"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[GodsGrace]

If you want to discount the cross and all that Jesus did, that is your business. But that is what is erroneous, for He is the Author and Finisher: It is finished. He said so...and you have said nothing but speak against Him.

What does IT IS FINISHED mean?
What is finished?

 

[GodsGrace]

You can’t have ETERNAL LIFE unless it is eternal.

A person who comes to the point of believing, is given eternal life. And promised he will never die.

Either God meant it. Or God lied.
Now why would you want to make God a liar by saying a person can still possibly die and has conditional life?

You are justified and positionally sanctified the moment of salvation

Conditional sanctification is lifelong.

By one offering he has perfected forever those who are BEING sanctified.


You may have left the CC, sadly you still believe in their lie

True faith causes obedience But no one will obey perfectly. We will nt do this until we get to heaven.

Sadly NOSAS was thought in the NT. Paul wrote most of his epistles trying to fight that false gospel. Satan however took it and strengthened it by mixing the lie with truth. Its how he has worked from the begining, and it still works.

People never learn from history.

How about posting some scripture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Still the son, but not reborn of the Spirit.

The father represents God

So not sure why he has to be reborn. He is already a son of the father

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does IT IS FINISHED mean?
What is finished?

Actually in the greek the word means literally “paid in full” or accomplished.

It was a judicial term in rome in that day, when a person had paid their debt for a crime that had commited. They had a card that was stamped “tetelestai” paid in full. That person could not be punished again for that crime, his debt was paid in full finished

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How about posting some scripture?

Which ones do you want?

John 3? John 4? John 5? John 6? The ones I already posted from 1 John?

 

[ScottA]

What does IT IS FINISHED mean?
What is finished?

It means Christ completed all that He came to do.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The point I was making, is that Adam was also a son of God, but all who are born of the flesh like Adam are not saved until Christ, and must be born again of the Spirit.

Sorry I cant agree with you. That passage is not about a person comming to Christ. It is more about the way the child who stayed got angry when the lost child came home and the father treated him as if he never left.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're basically saying you don't care for the inspired text and that you'd rather place your trust in flawed translations that were given to us by uninspired and opinionated scholars who didn't even place the books in the order God inspired them to be in.

Whom should I put my trust in?
Strong's Greek Lexicon?
That is inspired then?

Are you saying God speaks Greek?

If you acknowledge the fact that translators have rendered the inspired text "to the best of their ability", then it's a tacit admission on your part that they shouldn't be completely trusted. The only text that should be completely trusted is the original Hebrew and Greek since they're the only 2 languages God inspired the scriptures to be written in. You need to be extremely careful about what you're saying. When everybody has to stand before Christ in judgement, they're not going to be judged by what translated bibles say. They're going to be judged by the Hebrew and Greek text that God inspired.

Are you saying I have to know Greek to be saved?
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING??
This is nonsense and I will not continue this conversation after this post.

We will be judged by the life we lead.
No matter in what language we read God's word...
OR, in what language we HEARD it, as is stated in
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

It does not state a language.
I would also refer you to
Acts 2:6
6And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.

In his final epistle, Paul told Timothy that everybody in Asia Minor had abandoned what they were taught(2 Tim. 1:15). In Paul's farewell speech to the Ephesus ministers, he prophesied that at least some of them would become Satan's agents(Acts 20:29-30). These were truly converted Christians that knew God!
In Rom. 1:5-8, Paul makes it absolutely clear that the letter's audience was Christians in Rome:

"Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

You're not taking your own advice when it comes to rightly dividing what the Bible says.

I agree with your statements above.
What advice of my own am I not taking?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with what you've said.

But you haven't replied to Colossians 1:21-23 which states that we will be presented before God holy..
IF WE CONTINUE in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and NOT MOVED AWAY from the gospel of hope.

We must go by what is written in the N.T. by either Jesus or those who knew Him...
Our own ideas are meaningless.

The reason I bring up John and gnosticism is because some will point to him saying that THEY LEFT BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT OF US...
to confirm the idea that those that leave were never saved to begin with.

The N.T. attests to the fact that one CAN fall away and forfeit their salvation.

I did answer that

Not everyone who was reading that passage had true living faith. The ones that do not will stop continuing, because their faith has no substance, and they have not been made new in christ.

The ony way we can lose salvation is if we have to earn it,

The only way we can earn it is if we could pay for our own sin.

If this is the case, Christ died in vein,

The only other way we can lose it is if christ death did not cover all sin.

Either way, if salvation can be lost. We are in serious trouble, because no one can live up to Gods standard. So no one would be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This was referring to the Jews themselves who denied Jesus was the Messiah.

But you cannot deny that the Jews were SUPPOSED to kill Jesus...
He was SUPPOSED to die...
He told the Apostles He was going to die before he did.
Matthew 16:21
Matthew 17:22-23

No, The jews were not SUPPOSED TO KILL JESUS.

The romans were supposed to kill jesus,

Jesus would have died whether the jews recieved him or not.


Now your getting calvinistic on me

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree.
And you should stop bringing up works because I never do.

As to filthy rags...that verse is used so incorrectly -
God DOES want our works (after salvation).
But that's another thread and I won't get into it here.

When you claim salvation can be lost

You claim works

If you can lose it. You must work to keep it or to keep from losing it.

I will stop bringing up works. When you start acknowledging that eternal life is eternal. Not conditional.

 

[Cooper]

WRONG! Faith IS a GIFT by grace that is GIVEN from above, unless you BOAST. Ephesians 2:8-9.

What kind of a salvation for God to give then take it away? Is God an Indian-giver?

In fact Jesus said,: I give you eternal life! What do you suppose eternal mean in any language??? If ti's eternal how can anyone lose it? IMPOSSIBLE!

Study your Bible for it is the only Book of truth! It can save you.

To God Be The Glory

Of course Grace is a gift given by God for all time. God does not take his gift away. God is unchanging. It is the backslider who perhaps commits the unforgivable sin by blaspheming the Holy Spirit and turns away from God to the things of earth. Such a person is not fit for the Kingdom of Heaven.
.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again with the works...

Yep

When will you come to God in faith and recieve the eternal life he came to give you. And accept that those who recieve it will never die?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, ALREADY SAID; a man MUST DIE Before he CAN BE SAVED.
Yes, A man MUST believe AT his DEATH to be saved.

No, a man is NOT saved, then can UNDO “received” Salvation.

A man SAVED while ALIVE IN HIS FLESH...DOES DIE..
He is CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST!
He becomes SAV-ED.
He is KEPT SAVED....By the Power of God.....IN him.
KEPT SAVED...BY GODS POWER...
He can NEVER become UNSAVED. Once SAVED...SAVED forever.

A man WHO ENDURES....is SAVED after his physical Death.
WHY?
BECAUSE he ENDURED....<—- CONTINUED TO “BeLIeVe” until his death.
ENDURING, is the man KEEPING IN BELIEF...(NOT saved)...WILL BE SAVED “IF” he keeps believing.
WHO KEEPS this man BELIEVING....the power OF THE MAN...NOT GODS Power.

Already covered this.

Who keeps the man believing?
I guess we'd have to discuss free will.

Once a person is saved...do they lose their free will?
I can't abandon God if I become angry with Him or decide He doesn't really exist
for one reason or another?

He keeps me saved even if I don't wish to be saved?
Sounds a little calvinistic.

 

[GodsGrace]

How I KNOW? Scripture.

1. Jesus’ told his disciples that would happen after Jesus returned to Heaven.
2. After Jesus’ returned to Heaven. His disciples received the HS.
3. Receiving the HS IN a person, IS being Baptized with the HS, and SAVED.

(1) Jesus tells them.
John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John.16
[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

(2) Jesus returns to heaven.
Luke 24:
[50] And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
[51] And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
[52] And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great

(3) Disciples receive their Salvation; the Baptism of HS IN them.
Acts 1:
[13] And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
[14] These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
[15] And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty)

Acts 2:
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost...

Good verse.
But where does it state the Apostles were not saved BEFORE Jesus ascended?
You mean if one of the Apostles died before the ascension they would not have been saved?

Do you believe a person that comes to have faith in Jesus is not saved UNTIL he is baptized either by water or the Holy Spirit?

 

[ScottA]

The father represents God

So not sure why he has to be reborn. He is already a son of the father

Well, if you look at it in the greater context of all who are to be saved, then it is what Jesus said, that we must also be born again.

But the parable was not addressed with regard to those who would come to the Son, but to those who should return to the Father.

See the difference?

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not sure if someone can be born again, again.

Jesus said it Cooper.
Read The Prodigal Son carefully.

If a person is saved and falls away from the faith and then week or years later is sorry and returns to the faith...
don't you think God would take him back?

 

[BarneyFife]

No one said anything about man made doctrines

I did, and I was referring to Eternal Security. :)

The parable simply doesn't go into spiritual rebirth

Really?

Luke 15:17 KJV: And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luke 15:18 KJV: I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luke 15:19 KJV: And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.​

That is because the parable was addressed to Israel, not the gentiles.

Are we off on a dispensationalism tangent now?

Your comments are simply out of context.

Really?
Christ was amazed that the Pharisee leader Nicodemus didn't understand conversion:

John 3:7 KJV: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:9 KJV: Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
John 3:10 KJV: Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?​

I'm just following your lead on the dispensationalism tangent here.

Your game, not mine.

Retaliatory comments are preferable to out-of-context comments, I guess. :)

 

[GodsGrace]

Your right, he was not saved again,

He was always his fathers son, He never lost salvation.

Both you and @ScottA need to read Luke 15:24

Do you suppose you know this parable and its teaching better than Jesus did?
Here's what Jesus stated:

For this son of mine was dead, and has come to life AGAIN, he was lost, and has been found.

Do we all know what AGAIN means?
Something is happening now...that was already happening even before.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry I cant agree with you. That passage is not about a person comming to Christ. It is more about the way the child who stayed got angry when the lost child came home and the father treated him as if he never left.

I agree.
It depends on what context you may want to apply it to. And anyway that is getting off on a tangent which I did not think was on topic.

It means discussing the difference between salvation of the house of Israel, and the gentiles...which some are confusing.