The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Kermos]

@Wrangler and @Pearl,

This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

JOHN'S WRITINGS FOR US BELIEVERS

The Apostle John wrote "these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:31).

Among the writings of John includes the statements of Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). These sayings of Jesus Christ, Lord and God (John 20:28), are part and parcel of the exclusive attribute of Jesus with respect to choice in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.

John's writings are for us believers to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing we have life in His Name; therefore, belief in Jesus about whom John wrote includes the exclusive centrality of choice reserved to Jesus by Jesus through Jesus in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)

Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

Related post 6: Lord Jesus' prayer for us believers

Related post 7: Lord Jesus indicates during the supper that more than the 12 apostles were at the supper

 

[quietthinker]

The person who says in their heart "I chose Jesus" is the person who sins against God:

• by self-righteousness just like the Pharisee in the parable of tne Pharisee and the Publican (Luke 18:9-14).
• by rejecting the Word of God and not receiving His sayings (John 12:48), such as "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
• by boasting in their own work of choosing Jesus unto salvation thus opposing Paul's writing in Ephesians 2:8-10.
• by being prideful in their proclamation of "I chose Jesus".
• when the person lies to unsaved people if uttering "God loves you" since unsaved people are sinners under the wrath of God (2 Peter 2:9-10).
• by stealing the glory of God since the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
• in the person's own words of "I chose Jesus" leading to the person's condemnation (Matthew 12:37) for the person's heartfelt defiance of Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

Fruit of the Spirit is evidence of God's salvation; moreover, the belief that Lord Jesus says to all Hiis disciples in all time "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) is fruit of the Spirit

Since God exclusively chooses people unto salvation, then Jesus died only for the people that He has chosen unto salvation.

You are arguing intent and the limitation of words and in the process missing the point. You have fixated on a text and stretch it every which way without understanding the heart of God....the fruit of which is judgement of others.

 

[brightfame52]

See what the Jews didn't know and the world in general, and even most religionist are still ignorant of, is that when God gave Gospel Promises to Israel under the old covenant, as it pertained to the new covenant such as Jer 31:31,33-34


31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:65

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

That included in this House of Israel and Judah was a remnant of men from amongst the gentiles that are fellow-heirs of the same body ! That was a Mystery !

 

[Kermos]

You are arguing intent and the limitation of words and in the process missing the point. You have fixated on a text and stretch it every which way without understanding the heart of God....the fruit of which is judgement of others.

Your writing seems hypocritical to me, considering that you wrote post #2759 followed by my post #2760 followed by your current response. Jesus had a lot to say to the hypocritical Pharisees.

God has me here proclaiming the Word of God to you thus exposing your precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) as shown by much Word of God in post #2748 (mob falls in judgment) and post #2750 (God exclusively causes persons to be His friends) and post #2752 (Lord Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:16 to believers) and post #2756 (Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:14-16 by contextually relating "people who looked at the bronze serpent" and "world") and post #2758 (God exclusively chooses people unto salvation) and post #2760 (the scriptural results of a person professing "I chose Jesus").

That does not look like "fixated" and "stretch" onto a single text or point as you asserted.

The Word of God expresses the heart of God, yet you keep trying to escape the clearly loving Word of God; moreover, you do not express repentance, instead you jump to a different point as demonstrated by the a list of postings above.

Jesus Christ lovingly died exclusively for His friends (John 15:13-15).

 

[quietthinker]

Your writing seems hypocritical to me, considering that you wrote post #2759 followed by my post #2760 followed by your current response. Jesus had a lot to say to the hypocritical Pharisees.

God has me here proclaiming the Word of God to you thus exposing your precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) as shown by much Word of God in post #2748 (mob falls in judgment) and post #2750 (God exclusively causes persons to be His friends) and post #2752 (Lord Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:16 to believers) and post #2756 (Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:14-16 by contextually relating "people who looked at the bronze serpent" and "world") and post #2758 (God exclusively chooses people unto salvation) and post #2760 (the scriptural results of a person professing "I chose Jesus").

That does not look like "fixated" and "stretch" onto a single text or point as you asserted.

The Word of God expresses the heart of God, yet you keep trying to escape the clearly loving Word of God; moreover, you do not express repentance, instead you jump to a different point as demonstrated by the a list of postings above.

Jesus Christ lovingly died exclusively for His friends (John 15:13-15).

interesting progression!....first I seem hypocritical (wave the wand) now there are associations with Pharisees....the bad type of course.....and I haven't repented! shock horror....I always wanted to meet somebody who knew about that part of my life .....Oh no, I'm also an escape artist....wellll, I figure they took Jesus to the brow of the hill to throw him over and he managed to slip through them so I suppose that charge aint so bad :)......and I'm sorry, wading through listings doesn't do it for me!

 

[Kermos]

interesting progression!....first I seem hypocritical (wave the wand) now there are associations with Pharisees....the bad type of course.....and I haven't repented! shock horror....I always wanted to meet somebody who knew about that part of my life .....Oh no, I'm also an escape artist....wellll, I figure they took Jesus to the brow of the hill to throw him over and he managed to slip through them so I suppose that charge aint so bad :)......and I'm sorry, wading through listings doesn't do it for me!

I didn't call you in a escape artist.

I wrote "you keep trying to escape the clearly loving Word of God" which includes His sayings of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The writing of "you keep trying to escape the clearly loving Word of God" puts you in the position of desiring to push Jesus over the brow of the hill (Luke 4:29), so that you can escape from His sayings such as "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Self-willed philosophers (2 Peter 2:9-10) have a foundation of shifting sand (Matthew 7:26-27) who write belligerence against the Word of God like "wading through listings doesn't do it for me" or mocking the absence of repentance with "shock horror" on this forum. The referenced posts in the listing are rich in the wonderful Word of God!

Since God exclusively chooses people unto salvation, then Jesus died only for the people that He has chosen unto salvation.

 

[quietthinker]

I didn't call you in a escape artist.

I wrote "you keep trying to escape the clearly loving Word of God" which includes His sayings of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The writing of "you keep trying to escape the clearly loving Word of God" puts you in the position of desiring to push Jesus over the brow of the hill (Luke 4:29), so that you can escape from His sayings such as "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Self-willed philosophers (2 Peter 2:9-10) have a foundation of shifting sand (Matthew 7:26-27) who write belligerence against the Word of God like "wading through listings doesn't do it for me" or mocking the absence of repentance with "shock horror" on this forum. The referenced posts in the listing are rich in the wonderful Word of God!

Since God exclusively chooses people unto salvation, then Jesus died only for the people that He has chosen unto salvation.

and he has chosen you?

 

[Kermos]

the word 'world' or the expression 'in Adam' as Paul uses it it Romans 5:14-21 means all humanity. This qualifies as Good News for all people just as the angels sang on Bethlehem's Hills. Luke 2:10

It is written "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people" (Luke 2:10).

Notice, you subtracted the definite article for the word "people" in Luke 2:10.

In Luke 2:10, "the people" definitely refers to the people of God, and scripture reveals "the people" are specifically the people with whom God is pleased for the host of heaven praised God saying:

"Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased" (Luke 2:14)

Behold @quietthinker "men with whom He is pleased" (Luke 2:14).

Here is the gospel, here is good news, God sent the Savior to save the people with whom God is pleased from the wrath of God.

In Luke 2:10, "the people" are not everyone everywhere in all time.

God's chosen people are exclusively "the people".

This current post conjoins with my previous post #2756 about how Jesus constrained "world" in John 3:14-16 by contextually relating "world" with "people who looked at the bronze serpent" in Numbers 21:8-9.

Respecting Romans 5:14-21, since the epistle to the Romans by Paul was written to the Assembly of God then a person must be a member of the Assembly of God in order to understand Romans according to the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21), so if you think Jesus justifies all men, then:

• in effect, your thoughts lead to the heresy of universalism, that is, that all men being justified is tbe same as everyone everywhere in all time being saved from the wrath of God, yet that is against scriptural revelation that there are people that go to hell (Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:41).
• in effect, your thoughts lead to the antichrist abomination that Jesus Christ fails to save all men for whom He died to justify; on the other hand, scripture is clear that Lord Jesus Christ succeeds in saving all men for whom He died to justify (John 10:28).

Since God exclusively chooses people unto salvation, then Jesus died only for the people that He has chosen unto salvation.

 

[quietthinker]

Since God exclusively chooses people unto salvation, then Jesus died only for the people that He has chosen unto salvation.

yes, he chose all people for salvation not just a selected few. Isn't that good news?....you are included :)

 

[McFearless]

If a person wasnt part of Christs Church when Christ died for His Church, then Christ didnt die for that person, for Christ died for His Church Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

If you really believe that, why are you on CB. To tell us all that we are not saved?

 

[Daniel Veler]

Christ died for the church. It is God who has given his grace unto the world. The Father said whosoever will let him come. This is grace. The Father has not limited his Grace to a certain group but to all who will come to Him through his Son.

 

[brightfame52]

If you really believe that, why are you on CB. To tell us all that we are not saved?

Im here to discuss the thread " the myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all without exception"

 

[Kermos]

and he has chosen you?

By God's grace I was chosen for God's glory.

I did not choose Lord Jesus for I was at enmity against Jesus when He gave me Life (John 14:6).

He paid the price for the punishment for my sins, and I received my Lord and Savior, and with reverent gratitude I believe in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Power of God, and ever since I have communed with Him in the Holy Spirit of God in sincere joy and genuine love!

My desire, born of God, is that others believe in Jesus Christ, Who He says He is, so that they be fellow partakers in the victorious, wondrous, and marvelous Kingdom of God and unceasing nourishing love of King Jesus.

Did He choose you?

I have a second, related question. Do you say that you chose Jesus?

 

[Kermos]

yes, he chose all people for salvation not just a selected few. Isn't that good news?....you are included :)

Since Lord Jesus Christ is the One Who chooses people without exception, then He chooses who will be His friend, will be saved from the wrath of God, will do fruit of the Spirit, will believe, and will be a citizen of the Kingdom of God (John 15:16).

Since a person cannot choose Lord Jesus without exception, then a person cannot choose to be His friend, to be saved from the wrath of God, to do fruit of the Spirit, to believe, nor to be a citizen of the Kingdom of God (John 15:16).

King Jesus succeeded in paying the price for the crimes of His chosen citizens of the Kingdom of God, and He leaves none behind (John 10:28).

Citizens of the Kingdom of God believe King Jesus, and this includes my King's declarations of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

People who do not receive King Jesus' sayings are untrustworthy because they reject the King of kings and Lord of lords (John 12:48). Such people are unbelievers.

People who receive King Jesus sayings are trustworthy because the Holy Spirit indwells believers in King Jesus whom the Father has sent. Such people are believers.

The King of the Kingdom of God is just to punish the unbeliever and reward the believer, yet it would be unjust to be any other way.

King Jesus is securely in control, and we believers have no need to fear, but rather we have confidence in Him who knows all things, not confidence in our own deceitful flesh, but truly confidence in the Word of God!

Lord Jesus glorifies the Father for He brings home the children of God!

This is good news!

Jesus Christ never fails, so He takes all for whom He died into His everlasting dwelling place. Praise be to God!!!

 

[quietthinker]

By God's grace I was chosen for God's glory.

I did not choose Lord Jesus for I was at enmity against Jesus when He gave me Life (John 14:6).

He paid the price for the punishment for my sins, and I received my Lord and Savior, and with reverent gratitude I believe in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Power of God, and ever since I have communed with Him in the Holy Spirit of God in sincere joy and genuine love!

My desire, born of God, is that others believe in Jesus Christ, Who He says He is, so that they be fellow partakers in the victorious, wondrous, and marvelous Kingdom of God and unceasing nourishing love of King Jesus.

Did He choose you?

I have a second, related question. Do you say that you chose Jesus?

Kermos, I am glad for you and to answer your question, Jesus has chosen us all and I have responded to his call so in that sense I can say I have chosen him. I find no value in arguing semantics.
Our understanding of these things will surely grow if our hearts are open.

 

[Kermos]

Kermos, I am glad for you and to answer your question, Jesus has chosen us all and I have responded to his call so in that sense I can say I have chosen him. I find no value in arguing semantics.
Our understanding of these things will surely grow if our hearts are open.

Oh, @quietthinker,

It is sin unto eternal punishment for a person not to believe in Jesus (John 3:36), and Lord Jesus says Who He is.

Jesus says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16), yet you confessed "I can say I have chosen him" even though the words of Jesus Christ has been proclaimed to you repeatedly.

A "response" is a fruit, and a fruit shows whether a tree is good or bad (Matthew 7:15-20), and a person has either fruit of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21, bad fruit) or fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23, good fruit). You "responded" in the opposite of good fruit for good fruit is confessing the sovereign glory of God in man's salvation.

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 7:21-22).

 

[brightfame52]

It is specifically stated that by His death He shall justify many, not all without exception Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.66

That many is the seed of Israel as promised Isa 45:25

25In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for the church. It is God who has given his grace unto the world. The Father said whosoever will let him come. This is grace. The Father has not limited his Grace to a certain group but to all who will come to Him through his Son.

Yes God did limit His Grace to His Church. Christ died only for His Church.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Yes God did limit His Grace to His Church. Christ died only for His Church.

Was Adam part of the church? We’re the prophets part of it. How about Abraham? You haven’t understood God’s Slavation.

 

[brightfame52]

Was Adam part of the church? We’re the prophets part of it. How about Abraham? You haven’t understood God’s Slavation.

Yes they were/are part of the Church.