The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[brightfame52]

Christ didn't die to save or redeem all people, but He died to redeem and actually save a chosen people. The Fathers Election and the Sons Redemptive death and Spirits application are of the same proportion Lets look at 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

All Three are here present in the Salvation Work, the Election of the Father, the Blood of the Son, and the Application of the Spirit.67

Note: The Sprinkling of Blood is obviously to be done because its was shed, for it to be applied !

He was to die, and give eternal life, only to as many as the Father gave Him Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The Fathers Election, the Sons Redemption, and the Spirits application are discerned here.

Heres how. The Elect are the ones the Father gives to Christ, of course He is to die for them, and to them He gives Eternal life, which is accomplished by the Spirits application of spiritual life, out of Christs death.

 

[Kermos]

You are shortsighted Kermos. You do not see that you attributed the word 'prattle' to John 3:21 when in fact I did not attribute it to that text but you did. You attempted to put words in my mouth. See post #2836

Let's take a little longer look back, not like your short-sighted look back to post #2836, but a deeper retrospective, far-sighted review to post #2830 that you so ineloquently called of the Word of God prattle.

@quietthinker, the "come" in your quotation of 'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' is constrained by this quote of Jesus, "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

The word "wrought" means forged, strong-armed, and manipulated, so a solid example is wrought iron.

Jesus is the Light, and the Light says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

A person "coming" to the "Light" is a deed.

Jesus says we believers deeds are "wrought in God".

A person "doing" the "Truth" is a deed.

Again, our deeds are "wrought in God".

Now, here, Lord Jesus constrains the population of people that comes to Jesus as exclusively persons whom God wrings forth the deeds/fruits.

 

[Kermos]

@quietthinker take a good, hard look in this thread at the many times you have rejected the clear teaching of the Word of God:

• you self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) eliminate context by claiming the word "world" in John 3:16 means everybody everywhere, yet Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:14-16 by contextually relating "people who looked at the bronze serpent" and "world" (post #2756)
• you self-servingly subtracted the specific population of people mentioned by the angels from scripture in Luke 2:10 because you exalt yourself over the unadulterated scripture (post #2768)
• you sinned openly by confessing that you chose Jesus despite His words of "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) being repeatedly proclaimed to you, and God had me proclaim to you the difference between a Holy Spirit fruit response and fleshly fruit response (post #2776)
• your gospel that Christ died for everyone everywhere without exception is not the gospel of Christ because your gospel results in a Christ abandoning those he died for to hell making him miserably weak (post #2797)
• you perform eisegesis just like you accused @brightfame52, so not only did you add to and/or subtract from scripture, but you made a hypocritical accusation while you deny "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 22:14) (post #2816)
• not only did you previously avoid this Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) along with "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), but you hypocritically apply short-sighted, proclaimed the Word a prattle, laughed at the Word, and a disagreed with the Word (post#2842)

 

[quietthinker]

@quietthinker take a good, hard look in this thread at the many times you have rejected the clear teaching of the Word of God:

• you self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) eliminate context by claiming the word "world" in John 3:16 means everybody everywhere, yet Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:14-16 by contextually relating "people who looked at the bronze serpent" and "world" (post #2756)
• you self-servingly subtracted the specific population of people mentioned by the angels from scripture in Luke 2:10 because you exalt yourself over the unadulterated scripture (post #2768)
• you sinned openly by confessing that you chose Jesus despite His words of "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) being repeatedly proclaimed to you, and God had me proclaim to you the difference between a Holy Spirit fruit response and fleshly fruit response (post #2776)
• your gospel that Christ died for everyone everywhere without exception is not the gospel of Christ because your gospel results in a Christ abandoning those he died for to hell making him miserably weak (post #2797)
• you perform eisegesis just like you accused @brightfame52, so not only did you add to and/or subtract from scripture, but you made a hypocritical accusation while you deny "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 22:14) (post #2816)
• not only did you previously avoid this Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) along with "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), but you hypocritically apply short-sighted, proclaimed the Word a prattle, laughed at the Word, and a disagreed with the Word (post#2842)

I reject all of your accusations as erroneous and as misrepresentation.

 

[Kermos]

I reject all of your accusations as erroneous and as misrepresentation.

@quietthinker, the bullet points below show a compare and contrast between "the Word of God" and "the word of @quietthinker" to illuminate the pinpoint accuracy of the post that God had me make to you:

• The Word of God
  "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16)
  
  The word of @quietthinker
  "the word 'world' or the expression 'in Adam' as Paul uses it it Romans 5:14-21 means all humanity."
  
  you self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) eliminate context by claiming the word "world" in John 3:16 means everybody everywhere, yet Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:14-16 by contextually relating "people who looked at the bronze serpent" and "world" (post #2756)
  .
• Angelic Voices
  "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people" (Luke 2:10).
  ...
  "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased" (Luke 2:14)
  
  The word of @quietthinker
  "This qualifies as Good News for all people just as the angels sang on Bethlehem's Hills. Luke 2:10"
  
  you self-servingly subtracted the specific population of people mentioned by the angels from scripture in Luke 2:10 because you exalt yourself over the unadulterated scripture (post #2768)
  .
• The Word of God
  "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)
  
  The word of @quietthinker
  "I have chosen him"
  
  you sinned openly by confessing that you chose Jesus despite His words of "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) being repeatedly proclaimed to you, and God had me proclaim to you the difference between a Holy Spirit fruit response and fleshly fruit response (post #2776)
  .
• The Word of God
  "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)
  ...
  "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." (John 10:27-28)
  
  The word of @quietthinker
  "save sinners?...does that mean all qualify or are some exempt from the classification?"
  
  your gospel that Christ died for everyone everywhere without exception is not the gospel of Christ because your gospel results in a Christ abandoning those he died for to hell making him miserably weak (post #2797)
  .
• The Word of God
  "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14)
  
  The word of @quietthinker
  "You are attempting to justify that some are chosen and others not. Isn't that your basic objective?.....it's called eisegesis"
  
  you perform eisegesis just like you accused @brightfame52, so not only did you add to and/or subtract from scripture, but you made a hypocritical accusation while you deny "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 22:14) (post #2816)
  .
• The Word of God
  "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
  ...
  "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)
  
  The word of @quietthinker
  "The fact that people will be lost does not mean Jesus hasn't given his life for them. Consider the term 'given his life' ....let it roll around in your mouth, savour it, suck on it and see if 'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' means immeasurably more than a God who selects only a few." (follow thread back a few posts)
  
  not only did you previously avoid this Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) along with "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), but you hypocritically apply short-sighted, proclaimed the Word a prattle, laughed at the Word, and a disagreed with the Word (post#2842)

God is Holy! Man is unclean (Isaiah 6:5), even unaware of Who God truly is (Luke 12:57, Ephesians 2:1-3). The unclean man cannot touch the clean God. God is the One Who cleanses man, and causes man even to be able to perceive the glorious King of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3-8).

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 8:33-34 indicates plainly that Christ died for the Elect !

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.68

 

[brightfame52]

The scriptural reality was that Christ went to the cross to redeem/save his people Matt 1:21 The ones he died for were a specifically named collection of people from before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-5

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

If you observe that the Scriptures are very clear in the use of words. In both verses we see the word “us” which means that we were chosen and predestinated before the foundation of the world. The limited word “us” shows us the Christ died for a specific aggregation of people and not everyone in the world. The false teaching of “Free Will” impresses the false belief that Christ died for everyone in the world but for a person to be saved they must accept Christ. and then they become save, until that time they remain unsaved. Thats not a biblical teaching for Christ did not die for everyone in the world but only those who were named and Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.

 

[Enoch111]

The ones he died for were a specifically named collection of people from before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-5

Those (who are believers) are included in the Scriptures which say that (1) the Lamb of God took away the sin of THE WORLD and (2) Christ tasted death FOR EVERY MAN.

Your false teaching about Limited Atonement will earn you some serious displeasure with God, who laid upon Christ "the iniquity of us all". Therefore He became a propitiation for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. And therefore Christ said that the world might be saved through Him (if all would repent and believe).

 

[brightfame52]

Those (who are believers) are included in the Scriptures which say that (1) the Lamb of God took away the sin of THE WORLD and (2) Christ tasted death FOR EVERY MAN.

Your false teaching about Limited Atonement will earn you some serious displeasure with God, who laid upon Christ "the iniquity of us all". Therefore He became a propitiation for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. And therefore Christ said that the world might be saved through Him (if all would repent and believe).

You seem to ignore the Truth witnessed to you.

 

[Enoch111]

You seem to ignore the Truth witnessed to you.

Right back at you.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

But, of course, since people aren't properly Labeled "ELECT", and "Firewood", the Evangelist has no choice but to see EVERY PERSON as potentially one that Jesus Died to atone for, and and who will be gifted by God with Saving FAITH.

So the whole "Limited Atonement" confusion is really just more "Religious word games". Paul became ALL THINGS to ALL MEN that he might win some.

 

[brightfame52]

Particular Salvation for the Children ! cont

Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Again these are the same Children that Christ came to Identify with and deliver from death in Heb 2:14 and that are the seed of Abraham in Vs 16 !

These are the Children or the seed God gave to Christ in Divine Election Eph 1:4, and they are also the same ones Jesus refers to here Jn 17:2,6

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Jesus says similar of His Sheep, "thou gavest them me" Jn 10:29

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

And as in the Heb 2 passage, He came to die for them, so likewise in Jn 17:19

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself or Die as an Offering, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

He came to sanctify Himself which means His Offering Himself and as The High priest to Offer Himself Upon the Altar of God's Judgment for them !

Now as Children given Him Heb 2:13, they are His Seed, those referred to here Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Thats the Pleasure of the Lord, to See His Seed saved and Converted because Christ was made an Offering for sin for them and them only !68

 

[brightfame52]

But, of course, since people aren't properly Labeled "ELECT", and "Firewood", the Evangelist has no choice but to see EVERY PERSON as potentially one that Jesus Died to atone for, and and who will be gifted by God with Saving FAITH.

So the whole "Limited Atonement" confusion is really just more "Religious word games". Paul became ALL THINGS to ALL MEN that he might win some.

Its no game to tell the truth about who Christ died for specifically.

 

[Scott Downey]

But, of course, since people aren't properly Labeled "ELECT", and "Firewood", the Evangelist has no choice but to see EVERY PERSON as potentially one that Jesus Died to atone for, and and who will be gifted by God with Saving FAITH.

So the whole "Limited Atonement" confusion is really just more "Religious word games". Paul became ALL THINGS to ALL MEN that he might win some.

True simply from a human POV, we do not have the mind of the Lord to know who He elected and who He did not elect. God only knows that.
But we have the evidence of their belief that gives us confidence they are elect as they believed the message. And that those who die unbelieving were not elect as they were sons of disobedience
The apostles doctrines say the same idea, like this in Hebrews 6, who showed the evidence of good fruit in their changed lives

9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

These above people's characteristics demonstrate their election by God.

John 6, recorded very clearly from the Divine POV is for our edification and knowledge of why things are as they are, along with many other scriptures that speak our being chosen for salvation. Which reason is all for our eternal consolation and comprehending such a great salvation and marvelous working of our God towards US.

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

1 Peter 2:7-8
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense.” They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

Ephesians 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Colossians 3:6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Its no game to tell the truth about who Christ died for specifically.

Of course nobody knows who's "Elect", and who'se not (until after the fact).

I'm Born again so obviously I'm "Elect".

A person who's NOT "Born Again" may be "FIREWOOD", OR may be elect, but not Born again YET. YOU don't know, people aren't properly labeled, so the "Theology of election" couldn't be less important. YOU (as an evangelist) have no choice but to treat ALL PEOPLE as "Elect", just like Paul did.

 

[Cassandra]

• The Word of God
  "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

Every Believing? Are you missing a word?

 

[Kermos]

Every Believing? Are you missing a word?

In John 3:16, the Greek word pas (Strong's 3956) translates accurately as "every" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous connotation of "whosoever" (KJV) or "whoever" (NASB).

 

[Enoch111]

YOU (as an evangelist) have no choice but to treat ALL PEOPLE as "Elect", just like Paul did.

This is why Spurgeon -- a Calvinistic Baptist -- preached exactly as though all his hearers could respond to the Gospel and be saved. The funny thing is that Calvinists are blind to their own blindness about this inconsistency.

 

[Enoch111]

Its no game to tell the truth about who Christ died for specifically.

The only thing is that your "truth" is a big lie. Even the arch Calvinist John Calvin -- with his own words and in his own commentaries -- refutes your nonsense. Check him out on Bible Hub. He always talks about the offer of salvation for the whole human race (which is Bible truth). So your position is in fact a big lie.

At the same time, he contradicts himself (and the Bible) in his Institutes. Which is rather dishonest.

 

[brightfame52]

Of course nobody knows who's "Elect", and who'se not (until after the fact).

I'm Born again so obviously I'm "Elect".

A person who's NOT "Born Again" may be "FIREWOOD", OR may be elect, but not Born again YET. YOU don't know, people aren't properly labeled, so the "Theology of election" couldn't be less important. YOU (as an evangelist) have no choice but to treat ALL PEOPLE as "Elect", just like Paul did.

You dont have to know who the elect are to state that God specifically sent Christ to die for them.