"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, if you look at it in the greater context of all who are to be saved, then it is what Jesus said, that we must also be born again.

But the parable was not addressed with regard to those who would come to the Son, but to those who should return to the Father.

See the difference?

As I said, I lived it, I was a prodigal son. And I know a few other people who were prodigal children.

Our lives almost word for word resembled what jesus said

We left.

We came to the end of our rope. Because the love of God which filled the hole left in all mankind when they left God. Was opened again. And we tried to fill it ourselves with failure

This brings us back.

So while I sort of see what your saying, I can not agree with you.

A non believer is not a child of God. They were not born a child of God they were not made a child of God

Being born again is being made a child of God.

The child was already a child of the father. So he could not have been lost.

I hope you can see this and why I can not see it your way

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus said it Cooper.
Read The Prodigal Son carefully.

If a person is saved and falls away from the faith and then week or years later is sorry and returns to the faith...
don't you think God would take him back?

According to hebrews. No

They can not be renewed to repentance. For they crucify for themselves the son of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Both you and @ScottA need to read Luke 15:24

Do you suppose you know this parable and its teaching better than Jesus did?
Here's what Jesus stated:

For this son of mine was dead, and has come to life AGAIN, he was lost, and has been found.

Do we all know what AGAIN means?
Something is happening now...that was already happening even before.

Lol

You need to determine what DEAD MEANS

I was dead for 5 years.

But I did not stop being the fathers son.

For someone who has not experienced it. Maybe it is hard to explain. But I am telling you

The son did not lose his sonship. His fathers blood still flowed through his veins..

 

[BarneyFife]

This was referring to the Jews themselves who denied Jesus was the Messiah.

But you cannot deny that the Jews were SUPPOSED to kill Jesus...
He was SUPPOSED to die...
He told the Apostles He was going to die before he did.
Matthew 16:21
Matthew 17:22-23

Something about the word "supposed" bothers me. I'm just thinking out loud here. I like the word "foreordained" better. :):):);););):cool::cool::cool:

 

[GodsGrace]

The son was still the son

He was lost (he was in the world and lost the access to his fathers blessing)

And he was saved again (he returned and again had acces to his fathers blessings.

But he was still the son.

Did you know that the first son received 2/3 of the inheritance at the time of Jesus?
The father had given the son his inheritance before he left.
He squandered the money.
He squandered his inheritance and would receive no more.

You admit the son was saved AGAIN.
This is an important word here.
This parable also speaks FOR conditional security....spoken by Jesus Himself.

Our salvation is based on Gods promise, not our ability, not on our work, and not on anything we can offer God. We can only offer God filthy rags.

God offers us eternal life. And he stated clearly. Whoever eats that bread will never die.

Does a person who stops believing still eat of that bread?
As you've said, He stated clearly that whoever EATS (present tense) of the bread will never die.
Some persons stop eating of the bread.

And our work is not filthy rags to God.

How many verses do you require?
Check it out:
What Does the Bible Say About Doing Good-deed?

We can tell a person they will never die, if there is a chance they will die, that makes us a liar.

If God says a person will never die, and they end up dieing, God himself is a liar.

Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

My faith is based on this hope. If I do not have this hope. I can claim my faith is strong all I want, I am deceived.

My justification is also based on this hope

Titus 3:7
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal

It is the promise that God has given it to us

1 John 2:25
And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life

I have the testimony, that God has given me that life

1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son

And my continiued faith is based on the fact, I KNOW I have eternal life

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God

I have a God who made a promise, I have a God who can not lie, I have a God who keeps his promise. And I have a God who made this promise before time began, It can;t be broken, not be me or by anyone else. it is Gods character which is at stake. Not mine.

Agreed.
Look at what all your verses above state:
1 John 5:11 THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON....IN THE SON....WE MUST BE IN CHRIST.

1 John 5:13 THAT YOU MAY CONTINUE TO BELIEVE....CONTINUE TO BELIEVE...
BELIEF = salvation
UNBELIEF = no salvation (no matter when that unbelief occurs).

Titus 3:7 Check out also
Titus 3:8
8This is a trustworthy saying, and I want you to insist on these teachings so that all who trust in God will devote themselves to doing good. These teachings are good and beneficial for everyone.
Those who TRUST IN GOD....those who fall away are NOT trusting in God.

Titus 1:2 Same...check out Titus 1:1 - we must be Godly....are those that have fallen away Godly?

I think you take verses out of context?

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus said it Cooper.
Read The Prodigal Son carefully.

If a person is saved and falls away from the faith and then week or years later is sorry and returns to the faith...
don't you think God would take him back?

Matthew 19:11 KJV: But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

It is revealed here:

Luke 15:31 KJV: And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

It's subtle but it's there. :)

 

[Christ4Me]

There are many factors that result in the anxiety that fuels the tendency of many to resort to belief in Eternal Security. One is actually perpetuated by those on the other side of the argument. And that is that if Eternal Security is not, in fact, the way of God's managing the relationships between believers and Himself, then it must be that people slip into and out of a saving relationship with Christ constantly

Think of it rather as a reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ for which running that race is for abiding in Him to bear fruit as His disciples so our joy may be full.

Falling in and out of a saving relationship can be misleading and thus inaccurate when it is about disciplehsip rather than obtaining salvation which was already obtained for why believers are even in that race.

, due to a ledger that's being kept by heavenly intelligences who have been directed to watch carefully for the chance to catch us off guard and exclude us from the redeemed, while we navigate situations that might take our lives, thus making it possible for us to die without Christ's propitiation intact in/for us. (How's that for a run-on sentence?)

We have been sanctified forever meaning that foundation laid by Jesus Christ is not going anywhere and neither is that seal of adoption, but what we build on that foundation will be judged per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 and the consequences thereof is to be denied by Him when the Bridegroom comes for not being ready as found abiding in Him John 15:1-8 & Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25

But this is all misguided for at least two reasons:

1. Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), He will be faithful to complete the good work He has begun in us (Philippians 1:6), He is able to keep us from falling (Jude 1:24), He only is our Rock, salvation, and defense, making us unmovable (Psalm 62:2), (the Bible is replete with promises like this);
   
2. If all this be true, how can we believe He would allow us to fall between the cracks of circumstance, forgetting the love He has awakened in us for Him?

God will judge His House first per 1 Peter 4:17 at the rapture event; for why we labour to be accepted by Him 2 Corinthians 5:7-11

Not every saved believer will continue in His words to abide in Him living as His disciples. He warned us in the parable of the Sower as the three out of the four did receive the seed, as one did not ( unbelievers ) , that the two out of three did not produce fruits but one did.

Faith in Him in being our Good Shepherd & Friend has to be applied in running that ace just as it was on Him as our Savior at the calling of the gospel for why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith.

But no believer can expect to bear fruit when they set their relationship on a mantle and live their lives in the world making the cares of this life their focus rather than their reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ while living in this world.

2 Peter 3:9 KJV: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This Book we all claim to believe in called the Bible is entirely made up of utterings that contain the ultimate in creative power. We may safely appropriate it to ourselves at all times along the progress of our pilgrim journey here in this earth which is not our home.

Yet the Bible clearly displays the possibility of falling away. The verses and passages that teach this have been quoted thousands of times and summarily rejected as evidence.

We are saved and yet we are to live a life of repentance in daily walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Eternal Security is nothing more than misapplied, counterfeit assurance. It doesn't even agree with itself. To which version of it shall we subscribe? The one that says if we become like an infidel, then we were never "saved" to begin with? Or the one that claims that no matter our salacious behavior, if we have accepted Christ we are yet "saved?"

If I have to depend upon my sincerity when I first believed in Christ, I have nothing to assure me, and I must constantly renew/shift my origin of "salvation," hoping I don't die during a lapse of consecration.

And if I am ultimately "saved" as a virtual heathen, I will be sentenced to an eternity of fellowship with a God and people with whom I have nothing in common, for the Bible nowhere teaches that our characters will be changed when we are glorified.

If we read the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1-13, do note how that ten virgins IS the kingdom of heaven in verse 1, but because five were foolish and out to the market seeking to be filled with oil, they missed out on the Marriage Supper with the Bridegroom for not being ready as found abiding in Him, but they were and still are in that kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

According to hebrews. No

They can not be renewed to repentance. For they crucify for themselves the son of God.

wrong. OSAS is Biblical. And while EVERY christian backslides at some point, while some fall in sin, God never allows those who are genuinely saved to completely fall away.

as far as Hebrews, i assume you’re talking about 10:26, “If Christ’s sacrifice is rejected, then all hope of salvation is gone. To turn away willfully from this sacrifice leaves no sacrifice; it leaves only sin, the penalty for which is eternal death. This passage is not speaking of a believer who falls away, but rather someone who may claim to be a believer, but truly is not. Anyone who apostatizes is proving he never had genuine faith to begin with (1 John 2:19).”

 

[GodsGrace]

Which ones do you want?

John 3? John 4? John 5? John 6? The ones I already posted from 1 John?

I think we're in a theology thread.
It would be nice if you posted scripture to support your statements.
Many times you don't do that and it's a waste of time to post what we believe to be true without scripture.

 

[Christ4Me]

Preaching to the choir? :)

Just confirming the word with you, brother.:) May God cause the increase.

 

[GodsGrace]

I did answer that

Not everyone who was reading that passage had true living faith. The ones that do not will stop continuing, because their faith has no substance, and they have not been made new in christ.

The ony way we can lose salvation is if we have to earn it,

The only way we can earn it is if we could pay for our own sin.

If this is the case, Christ died in vein,

The only other way we can lose it is if christ death did not cover all sin.

Either way, if salvation can be lost. We are in serious trouble, because no one can live up to Gods standard. So no one would be saved.

No one has to live up to God's standards.
We're saved because of our faith.

Who was Paul speaking to in Colossians 2?
He says (in caps for ease)
ALTHOUTH YOU WERE FORMERLY ALIENATED AND HOSTILE...

He's speaking to born again Christian...to believers in Jesus.
YET HE HAS NOW RECONCILED YOU...again believers are reconciled.

HE (JESUS) WILL PRESENT US HOLY TO GOD IF INDEED WE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH....

Sorry for all the caps...but you see...
Paul was speaking to believers and exhorting them to CONTINUE in the faith...

 

[GodsGrace]

Yep

When will you come to God in faith and recieve the eternal life he came to give you. And accept that those who recieve it will never die?

Right.
Those WITH FAITH have eternal life.

John 11:25-26
25Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life.e Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying.
26Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?”

Believes
Lives
Believes

Always present tense.

 

[GodsGrace]

According to hebrews. No

They can not be renewed to repentance. For they crucify for themselves the son of God.

Oh for goodness sakes EG...
Speak of legalism and works!

Have you noticed that I NEVER post Hebrews 6 which, BTW, states one can forfeit their salvation.
Do you know why?
Because it's not speaking about this subject matter.
Read it again paying attention to whom it is written and why...which would include some history (very little)
or as some call it hermeneutics.

 

[BarneyFife]

It means Christ completed all that He came to do.

So He didn't come to be buried, resurrected, glorified, breathe on His disciples to give them the Holy Ghost, resurrect the firstfruits, ascend to Heaven, etc., etc.?

1 Corinthians 15:17 KJV: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:18 KJV: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1 Corinthians 15:19 KJV: If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
​

Nowhere in the Bible is it taught that in Christ's crucifixion He completed "all that He came to do." Man-made doctrine.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did you know that the first son received 2/3 of the inheritance at the time of Jesus?
The father had given the son his inheritance before he left.
He squandered the money.
He squandered his inheritance and would receive no more.

he was still the son, He is like those who will recieve wood hay and straw. Their works are burnt up, they squandered their inheritance, But they are still saved even as through fire.

Hs fathers blood (which made him a son to begin with) was stil flowing in him. ‘

You admit the son was saved AGAIN.
This is an important word here.
This parable also speaks FOR conditional security....spoken by Jesus Himself.

He was, His life could now be blessed again, eternal salvation is not the contest here

There is no such thing as conditional security. That is not security at all. Anyone who trusts in themselves is not secure.

Does a person who stops believing still eat of that bread?
As you've said, He stated clearly that whoever EATS (present tense) of the bread will never die.
Some persons stop eating of the bread.

Why would jesus speak of a food which ENDURES to ETERNAL KIFE, and seperates it from the manna, a food which the jews ATE CONTINUALLY.

And then tell us we have to continue to eat it.

He said whoever eats will never hunger, whoever drinks will never thirst.

Its like the water in John 4. Where jesus told the woman if she would have asked, he would have given to er living water flowing to eternal life.

Same context. Same meaning

You do not keep eating, if you do there is no security at all. Your depending on yourself and your work and your ability

And our work is not filthy rags to God.

Excuse me sir, but if your working to earn, maintain or keep from losing salvation, it Mose certainly is filthy rags. Because your trying to offer God your work of righteousness as payment for sin

How many verses do you require?
Check it out:
What Does the Bible Say About Doing Good-deed?



Agreed.
Look at what all your verses above state:
1 John 5:11 THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON....IN THE SON....WE MUST BE IN CHRIST.

1 John 5:13 THAT YOU MAY CONTINUE TO BELIEVE....CONTINUE TO BELIEVE...
BELIEF = salvation
UNBELIEF = no salvation (no matter when that unbelief occurs).

Titus 3:7 Check out also
Titus 3:8
8This is a trustworthy saying, and I want you to insist on these teachings so that all who trust in God will devote themselves to doing good. These teachings are good and beneficial for everyone.
Those who TRUST IN GOD....those who fall away are NOT trusting in God.

Titus 1:2 Same...check out Titus 1:1 - we must be Godly....are those that have fallen away Godly?

I think you take verses out of context?

That we may continue to believe. How?

KNOWING WE HAVE (PRESENT ENSE) ETERNAL LIFE.

If I have eternal life. I CN NEVER DIE.

If I can die, I DO NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

Please look up the word eternal. It seems you are lost as to what it means

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh for goodness sakes EG...
Speak of legalism and works!

Have you noticed that I NEVER post Hebrews 6 which, BTW, states one can forfeit their salvation.
Do you know why?
Because it's not speaking about this subject matter.
Read it again paying attention to whom it is written and why...which would include some history (very little)
or as some call it hermeneutics.

Lol

I do not know how you interpret the word. But you have some serious issues.

Hebrews most certainly is talking about losing salvation

IF THEY FALL AWAY,

If it were possible. The jew, according to the law. Believed one could lose their eternal destiny by falling into sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Something about the word "supposed" bothers me. I'm just thinking out loud here. I like the word "foreordained" better. :):):);););):cool::cool::cool:

Foreordained is good for me.
I just hope you don't mean predestinated...


(since I agree with you so much).

 

[GodsGrace]

Lol

I do not know how you interpret the word. But you have some serious issues.

Hebrews most certainly is talking about losing salvation

IF THEY FALL AWAY,

If it were possible. The jew, according to the law. Believed one could lose their eternal destiny by falling into sin.

So now you DO believe salvation can be lost?

 

[Cooper]

Jesus said it Cooper.
Read The Prodigal Son carefully.

If a person is saved and falls away from the faith and then week or years later is sorry and returns to the faith...
don't you think God would take him back?

Can we be born again of the flesh? No. Can we be born again of the Holy Spirit? No. Can we be saved from our sins by the blood of Jesus twice? No. Can we commit the unforgivable sin and be forgiven? No.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2Pe 2:20-21)

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

The prodigal son was a lost sheep who committed no wrong against his father. His father never banished him. He went into the world, and the pleasures thereof, but then returned to his father, who welcomed him back with open arms. This is the security of the believer, who although they may wander from the fold into pastures new, will never break, divorce, or otherwise separate from the father. They are secure in the arms of Jesus.
.

 

[Christ4Me]

According to hebrews. No

They can not be renewed to repentance. For they crucify for themselves the son of God.

@Lifelong_sinner @Cooper @GodsGrace

Actually, those verses were talking about why there is no need for a saved believer to go through all that again should they fall away.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

There is no need to go through all that again boldened in the red, because it is impossible, meaning there is no need for repeating that again for that would be like crucifying Him all over again. Thus seeing how that is impossible, there is no need for believers to go through that again in the red, but to go on to perfection.

Below shows the necessity of going unto perfection after life has been received into the ground and cannot be undone, but what we sow towards will be judged; to the works of the flesh, then it gets burned, but life as in the water, still has been received into the ground.

But for those that used that water for sowing to the fruits of the Spirit and not to the works of the flesh, bears the herbs thereof.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

If you compare the consequence for defiling the temple of God for what we build on that foundation, whereby physical death is incurred ( 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ), but the spirit is saved ( 1 Corinthians 3:15 ) even though left behind in that day of fire ( Luke 12:40-49 & 1 Corinthians 3:13 ). That is why their spirits are with the Lord under the altar Revelation 6:9-11 awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation Revelation 7:9-17 to serve the King of kings on earth in His thousand year reign Revelation 20:1-6

So what we build on that foundation will be judged 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 just as what we used that water for that was received in the earth; weeds or herbs? Hebrews 6:7-8