Christians are not under the New Covenant

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Ronald Nolette

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Christ replaced david as king Lk 1:32-33
The church replaced Israel as kingdom matt 21:43
The new covenant replaced the old
Heb 8:13

1. Correct
2. YOu are even more in left field than the Watchtower
3. Yes teh New replaced the old but is not in effect yet., The covenant is paid for with Jesus' blood but it has not gone in to effect as written. As rewritten by your Roman puppet masters, you think so, but not as God wrote His word!
 

Ronald Nolette

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It still seems backwards to me. Surely a better example would be "If you saw a friend start to consider JW's as legitimate Christians, would you try to convince him otherwise, because of your love for him?"


I don't consider it a problem!


And out of his love for you he might try to convince you of the truth of what he had learnt from the JW's. Would you still remain friends, and conduct your conversations in a friendly manner? You should do!

You won't convince MOriah.

Moriah has declared that believers who hold to a literal /historical/grammatical hermeneutic are not saved. I know of Mormons who are saved, and I suspect there may be a few JW'S WHO ARE SAVED AS WELL! IT IS NOT ABOUT WHICH CHURCH YOU BELONG TO , BUT WHO DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS IS AND WHAT DO YOU TRUST FOR YOUR SALVATION THAT MATTERS.

After that false doctrine just hampers your relationship with God and stunts your growth but you are still saved, though a cripple in the kingdom.
 

theefaith

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1. Correct
2. YOu are even more in left field than the Watchtower
3. Yes teh New replaced the old but is not in effect yet., The covenant is paid for with Jesus' blood but it has not gone in to effect as written. As rewritten by your Roman puppet masters, you think so, but not as God wrote His word!

not in effect yet? So for 2000 yrs no one has been saved?
 

theefaith

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Untold millions have been saved. but not because of the New Covenant as is declared by God in Jeremiah 31:31-34

how can anyone have the salvation of Jesus Christ without the new covenant in his blood? Jn 1:29

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

IS! IS! IS! Not someday will be but IS one mediator! Present tense!
 

Moriah's Song

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how can anyone have the salvation of Jesus Christ without the new covenant in his blood? Jn 1:29

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

IS! IS! IS! Not someday will be but IS one mediator! Present tense!
Been there! Done that! You will shortly find out he has blindfolds on.:cool:

You have to define the word "is" to him. He doesn't get it.
 

Josho

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Christians sometimes ask “Do the 10 commandments apply to us, or were they just for the Israelites?” The answer is no they do not apply to us, and yes they do!

A summary of the Sinaitic Law is “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind; and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus kept, and fulfilled, the Law Covenant by his death. By willingly sacrificing himself so that he should become man’s redeemer (which only he could do as he was the only perfect man since Adam), he was fulfilling the Law which declares that all under it must love God more than they love themselves, and that therefore they would so delight to do God’s will that they would gladly sacrifice their own will, and even their own life. It is declared that Jesus gave up his life joyfully – “I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart” (Psalms 40:8).

Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” (Matthew 5:17). The old Sinaitic Law Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus, and is therefore no more in effect. The Apostle Paul said, “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away” (Hebrew 8:13). Paul also said “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster” (Galations 4:24-25).

The New Covenant, or Testament, has not yet gone into effect, so far as the world is concerned. The Law associated with the New Covenant will be the same unchanging Law of God, which declares divine opposition to sin, and divine favour and blessing for the righteous. This Law will be in effect during the Millennial age, when allowances will be made for mankind’s imperfections as they are gradually restored to human perfection. Thus it is written “This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: … and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more” (Hebrews 8:10-12; Jeremiah 31:33-34). (This will be part of the “restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began” - Acts 3:21). The New Covenant is a covenant of forgiveness, blessing and restitution.

So the Law Covenant has been fulfilled and cancelled by Jesus and the New Covenant will be in operation during the Millennial age, but what of the interim? Is there any covenant in operation, and is there any law connected with it?

During the interim Gospel age God is selecting the members of the New Creation (the body of Christ), and a covenant is now in force, and it has a law. The Apostle Paul tells us that the Law “was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made” (Galatians 3:19). Therefore the Law Covenant given at Sinai was an addition to a previous covenant, and looking back we see that the Abrahamic Covenant was the original one, and that it had stood for 430 years before the Law Covenant was added - “the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect” (Galatians 3:17).

Therefore we see that when our Lord Jesus fulfilled the Law Covenant it left the original Abrahamic Covenant, just as it was before the Law was added, and this is the covenant under which the New Creation is being developed. The Abrahamic promise or Covenant was that “in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 28:14). The Apostle explained that this seed refers to Christ - “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ” (Galatians 3:16), and added, “And if ye be Christ's, [if you become members in particular of the body of Christ] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29).

Thus Christians are not under the Sinai or Law Covenant, so what law are we under? The Apostle said “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14). However, this does not mean that we can willingly disobey the Sinaitic Law. When we became Christians we repented of our sinful ways, meaning we regretted them and changed direction, turning away from them (Strong’s concordance describes ‘repent’ as meaning “to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins”). Therefore, having turned away from our sinful ways, we should be trying to not sin, and as disobeying the Law covenant would be a sin we should be trying to obey the Law Covenant, even if we are no longer condemned under it if we fail to keep it completely.

When we consecrated our lives to God, we declared our love for God and his righteousness, and we became bound by the Law of Love. Our hope according to God’s promises is to become adopted sons of God (“he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will”, Ephesians 1:5, NIV), which means that we need to develop God likeness, and God is love. “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love” (1 John 4:8).

Jesus said, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:37-40). He also said “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15), and “the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me” (John 14:24). So if we love God and Jesus we should try to obey God’s commandments and laws. “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3).

Therefore, having been redeemed from condemnation due to sin, we should now be continually striving to live according to God’s righteous laws (even though we may not be able to succeed completely while still living in our imperfect human bodies). As the Apostle Paul said, “What then? Are we to sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not!” “We died to sin: how can we live in it any longer?” “We know that our old humanity has been crucified with Christ, for the destruction of the sinful self, so that we may no longer be slaves to sin, because death cancels the claims of sin. But if we thus died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him, knowing as we do that Christ, once raised from the dead, is never to die again: he is no longer under the dominion of death. When he died, he died to sin, once for all, and now that he lives, he lives to God. In the same way you must regard yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God, in union with Christ Jesus. Therefore sin must no longer reign in your mortal body, exacting obedience to the body’s desires. You must no longer put any part of it at sin’s disposal, as an implement for doing wrong. Put yourselves instead at the disposal of God; think of yourselves as raised from death to life, and yield your bodies to God as implements for doing right.” “When you were slaves of sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. And what gain did that bring you? Things that now make you ashamed, for their end is death. But now, freed from the commands of sin and bound to the service of God, you have gains that lead to holiness, and the end is eternal life. For sin pays a wage, and the wage is death, but God gives freely, and his gift is eternal life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:15,2,6-13,20-23 - REB).

Some people do not understand this and they quote 1 John 3:9 in order to accuse others of not being true Christians – “Whosoever is born [begotten] of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born [begotten] of God”. They think this means that if you commit just one sin, then you cannot be a true Christian, failing to understand that no Christian is completely righteous (Romans 3:10, Psalms 14:2-3) or perfect, and will not be until their resurrection. In the meantime we struggle to be overcomers of the temptations of the flesh, and the world, and Satan, and though we sometimes fail we must never give up trying, nor give up the desire to be righteous. Though we cannot yet be perfect in our thoughts, words and actions, we can have a desire to be perfect. “But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me” (Romans 7:20 - MKJV).

We are under the New Covenant of grace, the turning point was when Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

In regards to Old Testament law though, there are things that still apply like the 10 commandments, but there are other things that don't, animal sacrifices are no longer needed, circumcision of the human flesh is no longer needed, laws like no tattoos and no shaving beards from Leviticus, these laws did not get carried into the New Testament.

Someone else would be able to explain better, but there are different laws in the Old Testament set into different categories, Priestly laws, Mosaic laws, etc.

A lot of them weren't carried on into the New Testament.
 

Ronald Nolette

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how can anyone have the salvation of Jesus Christ without the new covenant in his blood? Jn 1:29

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

IS! IS! IS! Not someday will be but IS one mediator! Present tense!

Now go and learn what a mediator does!

mediator
[ˈmēdēˌādər]
NOUN
  1. a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between.
Once again and I hope you pay attention this time- if someone is a mediator and is mediating- that means the parties involved in teh contract/covenant/agreement etc. have not come to terms and the covenant is not in effect yet! What is it with so many here that they forget simple definitions of simple words?

Jesus blood is the price that pays for the New Covenant as declared in only Jer. 31:31-34. We who are not Jewish are th epeople being called out of teh Gentiles for His name!
 

Moriah's Song

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So the Law Covenant has been fulfilled and cancelled by Jesus and the New Covenant will be in operation during the Millennial age, but what of the interim? Is there any covenant in operation, and is there any law connected with it?
The Jeremiah 31 New Covenant was fulfilled in Christ when he instituted the New Covenant as in...

Luk 22:20...And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
1Co 11:25...In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
2Co 3:6...who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Heb 8:8...For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
Heb 8:13...In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 9:15...Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.
Heb 12:24...and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.
Jesus came to bring salvation to all people of all nations, Jew or Gentile, and to bring peace to God and man. That is what a mediator does and is and Jesus fulfilled that OT Jeremiah covenant of promise to bring us to a closer relationship with God than what was in the OT!
 
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keithr

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The Jeremiah 31 New Covenant was fulfilled in Christ when he instituted the New Covenant
Jesus didn't fulfill the New Covenant - he fulfilled the Law Covenant. Matthew 5:17 (WEB):

(17) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.​

Moses was the mediator, between God and the people, of the Law Covenant. God spoke to Moses, and Moses told the people what God had said. The people agreed to the terms, but they then broke them almost immediately by creating the golden calf and worshiping it. Moses then spoke to God, asking God to forgive them. Moses was the mediator of the Law Covenant.

Jesus has redeemed us from the Law Covenant and he is the mediator, between God and mankind, of the New Covenant - Hebrews (WEB):

8:6) But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
9:15) Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.​

Nobody has yet received the promised eternal inheritance - Christians are not yet divine spirit beings in heaven sitting on thrones as kings and priests of God's kingdom. We have been redeemed from the old covenant and a new covenant has been agreed - the mediation is completed. But the new covenant has yet to be implemented; it's waiting for the gathering of those whom God is calling to become members of the body of Christ. Hebrews 11:39-40 (WEB):

(39) And all these [faithful men of the OT], though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
(40) since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.​

It is only after all of the called out Christian Church (the "fullness of the Gentiles") has been resurrected, after the full number of those called have been resurrected (at the rapture), that then the New Covenant can go into operation and Israelites and the rest of mankind can receive the promises of the New Covenant. Romans 11:25-33 (WEB):

(25) For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,
(26) and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written, “There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
(27) This is my covenant with them, when I will take away their sins.”
(28) Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake.
(29) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(30) For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience,
(31) even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy.
(32) For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.
(33) Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!

Romans 8:16-19 (WEB):
(16) The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God;
(17) and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.
(18) For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which will be revealed toward us.
(19) For the creation waits with eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.​
 

theefaith

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Now go and learn what a mediator does!

mediator
[ˈmēdēˌādər]
NOUN
  1. a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between.
Once again and I hope you pay attention this time- if someone is a mediator and is mediating- that means the parties involved in teh contract/covenant/agreement etc. have not come to terms and the covenant is not in effect yet! What is it with so many here that they forget simple definitions of simple words?

Jesus blood is the price that pays for the New Covenant as declared in only Jer. 31:31-34. We who are not Jewish are th epeople being called out of teh Gentiles for His name!

that’s a negotiator not a mediator
Moses was always mediating the old covenant not just negotiating and beginning it

Christ has been mediator of the new covenant for 2000 yrs
Next you will say we are still waiting for the kingdom to come
 

Oceanprayers

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After Jesus reiterated the 9 commands he told his listeners the two greatest commands are to love God with all your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
Then he said that upon those two commands, which are a synopsis of the full ten commandments, hang all the laws and the prophets.

Odd thing to say if the ten commandments no longer apply to today's Christian.
Because not all has been accomplished in matters of Jesus and the Messiah prophecy.
Salvation covenant was just the beginning.:)
 

Ronald Nolette

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The Jeremiah 31 New Covenant was fulfilled in Christ when he instituted the New Covenant as in...

Luk 22:20...And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
1Co 11:25...In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
2Co 3:6...who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Heb 8:8...For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
Heb 8:13...In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 9:15...Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.
Heb 12:24...and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.
Jesus came to bring salvation to all people of all nations, Jew or Gentile, and to bring peace to God and man. That is what a mediator does and is and Jesus fulfilled that OT Jeremiah covenant of promise to bring us to a closer relationship with God than what was in the OT!


Once again you have redefined the word mediator.

The only verse that has any relevance at all to the New covenant as declared by Almighty God in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is Heb. 8:13.

The rest of them you have to retranslate and reword the biblical New Covenant to make it fit your preconceived notion.

Once again let us expose why you are incorrect.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Verse 31 and Heb. 8 match. Neither one says when those days are. Notice to whom the New Covenant is made with, the Jewish nation as a people group!

Verse 32: Heb. 8:13 hearkens to this verse! We must also remember that no Gentile people group were under the Mosaic Covenant or the Law!

Verse 33: Notice god says He will make and NOT MEDIATE! Once again to whom is He making this covenant with? Well if one reads trhe bible without outside influence- you naturally conclude the Jewish people! Not all Jews have gods law in their inward parts. Also Currently is "not my people" so verse 33 remains unfulfilled. this is the first verse that declares the content of teh covenant.

Verse 34: This has not happened yet in the houses of Judah and Israel as God says it must.

So the content of the New Covenant as spewlled out in Jeremiah 31 remains unfulfilled unless one corrects the bible and reinterprets it so that teh words that are normally and usually understood as one thing now must mean something else entirely.

Now for the Last Supper! First off it was a Jewish seder with Jewish people! Jesus took a specific cup from the seder meal and declared it was His blood! His blood, while removing the penalty of our sins is not the covenant as spelled out in Jeremiah 31! If we are to stay faithful to what Jesus was saying and doing in HIs time and culture, He was specifically saying His blood was the required price to insure the New covenant would go into effect!

Now, though having been accused of being unsaved, in league with the devil by preaching doctrines of demons and being in a wolf in sheeps clothing, I will recognize this.

While there is nothing in the New testament that shows the Jeremiah 31 New Covenant as fulfilled AS WRITTEN, there does remain a possibility of a seperate new covenant made for the church. It is loaded with many doctrinal and grammatical and historic problems but at least the language leaves a door cracked open for a possibility.

Now to repost this definition again (for the many who haven't read it yet the many times I have already posted it):

mediator
[ˈmēdēˌādər]
NOUN
  1. a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between.
    "the government appointed a mediator to assist in finding a resolution to the dispute"
Now we are talking about a covenant which is a far more in depth type of contract! When a covenant is in effect one does not need a mediator. A mediator is only needed when a contract, agreement, covenant, talks have not produced the end result and one is called in to bring the parties to agreement!

The very fact that the Bible says Jesus is currently mediatong the new covenant should tell us that it has not gone into effect! Unless of course one chooses to redefine mediator.
 

theefaith

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We have union in the new covenant thru having union with Christ and therefore communion with God and his saints
 

Moriah's Song

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Jesus didn't fulfill the New Covenant - he fulfilled the Law Covenant. Matthew 5:17 (WEB):
(17) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
When Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law OR the prophets; I have NOT come to abolish THEM but to fulfill THEM" just who are the THEM? The text specifically says he came "to fulfill the Law AND the Prophets." That would include Jeremiah 31 because Jeremiah was certainly a prophet! The LAW refers to the Mosaic law and those commandments are still in effect and for a very good reason.

The very fact that the Bible says Jesus is currently mediatong the new covenant should tell us that it has not gone into effect!
Yawn! Yawn!:rolleyes: It went into "effect" when Christs' blood poured out of his body!!! Blood ratified a covenent in the OT.
 
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Moriah's Song

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The very fact that the Bible says Jesus is currently mediatong the new covenant should tell us that it has not gone into effect!

IV. Mediation and Mediator in the New Testament.
International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia

The relatively independent lines of development which the conception of mediation has hitherto taken now meet and coalesce in Jesus Christ.

1. The Synoptic Gospels:

The traditional division of Christ's mediatorial work into that of prophet, priest and king (very common since Calvin, but now often discarded) offers a convenient method of treating the subject, though we must avoid making the division absolute, as if Christ's work fell apart into three separate and independent functions. The unity of the work of salvation is preserved by the fact that "no one of the offices fills up a moment of time alone, but the others are always cooperative," although "Christ's mediatorial work puts now this, now that side in the foreground." "The triple division is of special value, because it sets in a vivid light the continuity between the Old Testament theocracy and Christianity" (Dorner, System of Christian Doctrine, English translation, III, 385 ff). These three aspects of Christ's mediatorship can be distinguished in the Synoptics, although the formal distinction is the work of later analysis.

(1) Christ as Prophet.

It was in the character of Prophet that He mainly impressed the common mind, which was moved to inquire "Whence hath this man this wisdom?" and by His reply, "A prophet is not without honor," etc., He virtually accepts that title (Mt 13:54,57). As Prophet, Christ is the mediator of revelation; through Him alone can men come to know God as Father (Mt 11:27) and "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" (Mt 13:11). In all His teaching we feel that He speaks within the center of truth, and hence can teach with authority and not as the scribes (Mt 7:29), who approach the truth from without. His teaching is part of His redemptive work, and not something extraneous to it, for the sin from which He redeems includes ignorance and error.

(2) Christ as King.

The official name "Christ" (equals Messiah, the anointed King) refers primarily to His kingship. The Messianic hope had taught men to look forward to the rule of God on earth instituted and administered through His representative. Christ was the fulfillment of that hope. Though He held an attitude of reserve in the matter, there can be no doubt that He conceived of Himself as the Messiah (Mr 8:27-30; 14:16 f; compare His entry into Jerusalem as a triumphant king, Mr 11:1; the inscription on the cross, Mr 15:26). But it is also clear that He fundamentally modified the Messianic idea, (a) by suffusing it with the thought of vicarious suffering, and (b) by giving it an ethical and spiritual rather than a national and official significance. The note of His kingship was that of authority (Mr 1:27; 2:10; Mt 7:29; 28:18) exercised in the realm of truth and conscience. His kingship includes the future as well as the present; He is the arbiter of human destiny (Mt 25:31 ).

(3) Christ as Priest (Redeemer).

The synoptists do not hint at the priestly analogy. Our Lord often spoke of forgiveness without mentioning Himself as the one through whom it was mediated, as if it flowed directly from the gracious heart of the Father (compare the parables of Lu 15). But there are other passages which emphasize the close connection of His person with men's redemption. Men's attitude to Him decides absolutely their relation to God (Mt 10:32,40). Rest of soul is mediated to the heavy laden through Him (Mt 11:28-30). He claims authority on earth to forgive sins (Mr 2:10). We have no evidence that He spoke definitely of His death until after Peter's confession at Caesarea (Mr 8:31, "began to teach," etc.), though we seem to have vague allusions earlier (e.g. the allegory of the bridegroom, Mr 2:19,20). This may be partly due to conscious reserve, in accordance with the true pedagogical method by which He adapted His teaching to the progressive receptivity of His followers. But inasmuch as we must think of Him as subject to the ordinary laws of human psychology, the idea of His death must have been to Him a growth, matured partly by outward events, and partly by the development of His inner consciousness as the Suffering Messiah. In His later ministry, He frequently taught that He must suffer and die (Mr 9:12,31; 10:32 f; 12:8; 14:8 and parallel passages; compare Mr 10:38; Lu 12:49 f). There are two important passages which expressly connect His death with His mediatorial work. The first is Mr 10:45 (parallel Mt 20:28), "The Son of Man came not to be ministered unto but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." The context shows that it was while the thought of His approaching death filled His mind that our Lord uttered these words (compare Mr 10:33,38 f). As to the exact meaning of ransom (lutron) there are two circles of ideas with which it may be associated. (a) It may mean a sacrificial offering, representing Hebrew kopher (literally, "covering," "propitiatory gift") which it translates several times in Septuagint (e.g. Ex 30:12). Thus, Ritschl defines it as "an offering which, because of its specific worth to God, is a protection or coveting against sin" (Rechtfertigung und Versohnung, II, 68-88). (b) It may mean ransom price, the purchase-money paid for the emancipation of a slave. In Septuagint, lutron in most cases stands for some form of the roots ga'al, "to deliver," padhah, "to redeem" (e.g. Le 25:51; Nu 3:51). Hence, Wendt explains the "ransom" as the price by which Jesus redeemed His disciples from their bondage to suffering and death (Teaching of Jesus, II, 226 ff). This analogy certainly suits the context better than that drawn from the Levitical ritual, for it brings out the contrast between the liberating work of Christ and the enslaving work of those who "lord it over" men. We must not press the analogy in detail or seek here an answer to the question, who was the recipient of the ransom price (e.g. whether the Devil, as many Fathers, notably Origen and Gregory of Nyssa; God, as Anselm and later theologians; the "eternal law of righteousness," as Dale). The purpose of the passage is primarily practical, not speculative. It is certainly pressing the figurative language of Jesus too far to insist that the ransom price is the exact quantitative equivalent of the lives liberated, or of the penalty they had deserved regarded as a debt. This is too prosaic and literalistic an interpretation of a passage which has its setting in the ethical rather than in the commercial realm, and which breathes a spirit closely akin to that of Isa 53, where suffering and service axe, as here, combined.

The other passage in which Christ definitely connects His mediatorship with His death is that which reports His words at the Last Supper (Mr 14:22-24; Mt 26:26-28; Lu 22:19 f; compare 1Co 11:24 f). The reported words are not identical in the several narratives. But even in their simplest form (in Mark), there is evidently a threefold allusion, to the paschal lamb, to the sacrifice offered by Moses at the ratification of the covenant at Sinai (Ex 24:8), and to Jeremiah's prophecy of a new covenant (Ex 31$; 32$; 33$; 34$). There can be little doubt that the paschal feast, though it does not conform in detail to any of the Levitical sacrifices, was regarded as a sacrifice, as is indicated by the blood ceremonial (Ex 12:21-27). The blood of the covenant, too, is sacrificial; and, as we have seen, it is probable that all blood sacrifices, and not those of the sin and guilt offerings only, were associated with propitiatory power. It must be admitted that the words in Matthew "unto remission of sins," which have no counterpart in the other reports, are probably an explanatory expansion of the words actually uttered. But they are a true interpretation of their meaning, as is attested by the fact that the new covenant of Jeremiah's prophecy was one of forgiveness and justification (Jer 31:34), and that Christ speaks of His blood as shed for others. And as the Passover signified deliverance from bondage to an earthly power (Egypt), so the Supper stands for forgiveness and deliverance from a spiritual power (sin). Clearly Christ here represents Himself as the Mediator of the new covenant, through whom men are to find acceptance with God, though the exact modus operandi of His sacrifice is not indicated.

The Synoptics give special prominence to those historical events which are most intimately associated with Christ's mediatorship-not only the agony in the garden and the crucifixion, but also the resurrection and ascension (which make possible His intercessory mediation in heaven).

Mediation; Mediator - International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia

This was a brief portion of the article from the International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia which can be seen at the above link.
 
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keithr

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When Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law OR the prophets; I have NOT come to abolish THEM but to fulfill THEM" just who are the THEM? The text specifically says he came "to fulfill the Law AND the Prophets." That would include Jeremiah 31 because Jeremiah was certainly a prophet! The LAW refers to the Mosaic law and those commandments are still in effect and for a very good reason.
Or as the GNB translates it (Matthew 5:17):

(17) "Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true.​

Jesus was saying that he had not come to annul the Law (Torah), nor to annul the teachings of the prophets. But he had not come to fulfill every prophecy at that time - some prohecies, yes, but not all prophecies. There are many prophecies still yet to be fulfilled (such as Jeremiah 31, and the prochecies of Daniel).
 

Moriah's Song

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Jesus was saying that he had not come to annul the Law (Torah), nor to annul the teachings of the prophets. But he had not come to fulfill every prophecy at that time - some prohecies, yes, but not all prophecies. There are many prophecies still yet to be fulfilled (such as Jeremiah 31, and the prochecies of Daniel).
So say you? Jeremiah 31 most definitely has been fulfilled. Did you not read the International Bible Encyclopedia's main point that was...Christ, as mediator, fulfilled the major 3 roles as prophesied from the OT; those being PROPHET, KING, and PRIEST? (and I might add SAVIOR to this topic.)
 

charity

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I don't accuse you of preaching another Jesus. I accuse "the system" you use and let scripture speak for itself. I will always speak out against what dispensationalism has done to unsuspecting individuals because of the proliferation techniques that Satan has taken advantage of to split the "body of Christ" into two groups of people. That is where the heart of the system has been able to successfully put odds within "the church" today.
Hello @Moriah's Song,

The Church which is the Body of Christ is not divided. Divisions between believers have been caused by doctrinal differences resulting in the various denominations, long before dispensational teaching came into operation. I would be interested to learn what you have witnessed which suggests that dispensationalism has been the cause of division.
@Moriah's song said:-
The main thoughts that dispensationalist avoid about Christ is that it in truth brings a Holy God down to mans level. Dispensationalism wants to bring Christ back again to do exactly what he did the first time he came to bring salvation to ALL who believe in Him - Jew and Gentile.
* How does that manifest itself in their teaching, @Moriah's Song. Can you give an example please?
Moriah's song said:-
~ It says that Christ failed his mission to bring the Jeremiah 31 promise to bring the two houses together.
* Was that what the Lord Jesus Christ came to do?
Moriah's song said:-
~ It says that Christ is coming back to sit on David's throne when he was already crowned King of Kings even while hanging on the cross.
* The Scripture tells us the the Lord Jesus Christ will sit on the throne of His ancestor David:- 'He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.'(Luke 1:32-33) Do you believe that this reign has already begun, Moriah?
Moriah's song says:-
~ It denies that "Israel" is the church and therefore denies that both Jews and Gentiles were shown to be united through the Jews first and then through the Gentiles which made it "the body with several parts united in one Christ."
*The Church which is the Body of Christ comprises individuals from all nations, joined together under the headship of Christ.

* Israel as a nation is at present in a Lo-ammi condition of unbelief, but they will on that day which God alone knows, come to repentance (Zechariah 12:10), and take up their divinely allotted role of Priests unto God among the nations.
Moriah's song says:-
~ It denies that "the land" was viewed by Abraham and his descendants as if they were in a "foreign land" i.e. the New Jerusalem not a literal piece of real estate in the middle east....Heb 11:9..."By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise."
* I have never heard that truth denied, for it is a Scriptural fact that Abraham lived within the land God promised to Him as though a stranger and a sojourner.

* Jerusalem is obviously a literal city within the Land of Israel. The New Jerusalem will descend from the New Heaven. (Revelation 21:2)
Moriah's song says:-
~ It says that Christs' sacrifices were insufficient so therefore we have to build another temple so we can do a re-do of his sacrifices.
* The sacrificial work of Christ is all-sufficient, why would anyone deny that?
Moriah's song says:-
~ It denies that the New Covenant is not "for now" but for the Jews later.
* The new covenant is in abeyance now. The Old Covenant was made with Israel, and so will the New Covenant be. (Jeremiah 31:31 & Hebrews 8:8).
Moriah's song says:-
~ It denies Christs' fulfillment of his priesthood and him as the prophet of all prophets.
* How?
Moriah's song said:-
~ It denies Christs' own words that He fulfilled ALL that the Father had given him.
* How?
Moriah's song says:-
~ It denies that Christ fulfilled His promise to make "peace on earth" when in fact he did as in Col 1:20 says..."and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."
* Again: How?
Moriah's song says:-
~ It denies that a "multitude" of Jews repented of their sins on the Day of Pentecost as well as a multitude of Samaritans that repented through Philip.
* It is written, so why should it be denied, Moriah?

'Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.'

(Act 2:41)

'But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem,
and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.'

(Act 1:8)

Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake,
hearing and seeing the miracles which he did' .

(Acts 8:5 -6)
Moriah's song said:-
~ It promotes a false idea of the "rapture" of the church so the saints won't have to go through "the tribulation" even though the Mosaic Jews went through a great deal of tribulations for thousands of years.
* How can the words of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 be denied? This is what is called 'the rapture'. Had Israel heeded the words of Peter in Acts 3:19-21, then Christ would have returned and the event of 1 Thessalonians 4, would have taken place, it now awaits a future fulfillment.
Moriah's song says:-
~ It denies that the 1,000 is a figure of speech as if it were the only instance in scripture that the term is used...."

Psa 50:10..."For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills."
Q- Does God actually have cattle's on a thousand hills some where in Israel?
Psa 90:4..."For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night."
Q- Is this literally meant or symbolically meant?
1Ch 16:15...He is mindful of his covenant for ever, of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,
Q- Can the first half of this thought be literal and "a thousand generations" as symbolic?
Deu 7:9...Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,
Q- What's "a thousand generations?" Even the word "generations" have different meanings to it!
In this generation of biblical illiteracy, many hearers eagerly swallow this man-made version of Christ, never challenging the twisted doctrine that conceived it. When people refuse to love the truth, the real Jesus, or God's holy Word, God gives them over to their own ideas and their false Christ's, none of which have any power to save.

I truly believe that there are many pastors in the pulpit that recognize the heresy of dispensationalism that has so infiltrated the church today and yet they don't dare speak out against it to their congregations because they are afraid that half of their members will get up and walk out. We are at a very climax in God's church and the "signs" are definitely in place for a "genuine" one time only "rapture" of the church
.
* It is the Truth of God's word that is the Arbiter in all matters of doctrine, and that applies to dispensational truth too, it all has to be brought to the plumb line of God's word and measured.

* I am sorry to hear that you have such a bad opinion of those who have found dispensational teaching useful to them in their study of God's Word. For I am one who has benefitted enormously from it.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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