The Pre-Trib Rapture

[marks]

Ezekiel 2:9-10 KJV
9) And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10) And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.

Revelation 5:1 KJV
1) And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The same?

Much love!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I'm saying, the "twinkling of an eye" is in reference to the transformation of the living.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Much love!

People overcomplicate this tbh. Paul is telling us the Dead will be raised without any corruption, which means without any sin flesh, if we read the verses in like 40-50 we can understand this, the Dead are raised as spirit men, flesh and blood can not enter heaven.

So, likewise those of us who are alive must be CHANGED....But why? Because flesh and blood can not enter heaven. So, we basically die, and leave our flesh behind, and our spirit man is being called to go with Jesus, just like the dead spirits who leave the grave (or wherever they are at, seems its called Paradise in the earth somewhere).

The corruptible (Sin Flesh) must put on incorruption (spirit man made whole in Christ).

And by the way, the way reason Paul says the dead are raised first is he is trying to reassure the Corinthians that their loved ones are not going to be left behind. The truth is, it all happens at the sane time, if I walk into a grocery store with my wife and my foot enters the door first did we go in together or was I first? Paul, as a Pastor in a letter (not a THUS SAITH THE Lord Prophet) is trying to comfort his flock their loved ones will not be left when the Rapture happens.

How can we say a Blink of an eye is nit the exact same time? LOL

 

[marks]

Ezekiel 9:3-5 KJV
3) And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
4) And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5) And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

Revelation 7:1-3 KJV
1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

[farouk]

Ezekiel 2:9-10 KJV
9) And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10) And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.

Revelation 5:1 KJV
1) And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The same?

Much love!

Interesting that Malachi 3.16 has 'a book of remembrance...for them that feared the LORD and that thought upon His Name'.....

 

[marks]

People overcomplicate this tbh. Paul is telling us the Dead will be raised without any corruption, which means without any sin flesh, if we read the verses in like 40-50 we can understand this, the Dead are raised as spirit men, flesh and blood can not enter heaven.

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Much love!

Great verses there...!

 

[marks]

People overcomplicate this tbh. Paul is telling us the Dead will be raised without any corruption, which means without any sin flesh, if we read the verses in like 40-50 we can understand this, the Dead are raised as spirit men, flesh and blood can not enter heaven.

So, likewise those of us who are alive must be CHANGED....But why? Because flesh and blood can not enter heaven. So, we basically die, and leave our flesh behind, and our spirit man is being called to go with Jesus, just like the dead spirits who leave the grave (or wherever they are at, seems its called Paradise in the earth somewhere).

The corruptible (Sin Flesh) must put on incorruption (spirit man made whole in Christ).

And by the way, the way reason Paul says the dead are raised first is he is trying to reassure the Corinthians that their loved ones are not going to be left behind. The truth is, it all happens at the sane time, if I walk into a grocery store with my wife and my foot enters the door first did we go in together or was I first? Paul, as a Pastor in a letter (not a THUS SAITH THE Lord Prophet) is trying to comfort his flock their loved ones will not be left when the Rapture happens.

How can we say a Blink of an eye is nit the exact same time? LOL

I'm just speaking towards the grammatical construction of the passage.

Much love!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Much love!

Yes, we will have a different Glorious Body in Heaven, it gets changed to a permanent body there. But our old body does not enter Heaven. Our flesh and blood can not enter heaven, its sin stained.

In John 20 Jesus told Mary touch me not, for I have not yet ascended unto the Father [to offer the Sacrifice]. Mary merely touching Jesus would have defiled the sacrificial offering unto the Father. No sin flesh can enter heaven.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Leaving our sin flesh on earth, traveling to Heaven as Spirit men, they changing into a new glorious body in Heaven is not contradictory at all to the verse you cited.

 

[marks]

Leaving our sin flesh on earth, traveling to Heaven as Spirit men, they changing into a new glorious body in Heaven is not contradictory at all to the verse you cited.

Actually, the Bible uses the word changed, transformed, not replaced.

Much love!

 

[marks]

In John 20 Jesus told Mary touch me not, for I have not yet ascended unto the Father [to offer the Sacrifice]. Mary merely touching Jesus would have defiled the sacrificial offering unto the Father. No sin flesh can enter heaven.

What do you base this on?

Concerning this part,

Matthew 28:9 KJV
9) And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

John 20:27 KJV
27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Jesus didn't seem to have an issue with people touching Him, from what I see.

This reminds me of Jesus and the lepers, touch them was forbidden, but Jesus touched them in healing them.

I don't know that Mary could have defiled Jesus.

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

"We' there refers to the (pilgrim) church. If we cross-reference with 1 Cor. 10.32 and mediate on the groups of people there, clearly it must be the church that is raptured.

Precious friend:

Please explain; I never heard The [GRACE] Church Of God, Which Is HIS Body
Of CHRIST, called the ("pilgrim") church before? Did you get that from "pilgrims progress"?

Also agree, The Body Of CHRIST, all should be "looking, watching, And Patiently
waiting" for our Blessed Hope, JESUS CHRIST, And Great GRACE Departure!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[farouk]

Precious friend:

Please explain; I never heard The [GRACE] Church Of God, Which Is HIS Body
Of CHRIST, called the ("pilgrim") church before? Did you get that from "pilgrims progress"?

Also agree, The Body Of CHRIST, all should be "looking, watching, And Patiently
waiting" for our Blessed Hope, JESUS CHRIST, And Great GRACE Departure!

GRACE And Peace...

There is a book called The Pilgrim Church by Broadbent; but more generally the pilgrim character of the remnant is seen in the OT (e.g., Malachi), and this character is carried over to the NT after Pentecost; those practising Acts 2.42 activities may be so described.

 

[marks]

Precious friend:

Please explain; I never heard The [GRACE] Church Of God, Which Is HIS Body
Of CHRIST, called the ("pilgrim") church before? Did you get that from "pilgrims progress"?

Also agree, The Body Of CHRIST, all should be "looking, watching, And Patiently
waiting" for our Blessed Hope, JESUS CHRIST, And Great GRACE Departure!

GRACE And Peace...

Hebrews 11:13 KJV
13) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Much love!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Actually, the Bible uses the word changed, transformed, not replaced.

Much love!

And it uses the words Flesh and Blood can't enter heaven, thus we have to learn how to use the whole word of God to interpret the bible.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

When scriptures clash we must resolve the conflict because God doesn't contradict Himself.

In Dan. 7:11 we are told the Beasts BODY is destroyed and he is KILLED.

In Rev. 19:20 we are told the Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell ALIVE.

What gives?

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Common sense prevails, we know God can't lie, He never contradicts Himself, we know Gabriel gave Daniel His words and God Himself gave John these words via Jesus Christ. So, this isn't Paul writing as a Pastor to a Church, this is real "Thus saith the Lord stuff" straight from God. So, even God can be misunderstood.

The facts are the Beast is killed. ALL MEN must die and then be Judged says the scriptures, so we know he must die else the scriptures are not true. So, why is the Beast said to be cast into hell ALIVE? Because we never die, we only sleep in the grave as Paul mentioned in this chapter here. Thus he is not aloud to sleep as the other wicked dead who are only judged after the 1000 year reign. He is cast ALIVE into hell, he is never allowed to rest, we NEVER DIE, we are eternal beings.

Likewise, the scriptures can't be wrong, only misunderstood. Flesh and blood can not enter heaven. If that makes you in error brother, so be it, learn from it and move on. Its OK to be in error, I have been many times. Our flesh will not enter heaven. Period.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

John 20:27 KJV
27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Jesus didn't seem to have an issue with people touching Him, from what I see.

This reminds me of Jesus and the lepers, touch them was forbidden, but Jesus touched them in healing them.

I don't know that Mary could have defiled Jesus.

Yes I know which means Jesus ascended to Heaven, offered the Sacrifice and brought back the gift of the Holy Spirit. Thus those Second Coming guys who think Jesus only comes to the earth twice don't even understand he was the Burning Bush, he was the Rock in the desert, the two comings are really meant to be Two Advents, the Meek Sacrificial Lamb and the Roaring Lion.

 

[marks]

Our flesh will not enter heaven.

Yes, this is correct, but Scritpurally speaking it is not replaced, it is transformed.

Clothed upon is another expression used to describe what happens.

2 Corinthians 5:4 KJV
4) For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.


Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes I know which means Jesus ascended to Heaven, offered the Sacrifice and brought back the gift of the Holy Spirit.

However, Jesus told Thomas to touch Him before He ascended to heaven.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

One of those famously misunderstood passages.

This was an indictment against the Jews of the day. You're to be taught like little babies learning their abc's, so that you will be so offended you will just fall into the trap.

Isaiah 28:8-13 KJV
8) For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
9) Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13) But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

What you are saying is that over the course of time, John had 7 different visions? Each one starting at the Cross and ending at the NHNE or an arbitrary time of your chosen personal interpretation?

John was shown seven different visions, he merely recorded them as he was shown them. Like a painting painted in front of Him, first the broad background strokes, then each getting more detailed and in focus.

 

[David H.]

The church was a mystery, revealed through Paul. The rapture of the church was a mystery revealed through Paul. The living transformation of
some was a mystery, revealed through Paul.

Did Jesus not know about the church and the rapture when he gave the Olivet discourse?