The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[mailmandan]

I teach exactly what scripture teaches to a 'T'. I use all scripture to build and support my case and let God's Word do all the talking.

SDA’s make the same claim, but what you actually do is mix the old and new covenants together and fail to rightly divide the word of truth and the end result is a perverted gospel of “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.”

 

[Christ4Me]

Your gang aint doin the bang-up job you think you are and this thread is not about the Sabbath.

Yet one of the ten commandments is keeping the sabbath. That is not a commandment repeated under the New Covenant unlike the others.

So either stop referring to the ten commandments when one is about observing the sabbath or address the edification for why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath as to what is different under the New Covenant which is we are saved.

I leave God to help you see the truth in His words for how you are opposing yourself by your words.

 

[Brakelite]

SDA’s make the same claim, but what you actually do is mix the old and new covenants together and fail to rightly divide the word of truth and the end result is a perverted gospel of “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.”

Where does this fit into your theology?
KJV James 2:11-12
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

So decades after Jesus returned to His Father, James is here saying, of Christians, that if they sin, they are transgressors of the law. Would that not include Sabbath breaking? What are the consequences of Christians transgressing the law?

 

[mailmandan]

Where does this fit into your theology?
KJV James 2:11-12
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

So decades after Jesus returned to His Father, James is here saying, of Christians, that if they sin, they are transgressors of the law. Would that not include Sabbath breaking? What are the consequences of Christians transgressing the law?

Christians are not under the law, but are under grace. (Romans 6:14) How do your questions fit with our discussion in regards to 1 John 3:9?

 

[Enoch111]

That's a hard one to overcome for those who desperately want to teach people to disobey God's Commandments.

Observing the Lord's Day is not disobeying God's Commandments but honoring Christ's resurrection while observing the Christian Sabbath.

 

[Brakelite]

Christians are not under the law, but are under grace. (Romans 6:14) How do your questions fit with our discussion in regards to 1 John 3:9?

So you are another who has only a vague idea of what being under the law actually means. And have only a limited understanding of what grace is.
You believe transgressing God's Commandments has no consequence to Christians? Sure, 1 John 3:9 offers us forgiveness, but that is conditional on repentance. It has no value for anyone whose sinful habits are cherished. In such a case the law's death sentence applies does it not... Unless you are a universalist.

 

[mailmandan]

So you are another who has only a vague idea of what being under the law actually means. And have only a limited understanding of what grace is.
You believe transgressing God's Commandments has no consequence to Christians? Sure, 1 John 3:9 offers us forgiveness, but that is conditional on repentance. It has no value for anyone whose sinful habits are cherished. In such a case the law's death sentence applies does it not... Unless you are a universalist.

Did John say that those who are born of God cherish sinful habits in 1 John 3:9? In 1 John 3:10, how does John describe children of God in contrast with children of the devil? How do you define repentance?

 

[Brakelite]

Did John say that those who are born of God cherish sinful habits in 1 John 3:9? In 1 John 3:10, how does John describe children of God in contrast with children of the devil? How do you define repentance?

How do you measure whether you have sinful habits or not? How does conviction work? Leave it to the holy Spirit to enlighten you through your conscience? Fair enough. Would the holy Spirit contradict what is written? Would He perhaps direct you to what is written if you are in ignorance intellectually of what God's standard of righteousness is? Maybe the ten commandments to get you back to basics, or the sermon on the mount to give a little more perspective? Maybe even have you involved in discussions with forum members who are perhaps a little more in tune with the Spirit than you, to point out your error? All of the above? I would suggest that God, in order to sanctify you wholly, would do everything possible to change your ways right because He loves you, and no-one with a deformed character will ever enter glory. So. Where are we with this? Does God have to knock you off your horse and blind you to wake you up to truth, or are you going to continue to kick against all the prompts and scriptures that are sent to teach you?

 

[mailmandan]

How do you measure whether you have sinful habits or not? How does conviction work? Leave it to the holy Spirit to enlighten you through your conscience? Fair enough. Would the holy Spirit contradict what is written? Would He perhaps direct you to what is written if you are in ignorance intellectually of what God's standard of righteousness is? Maybe the ten commandments to get you back to basics, or the sermon on the mount to give a little more perspective? Maybe even have you involved in discussions with forum members who are perhaps a little more in tune with the Spirit than you, to point out your error? All of the above? I would suggest that God, in order to sanctify you wholly, would do everything possible to change your ways right because He loves you, and no-one with a deformed character will ever enter glory. So. Where are we with this? Does God have to knock you off your horse and blind you to wake you up to truth, or are you going to continue to kick against all the prompts and scriptures that are sent to teach you?

That did not really answer my 3 questions. In regards to God’s standard of righteousness, see (Romans 4:4-6; 10:1-4; Philippians 3:9)

 

[Brakelite]

That did not really answer my 3 questions. In regards to God’s standard of righteousness, see (Romans 4:4-6; 10:1-4; Philippians 3:9)

Did John say that those who are born of God cherish sinful habits in 1 John 3:9?

Some habits don't disappear overnight, but sure, the power of God is readily available to all who hunger and thirst for righteousness. The promise is that such will be filled.

In 1 John 3:10, how does John describe children of God in contrast with children of the devil?

The children of God do righteousness.
KJV 1 John 2:29
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

How do you define repentance?

The complete surrender of the life to God that He may make your life something that He can fully approved of. That means being recreated in the image of Christ (Romans8:29). What was Christ's attitude to sin, and the law, linking the law with righteousness...
KJV Hebrews 1:8-9
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV Isaiah 42:21
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

KJV Psalms 119:172
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

KJV Matthew 6:33
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

You will have a very difficult work ahead of you attempting to separate the law from righteousness. You need to rethink your understanding of 'law' in the context Paul is using it in those examples you have. Think about this....
KJV Romans 2:13
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

[mailmandan]

Some habits don't disappear overnight, but sure, the power of God is readily available to all who hunger and thirst for righteousness. The promise is that such will be filled.


The children of God do righteousness.
KJV 1 John 2:29
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

The complete surrender of the life to God that He may make your life something that He can fully approved of. That means being recreated in the image of Christ (Romans8:29). What was Christ's attitude to sin, and the law, linking the law with righteousness...
KJV Hebrews 1:8-9
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV Isaiah 42:21
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

KJV Psalms 119:172
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

KJV Matthew 6:33
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

You will have a very difficult work ahead of you attempting to separate the law from righteousness. You need to rethink your understanding of 'law' in the context Paul is using it in those examples you have. Think about this....
KJV Romans 2:13
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Just like SDA’s, I see that you lean towards law keeping and sinless perfection. Now in regards to Romans 2:13, you need to examine this verse in CONTEXT. Paul was talking to the Jews (continue to read on in Romans 2:17-24) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the law will be justified before God (verse 13). That leaves them out, along with everyone else (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 2:16).

The standard they wanted to measure up to was the law. Paul was telling them that the doers of the law will be justified. So, obey the law, obey all of it, but if you don’t obey all of it, you failed! He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively doing the things of the law (verse 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more so the Jews? Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to measure up to the perfect standard of the law. They were hypocrites.

This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. No one was able to perfectly obey the law (which includes the 10 commandments) except for Jesus Christ. If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of all.

James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." Galatians 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." The Jews could only be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be 100% perfect, which is impossible! A person can’t fail even once, not ever. But all have failed (Romans 3:23; 6:23), that is why man is justified before God by faith and not by works of the law. (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

 

[Brakelite]

Just like SDA’s, I see that you lean towards law keeping and sinless perfection. Now in regards to Romans 2:13, you need to examine this verse in CONTEXT. Paul was talking to the Jews (continue to read on in Romans 2:17-24) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the law will be justified before God (verse 13). That leaves them out, along with everyone else (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 2:16).

The standard they wanted to measure up to was the law. Paul was telling them that the doers of the law will be justified. So, obey the law, obey all of it, but if you don’t obey all of it, you failed! He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively doing the things of the law (verse 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more so the Jews? Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to measure up to the perfect standard of the law. They were hypocrites.

This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. No one was able to perfectly obey the law (which includes the 10 commandments) except for Jesus Christ. If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of all.

James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." Galatians 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." The Jews could only be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be 100% perfect, which is impossible! A person can’t fail even once, not ever. But all have failed (Romans 3:23; 6:23), that is why man is justified before God by faith and not by works of the law. (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

The standard they wanted to measure up to was the law.

The law is the standard. And you are right, none of us have measured up, which is why Jesus had to die. But what would you have God to do? Lower the standard to accommodate your weakness, or put to death your old weak flesh nature, by grace grant you a new birth, and raise you up to the right standard? Which option for God choose?

 

[mailmandan]

The law is the standard. And you are right, none of us have measured up, which is why Jesus had to die. But what would you have God to do? Lower the standard to accommodate your weakness, or put to death your old weak flesh nature, by grace grant you a new birth, and raise you up to the right standard? Which option for God choose?

The latter. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean we will reach entire sanctification in this lifetime, but we will when we receive our glorified bodies.

 

[Brakelite]

Just like SDA’s, I see that you lean towards law keeping and sinless perfection.

No, SDAs lean toward an all powerful God Who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. It isn't about us and what we do. It's about Who God is and what He can do. That is true righteousness by faith. What faith in God's power says it is wrong to believe we can overcome sin?

 

[Brakelite]

The latter. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean we will reach entire sanctification in this lifetime, but we will when we receive our glorified bodies.

So what's the problem?

 

[mailmandan]

No, SDAs lean toward an all powerful God Who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. It isn't about us and what we do. It's about Who God is and what He can do. That is true righteousness by faith. What faith in God's power says it is wrong to believe we can overcome sin?

With SDA’s it’s about what THEY do. The gospel they preach culminates in “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.”

 

[mailmandan]

So what's the problem?

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Do you claim to have reached entire sanctification?

 

[Brakelite]

With SDA’s it’s about what THEY do. The gospel they preach culminates in “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.”

Nonsense. What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ.”—The Faith I Live By, E G White p.109.

 

[Brakelite]

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Do you claim to have reached entire sanctification?

Oohhh, here we go again. Since when has my performance been the benchmark for validation as to whether or not scripture is truth? Do you believe the scriptures?
KJV Ephesians 1:3-23
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

KJV Ephesians 3:14-21
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

How does anything I do, or don't do, validate the truth of the above?

 

[mailmandan]

Nonsense. What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ.”—The Faith I Live By, E G White p.109.

I’ve been in enough discussions with SDA’s over the years and have read enough material from former SDA’s to know it is not nonsense. Here is a statement below that a SDA once made to me which further confirms my point:

“The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.”