Christians are not under the New Covenant
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If it can't ever be fulfilled then why does God bother to mention it? God doesn't break His promises. You're talking (typing) nonsense again!
Christ is King of Glory!
Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Where what?
:What has the angel Gabriel's statement to Mary got to do with the New Covenant, that you say can't be fulfilled? Answer: the New Covenant has to be fulfilled before Gabriel's statement that Jesus "will reign over the house of Jacob forever" can happen.
Where what?
What has the angel Gabriel's statement to Mary got to do with the New Covenant, that you say can't be fulfilled? Answer: the New Covenant has to be fulfilled before Gabriel's statement that Jesus "will reign over the house of Jacob forever" can happen.
where is scripture to back up you’re assertions
the kingdom and king came 2000 yrs ago
Christ and his church
Lk 1:32-33 no end or eternal
You want me to give Bible references to back up my assertion that God doesn't break His promises?! Do you have faith in God or not?
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Let scripture speak for itself...
Isa 9:6-7...For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.
Psa 89:1-4..."I will sing of thy steadfast love, O LORD, for ever; with my mouth I will proclaim thy faithfulness to all generations. For thy steadfast love was established for ever, thy faithfulness is firm as the heavens. Thou hast said, "I have made a covenant with my chosen one, I have sworn to David my servant: 'I will establish your descendants for ever, and build your throne for all generations.'" Selah
Psa 89:1-4..."I will sing of thy steadfast love, O LORD, for ever; with my mouth I will proclaim thy faithfulness to all generations. For thy steadfast love was established for ever, thy faithfulness is firm as the heavens. Thou hast said, "I have made a covenant with my chosen one, I have sworn to David my servant: 'I will establish your descendants for ever, and build your throne for all generations.'" Selah
Are you saying God did not fulfill that promise to David?
Psa 89:35...Once for all I have sworn by my holiness; I will not lie to David.
Rom 6:10...The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
Heb 7:27...He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself.
Heb 9:12...he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Heb 9:26...for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 10:10...And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1Pe 3:18...For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
Jde 1:3...Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Rom 6:10...The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
Heb 7:27...He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself.
Heb 9:12...he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Heb 9:26...for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 10:10...And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1Pe 3:18...For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
Jde 1:3...Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
David's throne?
Mar 11:10...Blessed is the kingdom of our father David that is coming! Hosanna in the highest!"
Luk 1:32...He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
Luk 2:4...And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David,
Act 2:25...For David says concerning him, 'I saw the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
Act 2:34...For David did not ascend into the heavens; but he himself says, 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand,
Act 15:16...'After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up,
Luk 1:32...He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
Luk 2:4...And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David,
Act 2:25...For David says concerning him, 'I saw the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
Act 2:34...For David did not ascend into the heavens; but he himself says, 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand,
Act 15:16...'After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up,
Rev 3:7..."And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: 'The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.
Rev 5:5...Then one of the elders said to me, "Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals."
Rev 5:5...Then one of the elders said to me, "Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals."
Rev 5:3 is clear that, in regards to the Davidic throne, it is in heaven as "heaven" is mentioned twice in that chapter as well as "throne" being mentioned 5 times.
Rev 22:16..."I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star."
In Rev 22, the word "throne" is used twice and "the holy city" is the New Jerusalem.)
Dispensationalism says that there has to be a new temple built in Jerusalem with sacrifices reinstated because Christ is to sit on the Davidic throne there for a thousand years. But in Revelation 3:21 the word "throne" is used by by God to say that "I [God] will grant him [] to sit with me on my throne, as I myself [Jesus] conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Bottom line is that throughout the entire book of Revelation, not once does the risen Christ return to earth even for one day and you cannot prove it from that book!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Is God's word nonsense????
(Hebrews 9:15) And for this reason He is the Mediator of the New Covenant: in order that through His death . . . those who have been called might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance
No, of course not! What theefaith wrote was though. He wrote, "The covenant cannot be fulfilled".
If God makes a covenant to establish something forever, then that covenant has to be fulfilled in order for it to be established forever. If He promises to give us eternal life then His promise has to be fulfilled before we can have eternal life. Or are you saying that we have to wait forever to prove that God has kept His word, and therefore we can't ever believe that God will fulfill His promises and covenant?!
Once a Christian is given the immortal divine nature, then that means they wlll live forever. So it certainly will be fulfilled for Christians.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Not true again.
Jeremiah was the first to propose this concept of the New Covenant (and the only OT prophet to mention the New Covenant) that would accomplish what the old covenant could not. God would initiate this New Covenant "after those days" in Jeremiah 31:33. Jeremiah's prophecy anticipated the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, which would bring about this New Covenant.
With the New Covenant, there would be no need for priests to serve as mediators between God and people, because everyone who chose would be able to know God (v.34). Jeremiah records God's words, "I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more" (v.34).
The Old Covenant failed because the people broke the covenant, over and over again. The New Covenant, for salvation fulfilled in Jesus, would work with the old covenant to give people a heart for obedience and Holy Spirit power to obey (John 15-26 though 16:15; 2 Tim. 1:9-10; Titus 1:2).
Each of God's covenants could be boiled down like this: "I will be yours, and you will be Mine." It really is that simple even though God's people do it. They simply wouldn't stay away from selfishness and rebellion, idolatry and sin.
It's not like the Law was too complicated - Adam and Eve were just as disobedient with only one rule...."Do not eat..." They were God's people but yet they chose to listen to the voice of the serpent rather that trusting God's Word and so they gave into sin and in essence became the followers of a false prophet just as so many so-called prophets like John Nelson Darby and John Taze Russell. Adam and Eve's minds and their will were not obedient to God's covenant with them.
But with the New Covenant, we are privileged to see just how much compassion and mercy He is willing to show his children who choose to be his disciples. He could have just walked away. He didn't NEED Adam and Eve. He had given them more than enough chances. They hadn't just taken a misstep; they had will fully bucked, willfully chosen disobedience. God could have cut his losses and started over with new people. Or he could have just chosen to be done with humanity altogether.
But He didn't. Instead, He enacted the next step in his plan: a New Covenant, thoroughly built on love. God's New Covenant would be unlike the others; instead of requiring his people to come up to His impossible standards, he would send someone who could. That someone was Himself in the person of Jesus Christ.
:)Attachments
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Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
I cannot speak for theefaith but I would guess that it is and always be ongoing until eternity. In other words it's never ending because there will never be a new one.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I am still waiting for you to show how jesus fulfilled Ez. 38-39 but you have continued to refuse to answer this as well.
Yawn! Yawn!
So to you then ALLJewish people now know the Lord, have their sins removed and forgiven, Israel as a people are gods people again and He is ther god. Okay.
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Vse 33 All Israelis (house of Israel) have the law of the Lord in their inward parts now!
Vse 33: God is once again teh god of Israel and Israel (the 12 tribes) are Gods people again!
Vse. 34 All Jews now know the Lord from the least to the greatest
Vse 34: He has forgiven all Jews iniquities and no longer remembers any of their sin.
Thank you for finally telling me when this went into effect into your opinion. NOw I can tell one and all what your position is.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
lots of words. But they are not teh bible but simply making their opinions on the bible. I agree with most of their verbage, but some stuff is simply wrong.
also it does not say nor imply that one is a mediator of a covenant in effect and fulfilled.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Christs Works wewre divided.
He was prophet while on earth
Priest from teh time of the cross till teh present where Gods Word says Jessus is living ot make intercession for us and is our advocate.
King. when He weds the church in heaven and the Father says god, Jesus returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and reigns for 1,000 +years until death is destroyed.
Once death is destroyed then God's word says this:
1 Corinthians 15:22-28
King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
So Jesus reign as king is a temporary reign, if we believe the bible. Does this diminish our Precious Savior? Not in the least!
Hello @Moriah's Song,
All the promises of God will be fulfilled, to whomsoever they are made. What has not been fulfilled during Christ's first advent, will be fulfilled at His second advent.
* Wonderful verses, Moriah, thank you for sharing them. :)
* I am so grateful that God knows the end from the beginning, and that His will, will be fully done: in His time and in His way; and all His promises will be fulfilled.
* I am not going to argue with you about what you perceive to be dispensational teaching. For each one of us, regardless of our influences, have the same Bible to use as our plumb line. We must each bring what we hear or read to it's pages to check that what we have heard or seen is correct. Then we also need to be sure that what we say individually to others is in line with what is written in God's Word.
* Regardless of our influences, we can all unite in grateful thanks to our Heavenly Father, for His love and grace, and join together in praise, to Him for the salvation He has secured for us, in the person and work of His own beloved, only begotten Son.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
All the promises of God will be fulfilled, to whomsoever they are made. What has not been fulfilled during Christ's first advent, will be fulfilled at His second advent.
* Wonderful verses, Moriah, thank you for sharing them. :)
* I am so grateful that God knows the end from the beginning, and that His will, will be fully done: in His time and in His way; and all His promises will be fulfilled.
* I am not going to argue with you about what you perceive to be dispensational teaching. For each one of us, regardless of our influences, have the same Bible to use as our plumb line. We must each bring what we hear or read to it's pages to check that what we have heard or seen is correct. Then we also need to be sure that what we say individually to others is in line with what is written in God's Word.
* Regardless of our influences, we can all unite in grateful thanks to our Heavenly Father, for His love and grace, and join together in praise, to Him for the salvation He has secured for us, in the person and work of His own beloved, only begotten Son.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Actually, for the first time, you got it right....
1- "So to you then ALL Jewish people now know the Lord",...No, only the remnant of the OT Jewish believers plus the Gentile converts, and in the NT believers who recieved the Lord on the Day of Pentecost and forward (Jews and Gentiles) are those whose sins are forgiven and therefore make up the body of Christ.
2- "Israel as a people are gods people again"..."Only true Israel, God's people, composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers, have been God's people since Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were not called Israelites or Jews but they were still God's people if they believe in the promise of the Messiah to come as in Genesis 3:15 - the seed. It is not that, Israel as a people are God's people AGAIN, because God's people began in the Garden of Eden and has continued that way all the way through the cross and onto the book of Revelation. That "tree of life" was the "tree of the cross" Jesus died on and is the same "tree of life" (eternal life) that is seen in the book of Revelation chapter 22. It that "tree" that has never stopped growing and will continue to grow with both Jewish and Gentile believers being grafted in until the Last Day, Judgement day.
3- "...and He is ther god." No, He is OUR God, not just THEIR GOD. It's ALL people's God who believe in the Savior who paid the price for our sins can legitmately called "a child of God."
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