The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Brakelite]

I’ve been in enough discussions with SDA’s over the years and have read enough material from former SDA’s to know it is not nonsense. Here is a statement below that a SDA once made to me which further confirms my point:

“The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.”

What's wrong with that? Nowhere is he saying that works earn our salvation. What he said is 200% correct.

 

[Brakelite]

Of course I believe the scriptures. I just don’t believe the SDA gospel.

If the SDA church has its own gospel, I wouldn't believe it either. Curious that I've been an Adventist for 25 years, and never heard of this strange phenomenon called the SDA gospel.

 

[Brakelite]

I just told you what a 25 year long SDA believes is the gospel. What, you don't believe me? I could offer you links to literally hundreds of sermons, and SDA articles and publications and lectures from all over the planet teaching the same thing. Are we teaching and preaching the truth but secretly practicing something else?
Even the official Adventist web site will reveal the same. So, just to reiterate, here two examples of righteousness by faith teaching... The first from Ellen White, the second from yours truly...

 

[Brakelite]

I just told you what a 25 year long SDA believes is the gospel. What, you don't believe me? I could offer you links to literally hundreds of sermons, and SDA articles and publications and lectures from all over the planet teaching the same thing. Are we teaching and preaching the truth but secretly practicing something else?
Even the official Adventist web site will reveal the same. So, just to reiterate, here two examples of righteousness by faith teaching... The first from Ellen White, the second from yours truly...

No, SDAs lean toward an all powerful God Who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. It isn't about us and what we do. It's about Who God is and what He can do. That is true righteousness by faith. What faith in God's power says it is wrong to believe we can overcome sin?

Nonsense. What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ.”—The Faith I Live By, E G White p.109.

 

[mailmandan]

What's wrong with that? Nowhere is he saying that works earn our salvation. What he said is 200% correct.

If works contribute to obtaining salvation then there is merit on our part in accomplishing those works in order to receive eternal life. Either Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers and He is an ALL-sufficient Savior or else we must “add” our works to Christ’s finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us and He is an IN-sufficient Savior. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[mailmandan]

If the SDA church has its own gospel, I wouldn't believe it either. Curious that I've been an Adventist for 25 years, and never heard of this strange phenomenon called the SDA gospel.

You read the SDA gospel in post #1160 which equates to “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works” and you said that you agree with it 200%.

 

[Brakelite]

If works contribute to obtaining salvation then there is merit on our part in accomplishing those works in order to receive eternal life. Either Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers and He is an ALL-sufficient Savior or else we must “add” our works to Christ’s finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us and He is an IN-sufficient Savior. You can’t have it both ways.

You quoted...
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.”
Where in the above quote does it suggest that our own works assist in our salvation?

 

[GEN2REV]

So should I believe your theory or what the Bible clearly says?

You should believe that Jesus obeyed all the 10 Commandments of His Father because the Bible clearly says so.
John 15:10
You should believe that Jesus' disciples continued to obey the 10 Commandments after His death, including the 4th, because the Bible clearly says so.
Luke 23:55-56
You should believe that Paul, one of the greatest contributors to the New Testament, obeyed all of the 10 Commandments as a keeper of the Law because the Bible clearly says so.
Acts 21:24

 

[GEN2REV]

If works contribute to obtaining salvation then there is merit on our part in accomplishing those works in order to receive eternal life. Either Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers and He is an ALL-sufficient Savior or else we must “add” our works to Christ’s finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us and He is an IN-sufficient Savior. You can’t have it both ways.

Have you ever thought to consider that the assistance of the Holy Spirit in our obedience to the Commandments takes the works aspect out of it in our merit and puts the merit squarely upon Christ since we could not OBEY them without Him?

See? We're not earning anything. Christ is doing it for us when we trust in Him.

Sounds like the piece of the puzzle you've been missing; ... or purposely ignoring.

John 14:26

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

With SDA’s it’s about what THEY do. The gospel they preach culminates in “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.”

Jesus, Paul, John, and James all taught faith + works. The problem isn't that someone is teaching a "works-based" gospel. The problem is that you simply want a Christianity that allows you to sin with impunity. God didn't lower the standard for His own Son, so what makes you so special that He has to lower it for you?

Observing the Lord's Day is not disobeying God's Commandments but honoring Christ's resurrection while observing the Christian Sabbath.

The Bible is very clear that Jesus died around 3 p.m. Wednesday afternoon and that He was resurrected at the same exact time that Saturday, but the same "Christians" who claim they are honoring Christ's resurrection reject the very day He was actually resurrected on. Talk about irony. Where in the Bible did Christ ever command someone to celebrate His resurrection?

Obeying the commandments as the basis or means of either obtaining and/or maintaining salvation certainly is works salvation. It’s you who misunderstands.[/QUOTE[Jesus Himself stated in no uncertain terms that a person have to keep the 10 commandments if they want eternal life(Matt. 19:17). According to your logic, i guess people are supposed to believe that you know more than Christ about salvation, even though He is currently immortal and you are not.

The day of Christ's resurrection -- the first day of the week -- THE LORD'S DAY.

Funny, Mar. 2:27 shows Jesus saying He is Lord of the Sabbath.

"For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
"But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6
"For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.” Galatians 3:10
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18

Should I believe you, GEN2REV, or what God's Word clearly says?

Like other antinomians, you completely defeat your own argument by posting Rom. 7:6, even though Paul is clearly doing the opposite of teaching against commandment-keeping. Sin can only have dominion over someone if they disobey God's commandments as a way of life. Why else do you think John explicitly defines sin as violating God's commandments in 1 Jhn 3:4? Like other antinomians, you fail to realize the folly of arguing against commandment-keeping.

As Paul taught in Rom. 4:15, if God's commandments don't exist, then sin can't exist either. And if sin doesn't exist, then there isn't any need to believe in Christ at all since it completely erases His relevance as the sacrifice for sins. Do antinomians possess the capacity to understand that they're making pro-humanism arguments that are disguised as Christianity? I very much doubt it.

 

[mailmandan]

Have you ever thought to consider that the assistance of the Holy Spirit in our obedience to the Commandments takes the works aspect out of it in our merit and puts the merit squarely upon Christ since we could not OBEY them without Him?

See? We're not earning anything. Christ is doing it for us when we trust in Him.

Sounds like the piece of the puzzle you've been missing; ... or purposely ignoring.

John 14:26

“The Holy Spirit teaches you all things” (John 14:26) does not mean that Christ accomplishes all works through us while we passively sit by like robots and do nothing. Notice in 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 that Paul says “if anyone’s work which he has built on itendures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” So your saved by non meritorious works sugar coated double talk argument is bogus. It’s your puzzle that is missing critical pieces. Allow these verses to sink in (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

 

[mailmandan]

You quoted...
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.”
Where in the above quote does it suggest that our own works assist in our salvation?

If you can’t see it in that statement then you need a whole new set of bifocals.

 

[Enoch111]

The Bible is very clear that Jesus died around 3 p.m. Wednesday afternoon and that He was resurrected at the same exact time that Saturday, but the same "Christians" who claim they are honoring Christ's resurrection reject the very day He was actually resurrected on.

You have ZERO biblical evidence that Christ rose around 3 pm on Saturday (the Sabbath, a day of rest, when God rested from His creative work and Christ rested from His redemptive work).

But since the Bible shows that Christ fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits (Lev 23:10,11) in His resurrection (1 Cor 15:20), and that feast was always on "the morrow after the Sabbath" we can be 100% certain that Christ arose on the first day of the week. Probably after midnight and before early dawn, since He is also called "the Morning Star" (Rev 22:16).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Did Jesus die to save us from our sin or in our sin?

My 2 cents is from. It is called freedom from sin. Romans 6:6-7. And it is TAKE AWAY not merely COVER.

 

[GEN2REV]

“The Holy Spirit teaches you all things” (John 14:26) does not mean that Christ accomplishes all works through us while we passively sit by like robots and do nothing. Notice in 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 that Paul says “if anyone’s work which he has built on itendures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” So your saved by non meritorious works sugar coated double talk argument is bogus. It’s your puzzle that is missing critical pieces. Allow these verses to sink in (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

"...if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
Romans 8:13

What are the deeds of the body?

Sin.

And what is sin?

The breaking of the 10 Commandments.
1 John 3:4

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Children of God/Israel)
Romans 8:14

"... Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh (deeds of the body)."
Galatians 5:16
(Note: Interesting usage of the word 'fulfill' there in the KJV - it doesn't mean to 'complete' something nor to 'repeal' it at all - but to 'perform' something. Just as Jesus performed all of the 10 Commandments as an example to us with His lifetime - He did not repeal them at all.) John 15:10

"... if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under Law (because you are obeying the Commandments not to sin by way of the Holy Spirit)."

No merit for your accomplishments in obeying the Commandments necessary. All Glory to the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[Brakelite]

If you can’t see it in that statement then you need a whole new set of bifocals.

If that's all you've got to prove that adventists are teaching a false gospel, I would maintain your evidence is just as flimsy as the biblical evidence for a change in sacredness from the 7th day to the 1st.

 

[Brakelite]

No-one would, I hope, suggest that the second commandment was ever only applicable to Jews.
KJV Exodus 20:4-5
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

After all, in discussions with Catholics do we not all refer to this Commandment to warm them concerning statues and images in their churches and homes? Do we not then affirm the relevancy of the ten commandments to the Christian church? Especially when we start claiming that we are saved by grace, therefore the commandments have no relevance in the plan of redemption, we need to consider the last verse of that commandment...

KJV Exodus 20:6
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

Matthew 22:36-40
Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

if you do not love God do not keep his commandments

 

[mailmandan]

"...if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
Romans 8:13

What are the deeds of the body?

Sin.

And what is sin?

The breaking of the 10 Commandments.
1 John 3:4

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Children of God/Israel)
Romans 8:14

"... Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh (deeds of the body)."
Galatians 5:16
(Note: Interesting usage of the word 'fulfill' there in the KJV - it doesn't mean to 'complete' something nor to 'repeal' it at all - but to 'perform' something. Just as Jesus performed all of the 10 Commandments as an example to us with His lifetime - He did not repeal them at all.) John 15:10

"... if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under Law (because you are obeying the Commandments not to sin by way of the Holy Spirit)."

No merit for your accomplishments in obeying the Commandments necessary. All Glory to the Holy Spirit of God.

“Through the Spirit, led by the Spirit and walk in the Spirit” still does not imply that we are passive or that we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time. It's about the direction of our walk and not the perfection of our walk. Walking according to the Spirit is descriptive of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[mailmandan]

If that's all you've got to prove that adventists are teaching a false gospel, I would maintain your evidence is just as flimsy as the biblical evidence for a change in sacredness from the 7th day to the 1st.

It’s all I need, but there is more.

https://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml
[URL="https://www.exadventist.com/home/intro/tabid/64/default.aspx"]Quick Intro to SDA[/URL]
[URL='https://www.exadventist.com/home/intro/tabid/64/default.aspx'][URL="http://www.sabbatismos.com/the-gospel-1/adventism-the-gospel/#sthash.E9RHqRGB.dpbs"]Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - Adventism & the Gospel[/URL]
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