HERESY?

[Pierac]

Quote me specifically.
My claim.
And much worse than what, exactly.

YOU CLAIM the God of Universe became His creation! You claim God became a MAN

Did you not read my post... On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated you have joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on you as you sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that you could be guilty of this very same thing? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around. It would be more appropriate to put this contrast in starker terms. The defining characteristic of the Creator God is his absolute holiness. God is utterly different from and so utterly transcendent over His creation that any confusion is forbidden!

I claim Jesus is God's commissioned Agent...

A Man appointed by God to be His representative on Earth like Moses... (Deut.18:15) A Man that God would perform miracles through so people would believe what He said was true!

NASB Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

Just like Jesus taught....

Net Bible Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you, I do not speak on my own initiative, but the Father residing in me performs his miraculous deeds.

NASB Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Net Bible Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken from my own authority, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak.

Does Jesus sound like a God in the flesh or does he sound like a Man chosen/used of God ???

 

[GodsGrace]

If you read what Paul says, the reason is Eve was deceived by the Serpent in Eden, and Adam was not deceived by the Serpent.
So God's judgement comes down and God says
16 To the woman He said:

“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

So the woman according to God's judgment on her is not to rule, as in have authority over men.
If a woman desires to be a pastor and teach men, she is in direct conflict with God's judgement decision.
And no, this has not been taken away for those in Christ, Paul says it is still in effect. And of course so is death for example.

A woman teaching scripture to men is being disobedient to the command of God.

Been away a few days, can't remember if I've answered this already. Sorry if it's a duplicate response.

Eve was deceived by satan.
Adam was not deceived...I agree.
What Adam did was actually much much worse and what caused all of the human race to fall
because it was Adam that was the federal headship of the human race.

Also, we should remember that God made the Edenic Covenant with Adam...not with Eve.
For the very reason you state....it is man that is to be the head.

Now, I happen to agree that the man should be the head of his family.
I'll tell you what the problem is with this however.

The problem is that we still have the sin nature and we CANNOT follow the laws of God perfectly.

So...some men are not able to be the head.
Women do not really respect men that cannot be.
Sometimes when men CAN be the head...pride and authority go to his head and this causes problems in families.
Another problem is that men have given in to the female movement of liberation.
Actually, women are more enslaved today than they ever were...but some feel more liberated so I guess the extra work might be worth this feeling of freedom -

So, men are different these days.
Can't go back...
What does the bible say we should do about this?

Women have a different temperment:
I would not want a woman pastor/priest.
I would never confess to a woman priest (catholicism).
And I prefer men teachers, although I think women are fine too..depending.

 

[GodsGrace]

A heretical teaching is mass commentary derived.

It usually take re-explaining a literal verse.

The less opinions, the less lies we tell.

Sola scriptura.

So how is it sola scriptura when we all have our own opinions??

This was supposed to unite and instead it separated.
However, I do believe the reformation was necessary.

 

[Pierac]

You can write all you want but the verse still indicates the Trinity...“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)

Isa 9:7...Of the increase of [the Messiah's] government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over [Jesus'] kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.

Strong's - Almighty: g3841 - παντοκράτωρ - pantokratōr

"almighty, or ruler of all" (pas, "all," krateo, "to hold, or to have strength"), is used of God only, and is found, in the Epistles, only in 2Cr 6:18, where the title is suggestive in connection with the context; elsewhere only in the Apocalypse, nine times. In one place, Rev 19:6, the AV has "omnipotent;" RV, "(the Lord our God,) the Almighty." The word is introduced in the Sept. as a translation of "Lord (or God) of hosts," e.g., Jer 5:14 and Amo 4:13.​

Rev 1:4...John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,

Rev 1:8..."I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. {It's the "I am."}

Rev 21:6...And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.

Rev 22:13...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."​

Rev 4:8...And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

אֵל גִּבּוֺר - the Messiah Isaiah 9:5;
אֵל גִּבּוֺר - a mighty hero. [The mighty God: Christ is spoken of.] Isa. 9:5; 10:21;​

Isaiah 10:21... "A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God."

Nice verses... But have nothing to do with Jesus being GOD!

Let's take a Bible test... What does the Bible actually say about Jesus... not some verse you think is about Jesus that can be twisted into false perceptions... What does scripture teach about the actual JESUS... not some adjective you think describe him! Remember Scripture does not contradict!!!

Let's use actual scripture that uses Jesus Name or words spoken from Jesus.

What is Jesus according to this verse?

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1. GOD in the Flesh

2. A Man appointed by God

answer = 2

Who performed the miracles and wonders?

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1 Jesus

2 The God of Jesus

answer = 2

Who anointed Jesus ?

Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the holy Spirit and power.

1. Jesus anointed Himself.

2. God anointed Jesus.

answer = 2

Where did Jesus get his knowledge?

Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him...

1. Jesus is God and needs no revelation

2. God gave Jesus His revelation

answer = 2

Whom did God appoint?

Acts 17:31 – "God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now He demands that all people everywhere repent because He has established a day on which He will judge the world with justice through a MAN He has appointed, and He has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead.

1. Himself
2. A Man

Answer = 2

You getting the hang of it yet? The correct BIBLICAL ANSWER is 2 on all the questions... I mean this is plain English...

So... If Jesus did not consider himself to be God, why should we? Jesus always pointed us to the one who is greater than he, The God of Abraham. Here is probably the simplest verse in the whole Bible on this matter.

Mark 10:18 – "Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you have trouble with this one, I do not think there is much else I can say. Does this sound to you like Jesus believes himself to be God?

1. Yes

2. No

answer = 2

Did you pass the test?

 

[Moriah's Song]

Did you pass the test?

I didn't take the test because you are not qualified to be my teacher.

 

[Jim B]

So how is it sola scriptura when we all have our own opinions??

This was supposed to unite and instead it separated.
However, I do believe the reformation was necessary.

Our opinions have absolutely no bearing on sola scriptura. Romans 3:4, "Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

 

[Taken]

YOU CLAIM the God of Universe became His creation! You claim God became a MAN

Utterly FALSE.
I see you did not quote me!

 

[GodsGrace]

Our opinions have absolutely no bearing on sola scriptura. Romans 3:4, "Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

I don't agree that these are our private beliefs.

WHERE do these beliefs come from if not from the N.T.?

And churches (denominations) also teach different doctrine.
Examples:
Some believe baptism saves.
Some believe it is not necessary for salvation.

Some believe in eternal security.
Some do not.

Some believe God chooses who will be saved or damned.
Some do not.

Some believe in worshipping on the 7th day.
Some do not.

and on it goes...
It's a problem for Christianity, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

An example would be the Jehovah’s Witnesses today who do not believe Jesus is God and they reject human beings as having an immortal soul. Mormonism fits the same category as heresy.

Actual "Mormon" here. The information about "Mormonism" here isn't accurate. If anyone cares I'm happy to elaborate.

 

[Enoch111]

The information about "Mormonism" here isn't accurate.

Every time Mormon sources -- ACTUAL MORMON SOURCES -- have been quoted to show their false and bizarre doctrines, you have claimed that that is "not accurate". How can it not be accurate when it is a direct quote? Here's a direct quote from the History of the Church regarding polygamy:

Prepare Your Hearts for Polygamy Commandment – July 1843
History of the Church 5:500-501; “Revelation on the Eternity of the Marriage Covenant, including the Plurality of Wives. Given through Joseph, the Seer, in Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, July 11th, 1843, Verily thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I the Lord justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David, and Solomon my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines… Therefore prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same; for, behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned…and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God…Abraham received promises concerning his seed and of the fruit of his loins,—from whose loins ye are—viz., my servant Joseph,—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed out of the world, they should continue…Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law, and ye shall be saved…”
Polygamy Quotes Joseph Smith Jr

Early Plural Marriage
Joseph Smith organized the Church of Christ (now The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) on April 6, 1830. Evidently, by the end of the following year, he had learned that polygamy could be acceptable to God. At that time, he indicated in conversations with associates that he was not then permitted to practice it.

In Kirtland, Ohio, in the 1830s—probably 1835 or early 1836—he experienced his first brief plural relationship with Fanny Alger, who was providing domestic help in the Smith household.

The Prophet slowly introduced plural marriage to select members beginning in late 1840. Joseph Smith’s first polygamous marriage in Nauvoo occurred on April 5, 1841.

During the next seventeen months, Joseph was sealed to more than a dozen plural wives. A few other men and women were also invited to participate in the practice, although he never openly taught the principle.

By the end of August 1842, Joseph Smith discontinued plural marriages for a period of five months, undoubtedly due to the influences of dissenter John C. Bennett. The Prophet resumed marrying polygamously in February of 1843. He was sealed to more than a dozen plural spouses during the next ten months—bringing the total to more than thirty.
Mormon Polygamy Timeline - Joseph Smith's Polygamy

 

[Truther]

So how is it sola scriptura when we all have our own opinions??

This was supposed to unite and instead it separated.
However, I do believe the reformation was necessary.

If I teach someone to READ their Bible, instead of teaching someone to INTERPRET their Bible, I am doing them justice and getting rid of commentary about their Bible.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Every time Mormon sources -- ACTUAL MORMON SOURCES -- have been quoted to show their false and bizarre doctrines, you have claimed that that is "not accurate". How can it not be accurate when it is a direct quote?

And the devil directly quotes scripture to "prove" his points.
Quoting does not equate to understanding, as I've explained many many times. And if anyone wants to know what "Mormon" believes, then they should actually ask one, not "Catholic.com" rendition of things.

 

[Behold]

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?
.

All heretics believe you can lose your salvation.

And why this is the only real proof, is because.........if you do not believe that God, through the blood of Christ, IS YOUR SALVATiON< then you do not understand the Cross of Christ.
So, if you can't understand that, then you are :

1.) Not born again

2. ) Born again but "fallen from Grace".

Its like this reader.......If you are chasing your own salvation, and this is proven by teaching that YOU can LOSE IT.....then you do not Trust in Christ.
As you can't TRUST IN CHRIST and then Believe you can lose your salvation.

If you trust in Christ to keep you saved, then you have real faith in Christ.
If you do not believe that Christ keeps you saved, then you are trying to do things other then Trust in Christ to try to not lose your salvation, which proves you are a CROSS DENYING Heretic.

Listen, you ether agree with the Cross, or you do not.
If you agree with it, then you give Christ on the Cross all the credit due Him for saving you, and keeping you saved.

If you do not, then you are rejecting the Cross, and the Christ on it, as you run around trying to keep yourself saved.

= Fallen from Grace.

= A heretic.

 

[Cooper]

All heretics believe you can lose your salvation.

And why this is the only real proof, is because.........if you do not believe that God, through the blood of Christ, IS YOUR SALVATiON< then you do not understand the Cross of Christ.
So, if you can't understand that, then you are :

1.) Not born again

2. ) Born again but "fallen from Grace".

Its like this reader.......If you are chasing your own salvation, and this is proven by teaching that YOU can LOSE IT.....then you do not Trust in Christ.
As you can't TRUST IN CHRIST and then Believe you can lose your salvation.

If you trust in Christ to keep you saved, then you have real faith in Christ.
If you do not believe that Christ keeps you saved, then you are trying to do things other then Trust in Christ to try to not lose your salvation, which proves you are a CROSS DENYING Heretic.

Listen, you ether agree with the Cross, or you do not.
If you agree with it, then you give Christ on the Cross all the credit due Him for saving you, and keeping you saved.

If you do not, then you are rejecting the Cross, and the Christ on it, as you run around trying to keep yourself saved.

= Fallen from Grace.

= A heretic.

What is your excuse for scriptures like Hebrews 6 and many others like it?

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
.

 

[Behold]

What is your excuse for scriptures like Hebrews 6 and many others like it?

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
.

How do i explain verses that are in the book written to the HEBREWS, vs..>"to the Church"?
And Paul is talking to Christ rejecting HEBREWS...(Jew), in those verses.

Later, if you will go to Acts 28, and read it...........you will find PAUL again.....doing the same thing in the last 10 verses, with these same Christ Hating Jews.....and this time, he tells them...>"SEE YA.....im taking the Gospel to the GENTILES>....= who will HEAR IT".

Now, notice..>"who will HEAR IT"........as "faith comes by HEARING".........so, these Christ Rejecting Jews you find in HEBREWS <. Chapter 6 and 10, were not "HEARING"........
In other words, they were REJECTING........and when you do, you "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", because to REJECT Jesus, is to "willfully sin", the sin that is unpardonable.

What you have in those verses, are Christ rejecting HEBREWS......who are literally committing the "unpardonable sin".

 

[Cooper]

How do i explain verses that are in the book written to the HEBREWS, vs..>"to the Church"?
And Paul is talking to Christ rejecting HEBREWS...(Jew), in those verses.

Later, if you will go to Acts 28, and read it...........you will find PAUL again.....doing the same thing in the last 10 verses, with these same Christ Hating Jews.....and this time, he tells them...>"SEE YA.....im taking the Gospel to the GENTILES>....= who will HEAR IT".

Now, notice..>"who will HEAR IT"........as "faith comes by HEARING".........so, these Christ Rejecting Jews you find in HEBREWS <. Chapter 6 and 10, were not "HEARING"........
In other words, they were REJECTING........and when you do, you "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", because to REJECT Jesus, is to "willfully sin", the sin that is unpardonable.

What you have in those verses, are Christ rejecting HEBREWS......who are literally committing the "unpardonable sin".

I rather think that applies to anyone who accepts Christ as their Saviour, and later, to quote you, "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", because to REJECT Jesus, is to "willfully sin", the sin that is unpardonable.

Because...the application remains a solemn warning to all who profess to "believe." +*Heb_12:2, Num_25:4 g. Mat_1:19 g. Mat_27:38-44, Mar_15:29-32, Luk_23:35-39, Col_2:15, Jud_1:7.
.

 

[Behold]

I rather think t
.

Your first mistake is this.....>"i think"

See that?......that is not the same as..>"true".

Here is sound advice for you......Never let your opinion be your God.

And what you are doing, is......you are evaluating the eternal sacrifice of Christ as WORTH LESS= than your mindset on any particular day..

"well, today im still saved, because Today my FAITH is good".
"Yesterday, tho.....it wasnt', but today, i got my salvation back because today i have better FAITH">

So, the problem there is, FAITH is not your savior.......GOD is your Savior.
He accepts your faith ONE TIME........to SAVE YOU THAT DAY, through the blood of Jesus.

Salvation is not what you do later.........Salvation is what God did for you on the DAY you were born again.

If you are only water baptized, and think you are born again, then you are not saved yet.
But if you are born again........then on THAT DAY you became a citizen of Heaven, and there you are..

"seated in Heavenly places IN CHRIST".....for as Long as God lives.

 

[Cooper]

Your first mistake is this.....>"i think"

See that?......that is not the same as..>"true".

Here is sound advice for you......Never let your opinion be your God.

And what you are doing, is......you are evaluating the eternal sacrifice of Christ as WORTH LESS= than your mindset on any particular day..

"well, today im still saved, because Today my FAITH is good".
"Yesterday, tho.....it wasnt', but today, i got my salvation back because today i have better FAITH">

So, the problem there is, FAITH is not your savior.......GOD is your Savior.
He accepts your faith ONE TIME........to SAVE YOU THAT DAY, through the blood of Jesus.

Salvation is not what you do later.........Salvation is what God did for you on the DAY you were born again.

If you are only water baptized, and think you are born again, then you are not saved yet.
But if you are born again........then on THAT DAY you became a citizen of Heaven, and there you are..

"seated in Heavenly places IN CHRIST".....for as Long as God lives.

I was being polite when I said "I rather think" but now I say for certain from the Word of God:-

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:20-21

The believer who sins IS OF THE DEVIL. He that committeth sin is of the devil (1Jn 3:8a)
.

 

[Behold]

The believer who sins IS OF THE DEVIL. He that committeth sin is of the devil (1Jn 3:8a)
.

Here is what i can say for certain.

You've sinned since you were saved., and have confessed them.
If you deny this, then you just lied, knowingly, Cooper.,.. on this forum.
So, by your own admission that "sin", makes you of the Devil, and you have sinned, since you were saved.

You now have a problem.

My advice.....dont post and say you have not sinned since you were saved... as that would be another lie, and lies are sin.
Dont do that.

What to do now, is realize something...

This... = On the Day God saves a person......>HE knows of all the SIN they will commit after He saves them that day.
And yet, He saves them anyway, knowing they will sin later.
So, why does God save you, knowing you will sin later?

Its because God's blood, is going to forgive all you sin, as if you have never sinned, and then your born again Spirit will become a part of God's Spirit as 'ONE with GOD".....were no sin exists.

See, God knows that the "one time eternal sacrifice of Jesus's blood and death".....is this...."where sin abounds, Grace MORE abounds"
This means......The Blood of Jesus, and the Death of Christ.....this Sacrifice that has been applied to you as "the Gift of Salvation"...is GREATER, always, than your sin.
Always.

The Sacrifice of God as Christ on The Cross, is for the entire sin of the World.
So, it can handle yours, reader.
Believe it, and rejoice in the Knowledge of your salvation.

 

[Keiw]

Not sure where this should be...
the study of God seemed appropriate (maybe).

Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?

IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

Thanks.

The world needs to face facts-God had a single religion in the OT. Jesus started a single religion-They accomplish this 100%-1Cor 1:10--Unity of thought( all of Gods truth) no division. Because the true God requires one to serve him in spirit and truth-John 4:22-24