the is the last day of tribulation, when the AGE of the gentile is completed.
Or I would say the truth
the war IS AFTER. Not maybe.
There is not going to be a war during the time of peace..
It takes more than using the same word in different books to make them related in prophetic detail
I think he had power before he did that. The dragon gave him his power and authority, not the people.
Declaring a battle to be on the last day of the seven years means nothing. Prove it. Firstly, it would have to be the battle of Armageddon to fit that claim. The battle of Armageddon in not just about several powers north of Israel.
You would need to support that claim
In Eze it is not Gog and company that are at peace. They attack Israel who is dwelling safely.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Nevertheless Israel is who dwells in safety when that attack comes, not the world. No sense arguing when you could not be correct.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Can you really be that ignorant about the meaning of the word PROPHECY?
The Psalms 22 Chapter which God wrote through king David is about Christ's crucifixion, and it was written about a 1,000 years PRIOR to it happening! THAT is what PROPHECY is about. Likewise, the Zechariah 13 Chapter is showing, PROPHECY for the END.
Zech 13
1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
When will the above events happen? ONLY AFTER Christ's future return! That "fountain" is yet to be found in the holy land. That is for the time of Christ's future Millennial reign. Only then will Jerusalem and its people be cleansed of sin, although the rebellious among them will still stand in judgment throughout the 1,000 years. So already Zechariah 13 is showing future events.
3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, 'Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD': and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
After Christ's future return and start of His reign, there won't be any need for further prophecy. That is when prophecy will be shut off, for all will see Christ Jesus and know The LORD, all knees bowing.
6 And one shall say unto him, 'What are these wounds in thine hands?' Then he shall answer, 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.'
What's that above event about in verse 6? It's about the wound that Christ Jesus suffered by His friends (i.e., His kin, the Jews that had Him crucified).
7 'Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow', saith the LORD of hosts: 'smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.'
As I have already shown, Jesus quoted the above part in bold just prior to His being delivered up to be crucified.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
That is about the END. Two parts at the END will be cut off and subject to the "second death" of Revelation 20. But the third will be left, and be purified as per the next verse...
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, 'It is My people': and they shall say, 'The LORD is my God.'
KJV
In 1 Corinthians 3, Apostle Paul revealed that each persons works will be tried by fire. This testing by fire was an idea going all the back from Psalms 66 too, and is used by Christ's Apostles, even in 1 Peter 1.
Rev 3:18-19
18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
No, that's just an assumption you are making while DISREGARDING OTHER SCRIPTURE ABOUT HIS COMING, like Zechariah 14 which shows He brings all the saints with Him when His feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives!
So just HOW does He and His saints get to earth, when His feet touch down, especially if He hangs in the clouds?
Zech 14:1-5
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
The "day of the LORD" means the LAST DAY of this present world.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
The nations are GATHERED AROUND JERUSALEM FIRST.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And THEN... Jesus' coming in the clouds back to earth, to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from, CAUSES the defeat of those armies around Jerusalem...
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
That 'sudden destruction' will happen WHEN JESUS' FEET TOUCH DOWN UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES! That is the "sudden destruction" of God's cup of wrath which Paul pointed to in 1 Thessalonians 5:9. That is LAST DAY timing.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV
So now Zechariah 14 does not exist in YOUR Bible version.
The Acts 1 Scripture is another witness to Jesus literally returning to earth upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You haven't been able to disprove anything... I've shown from Scripture, which means you are telling a LIE, and being a hypocrite.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The Light
Well-Known Member
Davy, the verses you are posting occur at the end of Gods wrath at the 7th trumpet or the 7th vial which are the same timeframe.
They have absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, after the tribulation when He remains in the clouds. From the clouds to heaven for the marriage supper. THEN Jesus returns to earth at the end of Wrath and sets His feet on the mount of Olives.
The tribulation and the wrath of God do not occur in the same timeframe.
ewq1938
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He doesn't remain in the clouds, he descends to fight at Armageddon, still in the air.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.
It certainly appears that the 144,000 are sealed after the coming of Jesus, after the tribulation, after the 6th seal. Is that truly the case? Get your big boy logic pants on.
Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation as marked by the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars.
Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Then we jump to Rev 7 and see that the 144,000 are sealed.
Rev 7
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
We also see the great multitude in heaven in Rev 7.
Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Jesus has come for the harvest and the gathering has occurred that happens just before the day of the Lord, which begins with the wrath of God.
2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
So everything is laid out perfectly. Now let's toss in the verse that throws smoke on the situation.
Rev 9
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
This makes it appear that those 144,000 are going THROUGH the wrath of God because they have been sealed. But do they? Let's jump to the end of the wrath of God.
Rev 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever........................
.............
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The 7th angel sounds and the wrath of God is over. The dead are judged and rewards are given. WRATH IS OVER, IT IS FINISHED. DONE, COMPLETE.
Now we are at Rev 12 which shows the dragon attempting to kill the Christ child and then tells of the woman Israel in a place of protection. Then the dragon goes after the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. This is happening during the tribulation. WE ARE BACK IN THE 1ST 6 SEALS.
Rev 13 tells us about the beasts. We are still in the seals.
Rev 14 tells of the 144,000 being redeemed from the earth and being the first fruits of the second harvest.
Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Out of Room. Have to continue on another post.
I understand the answer to your question, and I will attempt to explain it, but you'll need your big boy logic pants to understand it.
It certainly appears that the 144,000 are sealed after the coming of Jesus, after the tribulation, after the 6th seal. Is that truly the case? Get your big boy logic pants on.
Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation as marked by the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars.
Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Then we jump to Rev 7 and see that the 144,000 are sealed.
Rev 7
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
We also see the great multitude in heaven in Rev 7.
Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Jesus has come for the harvest and the gathering has occurred that happens just before the day of the Lord, which begins with the wrath of God.
2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
So everything is laid out perfectly. Now let's toss in the verse that throws smoke on the situation.
Rev 9
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
This makes it appear that those 144,000 are going THROUGH the wrath of God because they have been sealed. But do they? Let's jump to the end of the wrath of God.
Rev 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever........................
.............
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The 7th angel sounds and the wrath of God is over. The dead are judged and rewards are given. WRATH IS OVER, IT IS FINISHED. DONE, COMPLETE.
Now we are at Rev 12 which shows the dragon attempting to kill the Christ child and then tells of the woman Israel in a place of protection. Then the dragon goes after the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. This is happening during the tribulation. WE ARE BACK IN THE 1ST 6 SEALS.
Rev 13 tells us about the beasts. We are still in the seals.
Rev 14 tells of the 144,000 being redeemed from the earth and being the first fruits of the second harvest.
Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Out of Room. Have to continue on another post.
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