The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.

[stunnedbygrace]

Is it your idea that no one will be saved until God removes their blindness

Yes. Blind men can’t see.
A physician must heal a blind man for him to see.
Dead men can’t see either for that matter.

 

[marks]

Yes. Blind men can’t see.
A physician must heal a blind man for him to see.
Dead men can’t see either for that matter.

And that once the blindness is removed, they will of course believe and be saved?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And that once the blindness is removed, they will of course believe and be saved?

Much love!

If your blindness is healed and you suddenly see God exists, you already believe He exists because you have seen that He does.

so your question makes no sense.

 

[marks]

If your blindness is healed and you suddenly see God exists, you already believe He exists because you have seen that He does.

so your question makes no sense.

Believe and be saved.

Demons believe, but are not saved.

It sounds like you are promoting what Calvinist teach. No one can come to God unless God taps them, and all who God taps will come to Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If your blindness is healed and you suddenly see God exists, you already believe He exists because you have seen that He does.

so your question makes no sense.

And . . . from Romans 1 . . . people already know God exists. I did. A small child, who knew God created everything. But I was not trusting Him, and was not born again. Knowledge is not saving faith.

Much love!

 

[marks]

 

[amigo de christo]

PRESS ONWARDS IN THE GLORIOUS LORD . Let the LORD BE PRAISED .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Believe and be saved.

Exactly.
But I don’t think you would like where that would lead.

 

[amigo de christo]

Exactly.
But I don’t think you would like where that would lead.

This HE said to those who believed on HIM , IF ye CONTINUE in Me the TRUTH shall make you FREE .
That is the glorious work of the LORD . Paul was wise to warn the church , God wont be mocked .
If you sow the the flesh you shall of the flesh reap corruption , sow to the Spirit and reap life everlasting .

 

[marks]

Exactly.
But I don’t think you would like where that would lead.

Exactly what?

This has all stopped making sense to me some time ago. But no matter . . . time for me to run.

Much love!

 

[Naomi25]

I think you are correct that for the most part we're speaking of the same things.

Andrew Farley defines the flesh as "a way to feel good about yourself". It took me a long time to understand what he meant. We have a way ingrained in us from our infancy of how to live, and now we are entered into a new way. If we fail to differentiate between spirit and flesh we may find ourselves trying to solve things in the old way.

If we fail to trust that God really has freed us from sin, we can feel helpless, destined to do the same evil things we've hated. These can happen below the surface of the mind, so that we find ourselves acting contrary to our faith.

Our intentions are good, but we get waylaid, we get hijacked, we get confused and turned around, and despondant, not realizing this is fleshy feeling, we just get caught up into it.

The deceptive lusts. Body desires that deceive us into thinking, This is me. I can't stop this. I feel so horrible. This shows I'm evil. Fleshy thinking replaces spiritual thinking, and fleshy action follows.

Much love!

So, while spirit and flesh are in reality two separate and literal things, here we are speaking of ‘the flesh’ as corruptive (sinful) influences…be it earthly or ingrained in some way.
This, we can agree on!

 

[marks]

Exactly.
But I don’t think you would like where that would lead.

It sounds like you've got something front and center that you are dancing around but not saying. You're losing me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, while spirit and flesh are in reality two separate and literal things, here we are speaking of ‘the flesh’ as corruptive (sinful) influences…be it earthly or ingrained in some way.
This, we can agree on!

Yes!

And it's our job to trust Him to be able to obey Him, and in our trust, do just that, what pleases Him. It will be what we want ourselves, but we may need to be guided into it.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

@stunnedbygrace

My friend. All people are spiritually dead - blind to spiritual things until the light of Christ opens their eyes to the truth.

Adam and Eve both became spiritually dead after being sent out from the Garden. They died that day from their connection with God. God through Jesus has reestablished this connection by reconciliation of the whole world unto himself.

That anyone who comes to Jesus is able to come the Father, and have newness of life given to them.

Am reminded of the story Jesus told in Luke.


“for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry. “Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’ “But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’ “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:24-32‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[amigo de christo]

its time and its high time to serve the glorious Lord . As small children let us cling to the LORD and be in our bibles .
Keep learning and growing in the glorious Lord .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It sounds like you've got something front and center that you are dancing around but not saying. You're losing me.

Much love!

The feeling is mutual.

 

[Naomi25]

To me the heart of this matter is that we are not at war with ourselves, but with our flesh, and we are not our flesh. But we are the one who is controlling our flesh, if we are in fact controlling it.

We have to grow into this.
Much love!

I think there is truth in this. Paul exhorts us to:

1 Corinthians 9:25-27
Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.


I think there is ample evidence that we are not condemned if we ‘fall down’…not as long as we keep our eyes on Christ, the author and perfecter of our faith…but there is the expectation that we exert self control and discipline towards a goal.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

My friend. All people are spiritually dead - blind to spiritual things until the light of Christ opens their eyes to the truth.

I wholeheartedly agree. :)

 

[farouk]

Poor Dave H. is going to come back and wonder, "What the ... happened to my thread?"

@Lambano 'Stream of consciousness' posting....

 

[farouk]

I think there is truth in this. Paul exhorts us to:

1 Corinthians 9:25-27
Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.


I think there is ample evidence that we are not condemned if we ‘fall down’…not as long as we keep our eyes on Christ, the author and perfecter of our faith…but there is the expectation that we exert self control and discipline towards a goal.

@Naomi25 Great verse there....

 

[David H.]

@David H. Getting back on track. I do have something to say that has bothered me about “freewill.” And it sort of ties in to the verse the first responder to you gave, you did not choose Me, I chose you.

No man can use something called “freewill” unless his blindness is first healed. After his blindness is healed and he can see God exists, does he use something called freewill or does he just sort of go the only way he can now see there is to go? (Where would we go Lord? You have the words of eternal life.) I think it’s important to the continuation and growth of the mans humility that he doesn’t beat up blind men as if he himself just chose to see and believe and they choose not to. I chose you, you did not choose Me is pretty important to not forget. Extreme lack of humility can, and has, ensued in modern Christianity over this “freewill” theological framework that men are indoctrinated into.

A man will always freely choose to do the thing that will save his hide, won’t he? Unless he can’t see and hear.

The verses in question are speaking of the Apostles and their ordination as Apostles, and that they would write scripture. Read John 15:16 in its full context. They were chosen of God and sent ones (meaning of Apostle) and they lived lives as saints. The faithful come to faith by hearing the word of God preached. It is the Gospel, "good news" that is preached. It is foolishness to the wise of this world because it involves submitting to God, and repenting, Not by our own strength reaching God. Religion in general is man's endeavor to reach God by His own strength and will, the Gospel is God reaching down to man to show them the impossibility of this. Lifesaving faith results in a changed heart, not just moral asceticism. A changed heart only comes by surrender and submittance to the Work of Christ on the cross, by putting to death our fleshly efforts to please God.

When we are Born again, we are instantly sanctified, made righteous, throughout our lives as believers that transformation of the heart continues as we are progressively sanctified and are made Holy unto the LORD. We are His workmanship, not our own, so we cannot boast (Ephesians 2:8-10). It is this sanctification that Peter speaks of that we must add to our faith. (2 Peter 1:5-10) it is this that we as believers in this life must "make sure". It is this faith that is "like unto the Apostles (1 Peter 1:1) that comes not by our choosing but Obtained by Divine Lot (see definition of Legchano in 2 Peter 1:1 G2975 - lagchanō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org) ) All the faithful are called to be Holy few are chosen to give their testimony as the Apostles were. So yes, man will always choose to do the thing which will save his hide, and the Gospel is intended to appeal to this "selfish" instinct in mankind.... But that is just the start of our sojourn as believers from righteousness to Holiness, the high calling of God in Christ. (Philippians 3:14)

Consider the following scriptures....

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:13-17)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)