Bible alone!
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i was asking truther and others
I think we are both in the tradition of nicea
Christ is a Divine person
The trinity is true revelation of God
Jesus is our savior
But Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
And
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
Extends to the truth and the church
Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
I was referring to lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Jesus is savior so Jesus is divine!
Jesus is savior so Jesus is divine!
1st to be born of creation...
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1st to die of creation....
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Resurrected before Lazarus etc...
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
God winessed all of this before the creation of the world.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
nicea??? this is an abbreviation for 'Nice to see ya'
Since Christ is the Elohim Son and CHIEF APOSTLE and ETERNAL HIGH PRIEST and BOTH the ALPHA and OMEGA
You do not need to rely and place your trust in man = place your COMPLETE faith/trust and love in Christ who alone can save us.
to reject the church or her apostolic teaching is to reject Christ who founded her and commanded her to teach all nations Matt 28:19
trust in man? No
In the apostolic tradition commanded by Christ yes!
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!
Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Prove it from scripture - the entire scripture and not isolated - half verses that leave out the WHOLE TRUTH
I did.
I told you that Jesus was the firstborn of creation, the 1st to die of creation and the 1st to resurrect of creation.
This is exactly why he has preeminence.
Now you know what the biblical term of preeminence is.
Not hopeful preeminence, but LITERAL preeminence.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
AGREE = The TRUE church is HIS Body - not made with hands
LISTEN to the HOLY SPIRIT = Acts ch7
However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
Has My hand not made all these things?’
DO NOT be like this = “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You completely misunderstand and pervert the truth as to "Jesus is the firstborn of creation"
LISTEN and Learn = In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
No you don't get it...
First.......born.
Do you know what a first born is?
It is someone who is born first.
Preeminence is defined in the verse as being born first...
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Now, with that in mind, you must understand that God shined His light THROUGH His firstborn.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your currently blind in your spirit even though the Scripture is in front of you: the firstborn from the dead
Which denotes he resurrected before Lazarus.
This is why He told Lazarus' folks that "I am the resurrection", then resurrected him from the dead.
Jesus died and resurrected prior to Lazarus, giving him preeminence over death.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
100% Complete false doctrine and outright lie = "Jesus actually resurrected before the world was made"
Not one scripture will even acknowledge your error - not one.
This TRUTH rejects your lie = "God is not a man that HE should lie, NEITHER the son of man that HE should repent......"
“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" Numbers 23:19
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