HERESY?

[Philip James]

c. Was raised in "in a different body" but just HOW different it does not say (as far as I have seen in scripture anyways)

Hello Moriah,

this is the point of contention. It is not a 'different body'. It is HIS human body, glorified,transformed made incorruptible, yet still the same body that was placed in the tomb, still that which was born of Mary, suffered, crucified ... still human!

To deny the resurrection of the body, is to depart from the Faith of the Apostles...

Merry Christmas!

 

[Moriah's Song]

...still that which was born of Mary, suffered, crucified ... still human!

PJ, you stop at Jesus being "crucified" but that is not the FULL story of that momentous event. You say nothing about the resurrection and what you think His resurrection body would be like.

In 2Co 3:18 we get a pretty good idea what the Christ' resurrected body would be like...."And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit."

Scripture also says that AFTER his resurrection, the Christ suddenly appeared to two men who were on their way to Emmaus just as Christ suddenly appered in the Upper Room even though the door was shut. How did he get there if he still had a human type body?

The following two verses tell us what happended when they arrived in Emmaus...

Luk 24:30...When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them.(Indication of "communion.")
Luk 24:31...And their eyes were opened and they recognized him; and he vanished out of their sight.​

How is it that the two men did not recognize Christ until Christ Himself chose to reveal Himself if He still had the same body and appearance?

Paul also indicated what will happen to our "human bodies" if we are still alive at the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the ages....

1Co 15:50-52...I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. "Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we [who are alive] shall be changed."​

 

[Wrangler]

you stop at Jesus being "crucified" but that is not the FULL story of that momentous event. You say nothing about the resurrection and what you think His resurrection body would be like.

Do you grasp what irrelevant means?

The relevant story is Jesus died and that is how you know he is not God.

 

[Moriah's Song]

The relevant story is Jesus died and that is how you know he is not God.

I see you only gave your "opinion".

Now how about "no human opinion" and some verses to support those "false doctrines of men?"

 

[Moriah's Song]

To deny the resurrection of the body, is to depart from the Faith of the Apostles...

Where did I ever say that I denied the resurrection?

 

[Brakelite]

PJ, you stop at Jesus being "crucified" but that is not the FULL story of that momentous event. You say nothing about the resurrection and what you think His resurrection body would be like.

In 2Co 3:18 we get a pretty good idea what the Christ' resurrected body would be like...."And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit."

Scripture also says that AFTER his resurrection, the Christ suddenly appeared to two men who were on their way to Emmaus just as Christ suddenly appered in the Upper Room even though the door was shut. How did he get there if he still had a human type body?

The following two verses tell us what happended when they arrived in Emmaus...

Luk 24:30...When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them.(Indication of "communion.")
Luk 24:31...And their eyes were opened and they recognized him; and he vanished out of their sight.​

How is it that the two men did not recognize Christ until Christ Himself chose to reveal Himself if He still had the same body and appearance?

Paul also indicated what will happen to our "human bodies" if we are still alive at the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the ages....

1Co 15:50-52...I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. "Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we [who are alive] shall be changed."​

KJV Luke 24:36-39
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
KJV Luke 24:40-43
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

 

[Moriah's Song]

KJV Luke 24:36-39
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
KJV Luke 24:40-43
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

And your point is.....?

 

[Wrangler]

I see you only gave your "opinion".

Nope. It is a fact that Jesus died.

It is also understood that God is eternal, never changing. Death is a major change. Therefore, one who changes is not eternal and not God.

Do you grasp the difference between a logical conclusion and an "opinion?"

That there are other facts about Jesus does not change the fact that they are not relevant to the issue of him not being God. Jesus died and that is how we know he is not God.

 

[Moriah's Song]

It is a fact that Jesus died.

That is the only thing that you wrote that I can come close to agreeing with.

So, who is "the Christ" then?

 

[bbyrd009]

Nope. It is a fact that Jesus died.

It is also understood that God is eternal, never changing. Death is a major change. Therefore, one who changes is not eternal and not God.

Do you grasp the difference between a logical conclusion and an "opinion?"

That there are other facts about Jesus does not change the fact that they are not relevant to the issue of him not being God. Jesus died and that is how we know he is not God.

I said "you are Elohim"

 

[Wrangler]

That is the only thing that you wrote that I can come close to agreeing with.

So, who is "the Christ" then in your JW opinion?

I am not JW. Christ is the Messiah which means Anointed, Anointed by God. God does the Anointing. The man Jesus was acted upon by God in the Anointing.

The Anointed is the means by which God establishes a holy relationship with his Creation. The Anointed is the Liberating King, the Savior of the world, the chosen and selected Son of God.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Jesus died and that is how we know he is not God.

Sorry about the "JW" but if not, how is it that you believe as the JW's believe as to what you wrote above? JW's don't believe in the trinity.

~ Do you believe Jesus was created?
~ Do you believe Jesus died then arose from the dead and later ascended as King to rule the church from heaven?
~ Do you believe Jesus the Christ is eternal?
~ Do you believe "Elohim" is the alternative word for God?​

 

[Brakelite]

And your point is.....?

I quoted scripture on response to your discussion on the nature of the resurrected body of Christ. Take from it what you will.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Do you grasp the difference between a logical conclusion and an "opinion?"

Do you grasp the difference between being insulting while giving your opinion?

 

[Wrangler]

Sorry about the "JW" but if not, how is it that you believe as the JW's believe as to what you wrote above?

independent thought. For me, it started with a priest talking about the 1C. I realized the trinity violates the 1C.

The more I read, the obvious it was how the trinity is a 4th century man-made construct having NOTHING to do with the word of God as evidenced by the trinity not being in the Bible. The doctrine is so important, in 66 books, it is not mentioned once.

An inconvenient fact.

~ Do you believe Jesus was created?

Yes, sons are created by their fathers.

~ Do you believe Jesus died then arose from the dead and later ascended as King to rule the church from heaven?

Scripture is explicit that Jesus was raised from the dead by God. This means Jesus did not arise himself.

~ Do you believe Jesus the Christ is eternal?

Jesus died. He is obviously not eternal.

~ Do you believe "Elohim" is the alternative word for God?

No. Elohim is an alternative word for heavenly beings. God is a heavenly being but that does not mean all Elohim are God.​

 

[Wrangler]

Do you grasp the difference between being insulting while giving your opinion?

Do you?

 

[Moriah's Song]

I realized the trinity violates the 1C.

1C?? Never heard that term before?

 

[Moriah's Song]

The doctrine is so important, in 66 books, it is not mentioned once.

Unbelievers love to point out that the word "trinity" is not in the Bible even though the concept certainly is found in many verses; one of which is in Matthew...

Mat 3:16-17..."And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him; and lo, a voice [God's] from heaven, saying, "This is [my-God's] beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
​

It is because of verses like this that the doctrine of the "trinity" began to be developed by the writers of the NT during the 1st century is clear, otherwise the above would not be in the Bible at all.

 

[Wrangler]

Unbelievers love to point out that the word "trinity" is not in the Bible even though the concept certainly is found in many verses;

Bot the word, not the doctrine. No verse has the doctrine of the trinity. Of course, you have to lower the standard of the concept in looking at Scripture to merely existing but then expand it to beyond what Scripture says on the matter, a condition of salvation and equality, while ignoring what it says against the trinity. ‘For us, there is one God, the Father.’ 1 Cor 8:6.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Jesus died. He is obviously not eternal.

Instead of your "opinion" could you use verses more often please?