The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.

[stunnedbygrace]

Perhaps you would clarify then of whom you speak.

Much love!

Oh my gosh. Apparently I’m not talking about anyone you exhausting fiend.

 

[marks]

That wasn’t my whole statement you quoted. You carefully removed the next few words I said. Lol.
In your experience, men who see a danger to life and limb will jump into it rather than away from it?

I didn't carefully remove anything. I quoted what I felt would be sufficient.

And yes, everyone from daredevils to drug addicts to criminals, all sorts of people knowingly risk their lives in pursuit of both good and evil.

And when you really drill into this thinking . . . not just about life and limb, but, Do people always act according to their own self-interest? No. Do they always act in such way as to preserve their wellbeing? Ask any smoker.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Oh my gosh. Apparently I’m not talking about anyone you exhausting fiend.

I prefer to think of myself as relentless, but a nice guy.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 1:18-23 KJV
18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Much love!

People already know about God, but they choose to forget Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There will be men accepted who had no idea who they gave a cup of water to, just helping by obeying the law written on their heart.

This goes towards rightly dividing. Look at to whom this will apply, and when.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I didn't carefully remove anything. I quoted what I felt would be sufficient.

You quoted what you thought would be sufficient to your point. But my point required both sentences to even be made. You picked a side to argue when no argument was necessary. Go to your room.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I didn't carefully remove anything. I quoted what I felt would be sufficient.

And yes, everyone from daredevils to drug addicts to criminals, all sorts of people knowingly risk their lives in pursuit of both good and evil.

And when you really drill into this thinking . . . not just about life and limb, but, Do people always act according to their own self-interest? No. Do they always act in such way as to preserve their wellbeing? Ask any smoker.

Much love!

Once again, you need the second sentence.

 

[Naomi25]

The inner man serves God, the outer man serves sin. And we will spend the rest of our lives working with the Holy Spirit in learning how, and being trained to be proficient in consistenly walking in the Spirit, instead of allowing the works of the flesh.

We struggle with sin because we live in corrupt flesh - bodies corrupted by sin, with brains corrupted by sin.

It's like we've been born again into a new family, and while we are truly part of that new family, a righteous family, yet we're so used to the old ways, it takes time to retrain.

I agree with you about our life experience. And the reason why we no longer what our old lives is because we've been remade into new people.

Much love!

Mmmm. It may be that we’re fundamentally speaking of the same thing but just using different words…but…I think there is a slight difference.
The reason we sin is not simply because our sinless spirit is caged within this sinful meatsuit. Speaking in a purely physiological sense, our brains are our control centre, our cpu. They have control over the meatsuit, but that control is ultimately directed by our intentions. Which, by any true sense of understanding, comes from the heart of us…our core, our spirit.
And while, as a Christian I now LONG to do good. I long to grow in Christ and renew my mind and always strive for holiness….I am still VERY aware of the thoughts and intentions that come not from simply the lump of meat that is my brain…but from that which IS ME.
The difference between those who have been born again and those who are still dead in their sins is that we ARE AWARE of these thoughts AS sin. We are aware of them and disdain them…flee from them. Those dead in their sins do not…cannot. The dead cannot want to live…they are dead. They remain oblivious to any other state than what they are in.

To me, it is this difference…one that shows Christians still struggle inwardly with sin but strive against it, that makes sense of the admonitions of the NT letters.

 

[marks]

You quoted what you thought would be sufficient to your point. But my point required both sentences to even be made. You picked a side to argue when no argument was necessary. Go to your room.

I don't know what you are going on about. Let's just take a step back.

I quoted what I thought would be sufficient context.

Just let me know what you think is being missed.

Much love!

 

[marks]

but that control is ultimately directed by our intentions. Which, by any true sense of understanding, comes from the heart of us…our core, our spirit.

I think you are correct that for the most part we're speaking of the same things.

Andrew Farley defines the flesh as "a way to feel good about yourself". It took me a long time to understand what he meant. We have a way ingrained in us from our infancy of how to live, and now we are entered into a new way. If we fail to differentiate between spirit and flesh we may find ourselves trying to solve things in the old way.

If we fail to trust that God really has freed us from sin, we can feel helpless, destined to do the same evil things we've hated. These can happen below the surface of the mind, so that we find ourselves acting contrary to our faith.

Our intentions are good, but we get waylaid, we get hijacked, we get confused and turned around, and despondant, not realizing this is fleshy feeling, we just get caught up into it.

The deceptive lusts. Body desires that deceive us into thinking, This is me. I can't stop this. I feel so horrible. This shows I'm evil. Fleshy thinking replaces spiritual thinking, and fleshy action follows.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't know what you are going on about. Let's just take a step back.

I quoted what I thought would be sufficient context.

Just let me know what you think is being missed.

Much love!

What is being missed is my response to the op and what I consider to be dangerous leaven in the “free will” theological construct of man. You took a piece of my aside further remark. There was a point being made.

 

[Truman]

I long for the day when there is the congregation of God...period!

 

[marks]

To me, it is this difference…one that shows Christians still struggle inwardly with sin but strive against it, that makes sense of the admonitions of the NT letters.

To me the heart of this matter is that we are not at war with ourselves, but with our flesh, and we are not our flesh. But we are the one who is controlling our flesh, if we are in fact controlling it.

We have to grow into this.
Much love!

 

[marks]

I consider to be dangerous leaven in the “free will” theological construct of man.

And that is?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And that is?

The entire post

 

[marks]

A man will always freely choose to do the thing that will save his hide, won’t he? Unless he can’t see and hear.

No, he won't always. For a variety of reason, regardless of his knowledge of possible consequences or outcomes.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I was talking in regards to salvation, once he is healed of his blindness.

You think men will generally suddenly see one day that God exists and say, oh my gosh…He exists! Oh, but I don’t care if He exists, I will walk away and refuse Him.

I think men who have their blindness suddenly healed will generally say, well where else could I go? You have the words of eternal life.

So we are in disagreement about what men whose blindness is suddenly healed will do. Your estimation of what men will generally do is opposite of mine. Yours won’t change and neither will mine.

 

[marks]

No man can use something called “freewill” unless his blindness is first healed. After his blindness is healed and he can see God exists,

Romans 1:18-22 KJV
18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

People know God exists. They choose to forget.

After his blindness is healed and he can see God exists, does he use something called freewill or does he just sort of go the only way he can now see there is to go?

Ephesians 4:20-28 KJV
20) But ye have not so learned Christ;
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26) Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27) Neither give place to the devil.
28) Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

We're admonished to make the right choices. If always doing what you know is right is automatic, then why the admonition?

(Where would we go Lord? You have the words of eternal life.)

Should we suppose these words echo in everyone's mind?

I think it’s important to the continuation and growth of the mans humility that he doesn’t beat up blind men as if he himself just chose to see and believe and they choose not to.

I agree. We are not to judge others.

I chose you, you did not choose Me is pretty important to not forget.

Rightly dividing.

Jesus said this to His disciples. He also said that none can come to Him except the Father draw them. But He also said, If He is crucified, He will draw all men to himself. The grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men.

Extreme lack of humility can, and has, ensued in modern Christianity over this “freewill” theological framework that men are indoctrinated into.

I don't really understand what you are saying here, I guess this is the same as what you just said, that if we credit ourselves with our own salvation then we may look down our noses at others. Yeah, that would be wrong.

A man will always freely choose to do the thing that will save his hide, won’t he? Unless he can’t see and hear.

As previous stated, no, he won't always.



Is it your idea that no one will be saved until God removes their blindness, and after that they cannot help but be saved? Like irresistable grace?


Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I just can’t with you tonight marks. The poor mans thread was derailed yesterday and I’m going to stick to his topic now.

 

[MatthewG]

I’m of the opinion everything is over except overcoming the flesh, dying to self, showing love to God first, and love to others no matter if they match one’s standards of quality, all people have sinned. All still fall short, and the only glory you can hold in your heart is Jesus by faith who is your King. And God is coming in and through Christ by the spirit as you live in your flesh. The flesh is what we use for carnal things nothing spiritually about this.