The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Kermos]

He said that to the twelve disciples...

This post is another one of a series proclaiming many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

In John chapter 14, John chapter 15, and John chapter 16 Jesus explicitly promises the Holy Spirit. For example, He said "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." (John 14:16-17).

When the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples of Jesus at Pentecost, there were about 120 persons present according to the next two sets of passages:

"Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers. At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said" (Acts 1:12-15)

"When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4)
​

One hundred twenty people is more than eleven Apostles; therefore, the Lord Jesus was talking to all His disciples of all time when Jesus said "you" with reference to the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17) and He said "you" with reference to God's exclusive ability to choose men and men's inability to choose God (John 15:16) as recorded by the Apostle John.

CRUCIAL POINT: The Holy Spirit, The Apostle Peter, The Gentiles Cornelius And All His Household, And Lord Jesus Saying "You"

Cornelius is of crucial import to this topic for among the places that we find fulfillment of the Word of God's promise of the Holy Spirit is when Gentiles at Cornelius' place were filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44).

At a time after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Peter recounted to the apostles and brethren about the Gentiles Cornelius with his relatives and his close friends, and the account Peter shared of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit with being saved illuminated that not just Jews would be saved but also Gentiles would be saved (Acts 11:1-18).

At that time, Peter said to the apostles and brethren "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit'" (Acts 11:16).

Prior to the time of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Lord Jesus said "John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5) to the apostles whom Jesus gathered togather (Acts 1:4) which included Peter, and Jesus says "you" right here - with the apostles present right there, Jesus says "you".

Later after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Peter remembered Lord Jesus saying "you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" and there is the word "you" (Acts 11:16) which Peter tied to the Gentiles Cornelius with all his household (Acts 11:14); furthermore, Peter tied when Lord Jesus says "you" to all believers in all time (Acts 11:17)!

Thus, the fulfillment of the Word of God's promise of the Holy Spirit is more than the 11 Apostles, and includes not just the Jews but also the Gentiles because of Cornelius, and our Lord Jesus saying "you" to the disciples includes all disciples in all time.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Lord Jesus Christ died exclusively to save all the persons whom Christ chooses.

 

[Scott Downey]

Libertarian FREE WILL is a lie of Satan, it is one of the tenets of Satanism, as in Do as thou will.
It also goes back to Adam and Eve, Eve had this freewill desire in her heart to eat of the fruit, and she did.
Forever after man was no longer free, he had given away his freedom and become slaves of SIN leading to death. Only Christ can deliver you from that.

After the fall in Eden, man's freewill to choose for God was gone, man needed a new heart and a new spirit, man's fate was bound to Satan's, and they share the same fates in hell fire.

So even in the garden before the fall, man chose to do the wrong thing. Exercise of freewill without God directing your steps is folly.
And who do you suppose allowed Satan to enter the garden? So we see then the fall was predetermined, as ever after man will give to God all the glory due for his salvation from Sin. God gets all the glory.

Psalm 37
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord,
And He delights in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down;
For the Lord upholds him with His hand.

 

[Renniks]

People make this huge deal about how free they are, but they lie and do not acknowledge the truth, that they are NOT free.

Rotflol!
Can you not see that you are just contradicting yourself? We cannot lie if we have no free will! In that situation we can only do as God causes us to. If we lie, it's actually God lying through us.
No one is free without some boundaries, obviously. I cannot flap my arms and fly to London just because I want to. But saying we have no free will whatsoever means we actually choose nothing we do. In that world, if I sin, it cannot be me actually sinning. It's ultimately God causing my actions. You really haven't thought this through.

 

[Renniks]

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered

Another verse confirming you can still choose even if you are a slave to sin. You aren't so bound you have no free will whatsoever.

 

[Renniks]

A person claiming free will is a vessel of wrath prepared for destruction.

No, this verse is about rebellious Israel. And God still gave them mercy. They were prepared for destruction because of their actions BTW. Applying this to the reader is gooblygook. Paul is talking about an expansion of God's mercy but calvinist thinking turns it upside down.
This is the question Paul's is getting to: How is salvation gained?

30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

Israel on the whole thought they were God's chosen and could be saved merely by keeping the law. Paul has come to realize that salvation is not and never was obtained this way.
It's not about whether we have free will or not.

 

[Renniks]

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Not.

 

[Scott Downey]

Another verse confirming you can still choose even if you are a slave to sin. You aren't so bound you have no free will whatsoever.

No, this is a matter of the heart.

The New Covenant is described thusly, how it works from v10 onwards. v10 comes first, God puts His laws in their minds, and writes His laws onto their hearts, after which they are His people and He their God, and they all know Him. So the action is God changing their hearts first, only after that they shall be my people. Agrees exacty with Ephesians 2 and many other scriptures. God does this for His own sake, and not our own. I take that to show that He is in control of who is saved, due to His calling on us, as it says Jacob I loved, and Esau I hated, before they had done anything good or bad. So His sake not our sakes, He calls people according to His purpose of Election for them will come to pass, as salvation is not of works but is of Him who calls. So God is making the decision of who is saved and who is not saved, and not any man.

Romans 9
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”
13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Hebrews 8 A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” (God will not recall them to the Day of Judgement as in death for sin, we are still to be judged on our deeds)

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Ezekiel 26, also shows how this New Covenant works, God does the cleansing and gives to His people a new heart and a new spirit.
And some of this is still in the future for Israel, and the millennial reign.

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you.

30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations.
31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations.
32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it.”

37 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock. 38 Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”

Flocks as in flocks of SHEEP.

When any reject this, they reject what God has done for His own sake. Not a good place to find oneself.

 

[Kermos]

He said that to the twelve disciples...

This post is another one of a series proclaiming many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

LORD JESUS' PRAYER FOR US BELIEVERS

Part of the prayer of Lord Jesus during the supper is thus "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).

Jesus said "through their word" (John 17:20) which means that "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) are words that the Apostle John recorded. John recorded the Word of God, and the Word of God says "for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), and He preceded these words with "I do not ask on behalf of these alone" (John 17:20), so the Word of God during the supper is not just for the people in the room, but the Word of God during the supper is for all believers in all time.

Thus, belief in Jesus through the Apostle John's words includes the Lord Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19which are all part of the "through" John's "word" (John 17:20) which Jesus referred to in His prayer.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Lord Jesus Christ died exclusively to save all the persons whom Christ chooses.

 

[Kermos]

Ok? I wasn't there. You weren't there. Jesus chose these men to be with him quite literally while on this earth. Nothing whatsoever to do with salvation.

You wrote "He said that to the twelve disciples", and this scriptural post proved that you lied because Matthias and Joseph were there.

As a liar, you are an unreliable source for the spiritual meaning, even to yourself, of John chapters 13 to 17, Acts 1:21-23, and Acts 1:13, and the series of posts show with absolute spiritual certainty that Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

 

[Kermos]

Where do you come up with these absurd conclusions? No!... they were Superior because God chose them to start his church out of everybody he could have chosen.
Chosing Jesus doesn't make you or me superior to anyone.

Lord Jesus says unconditionally "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), so salvation is included!

You claim that you chose Jesus.

Therefore, you claim to have greater facility than the Apostles, you even claim to be master over Jesus forcing Jesus to save you in your purported choosing of Jesus.

 

[Renniks]

The New Covenant is described thusly, how it works from v10 onwards. v10 comes first, God puts His laws in their minds, and writes His laws onto their hearts, after which they are His people and He their God, and they all know Him. So the action is God changing their hearts first, only after that they shall be my people. Agrees exacty with Ephesians 2 and many other scriptures. God does this for His own sake, and not our own. I take that to show that He is in control of who is saved, due to His calling on us, as it says Jacob I loved, and Esau I hated, before they had done anything good or bad. So His sake not our sakes, He calls people according to His purpose of Election for them will come to pass, as salvation is not of works but is of Him who calls. So God is making the decision of

Only you misunderstood what he means about Esau and Jacob. We don't know if Esau was saved in the end or not. He chose Jacob for a job not for salvation and " hate" here is just to prefer one over another. Jesus said we have to " hate" our family. Well that isn't literally hate else Jesus could not also tell us to love others. It only means to love God more than our family.
God calls everyone to salvation, not all respond.
The election spoken of in the Calvinists favorite chapter isn't election to salvation but that Israel was the chosen Nation.

 

[Kermos]

In your theology there are no self willed people. Only those God chooses and those he doesn't. If there's no free will no one has any self determination so you are just doing what you are programmed to do. In fact there's no good or evil in your theology because no one can make a choice. We just are what God causes us to be. Robots basically.

You lie again.

I have told you that you and people like you are self willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) for your reviling of Majesty on High by way of your purported choosing of Majesty on High. You deny the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

 

[Renniks]

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”
13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

"Now these are the records of the generations of Isaac, Abraham’s son: Abraham fathered Isaac; and Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel the Aramean of Paddan-aram, the sister of Laban the Aramean, to be his wife. Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him, and his wife Rebekah conceived. But the children struggled together within her; and she said, “If it is so, why am I like this?” So she went to inquire of the LORD. And the LORD said to her,

“Two nations are in your womb; and two peoples will be separated from your body;
and one people will be stronger than the other; and the older will serve the younger.”

When her days leading to the delivery were at an end, behold, there were twins in her womb. Now the first came out red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. Afterward his brother came out with his hand holding on to Esau’s heel, so he was named Jacob; and Isaac was sixty years old when she gave birth to them."
Genesis 25:19–26

Nothing to do with salvation.

 

[Renniks]

When any reject this, they reject what God has done for His own sake. Not a good place to find oneself.

What exactly are you talking about being rejected?

 

[Renniks]

You wrote "He said that to the twelve disciples", and this scriptural post proved that you lied because Matthias and Joseph were there.

As a liar, you are an unreliable source for the spiritual meaning, even to yourself, of John chapters 13 to 17, Acts 1:21-23, and Acts 1:13, and the series of posts show with absolute spiritual certainty that Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Oh good grief. Strain at gnats much?

 

[Renniks]

Lord Jesus says unconditionally "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), so salvation is included!

You claim that you chose Jesus.

Therefore, you claim to have greater facility than the Apostles, you even claim to be master over Jesus forcing Jesus to save you in your purported choosing of Jesus.

Hogwash. You are just making stuff up. Quit embarrassing yourself.

 

[Renniks]

You lie again.

I have told you that you and people like you are self willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) for your reviling of Majesty on High by way of your purported choosing of Majesty on High. You deny the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Impossible in your theology. You don't even understand Calvinism.

Free will is nonsense (Spurgeon, Free Will a Slave, 3).

Free will is the invention of man, instigated by the devil (David Wilmoth, The Baptist Examiner, September 16, 1989, 5).

Free will makes man his own savior and his own god (Tom Ross, Abandoned Truth, 56).

The heresy of free will dethrones God and enthrones man. … The ideas of free grace and free will are diametrically opposed. All who are strict advocates of free will are strangers to the grace of the sovereign God (W. E. Best, Free Grace Versus Free Will, 35, 43).

To affirm that [man] is a free moral agent is to deny that he is totally depraved (Pink, Sovereignty of God, 138).

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim I have any capacity to talk back to God in any sense if you deny free will exists.

 

[Kermos]

No, this verse is about rebellious Israel. And God still gave them mercy. They were prepared for destruction because of their actions BTW. Applying this to the reader is gooblygook. Paul is talking about an expansion of God's mercy but calvinist thinking turns it upside down.
This is the question Paul's is getting to: How is salvation gained?

30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

Israel on the whole thought they were God's chosen and could be saved merely by keeping the law. Paul has come to realize that salvation is not and never was obtained this way.
It's not about whether we have free will or not.

In your heart, you wickedly subtract Romans 9:24, so you do not understand the spiritual matters that Paul explains.

Christian teaching by Paul inspired by the Spirit is that Paul addresses Israel and Gentiles in Romans 9, even the passage we have been focusing.

Carefully read the passage, and see the last verse indicates that Gentiles are INCLUDED.

18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?”

20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?

21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

(Romans 9:18-24)

A person claiming free will is a vessel of wrath prepared for destruction.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Lord Jesus Christ died exclusively to save all the vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory.

 

[Renniks]

Carefully read the passage, and see the last verse indicates that Gentiles are INCLUDED.

Right. That's the whole point. Everyone is included. Because salvation is by faith not birth or works.

 

[Kermos]

Not.

You wrote "He said that to the twelve disciples", and this scriptural post proved that you lied because Lord Jesus prophesies and declares the Holy Spirit Indwelling believers in Jesus thus "you" in John 14-17 includes all believers in Jesus in all time.

As a liar, you are an unreliable source for the spiritual meaning, even to yourself, of John chapters 13 to 17, Acts 1:12-15, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 10:44, Acts 11:1-18, and Acts 1:4-5, and the series of posts show with absolute spiritual certainty that Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).