Biblical Mary

[Ronald Nolette]

All this has been explained to you many times.
If you wish to remain ignorant of Scripture, anti-Mary and anti-Jesus then so be it.

And all the explanations were humaqn ophilosophizing and hierarchal opinion! No bible to back it up - Just the demand to accept and bvelieve we are the church!

Has Romanism ever taught false doctrine ever?

Give me one Scriptuire that shows Mary is th ewoman found in revelation 12 and show how all th eevents that happened to the woman in REv. 12 happened to Mary. This is a historical report according to Rome as it is Mary, so show th ehistory as well as sCripture that allows Mary to be called Queen of Heaven.

Ne3ither you , BOL, or thee faith has shown Scripture to back it up , just opinion, opinion and more opinion.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

you can’t have it both ways

you can’t say the child is Jesus but the woman is not mary

If the child is Jesus and Mary is his mother the woman must be Mary!!!

man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:

Israel would also give birth to a person, that is a common euphemism both today and Jesus day! It is not both ways it is the biblical way. Mary does not fit all the requirements of REv. 12 and th eevents that happened to the woman both literally and the symbolic ones. It is you that can't have it both ways.

 

[theefaith]

Israel would also give birth to a person, that is a common euphemism both today and Jesus day! It is not both ways it is the biblical way. Mary does not fit all the requirements of REv. 12 and th eevents that happened to the woman both literally and the symbolic ones. It is you that can't have it both ways.

gen 3:15 Mary satans adversary
Rev 12:1 Mary satans adversary

israel is not the adversary of Satan they united in killing Christ crucify him crucify him
They never kept the commandments or had the testimony of Jesus rev 12:17

 

[Ronald Nolette]

co-redemptrix, co mediatrix are not defined catholic dogmas

I’m working on scriptures for the others

From a Catholic website:

“The position of Co-Redemptrix is not that Mary is in a category with the saints under the one Redeemer, and can be called co-redeemer in a sense just like St. Paul is said to help fill up the work of Redemption. No, the position of Co-Redemptrix is that Mary is in a unique category with Jesus as the Redeemer – a category which does not include St. Paul or any other saint. Therefore, one cannot try to substantiate the “Co-Redemptrix” position by appealing to how other saints participate in the work of Redemption under the one Redeemer."

co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix
a comprehensive and critical re-evaluation of this often-misunderstood, true doctrine.
Articles on this subject:
(Booklet now available in Kindle format)

• co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix

• Contra Vox Populi: General Errors

• 13 Reasons To Delay The Definition of A Dogma

• Not Fifth, Not Final, Not Yet A Dogma

• Is it a Heresy to Believe that the Ordinary Magisterium is Infallible?
  
  
  Some excerpts from the first article above, about Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix:
  
  Second Vatican Council: “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from, nor adds anything to, the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.” (Lumen Gentium, n. 62.)
  
  Pope Leo XIII: “The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips.” (Iucunda Semper Expectatione, n. 2)

• It may not be official doctrine or dogma YET, but it is unoiversally taught and accepted- I would not want to shave by th edifference between this acceptance and official dogma.

 

[Tong2020]

Her greatest most sublime dignity is Mother of God!

But at least you don’t deny that in scriptures, what is found is Mary as the female slave of the Lord. Now, I would like to talk about “Mother of God”.

Mother of God.

I am curious, what is a Mother by R.Catholic church definition?

I am pretty sure that the leaders of the R.C. church taught you who God is. But may I ask, did they teach that God is eternal; that God had no beginning and no end; that God had no mother and no father?

Mary, the Mother of God.

I am curious also of this: Do the R.C. church teach that Mary is the Mother of God ~ the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit? Or is she only the Mother of Jesus, the Son?

Tong
R4522

 

[Ronald Nolette]

gen 3:15 Mary satans adversary
Rev 12:1 Mary satans adversary

israel is not the adversary of Satan they united in killing Christ crucify him crucify him
They never kept the commandments or had the testimony of Jesus rev 12:17

Now show these women biblically refer to Mary, not just the opinion of Romansim. We know she is a woman but show why we should reject teh context God speaks botrh in and simply accept the woman is Mary. EWve is called woman all throughout, show from Scripture why god in the middle of calling eve woman many times means someone different this one single time in this context.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It’s not the Bible that tells you to pray that. It’s your leaders who did.

So, there is nowhere written in your Bible that tells you to pray to Mary.

That’s the point I like to make and show to those who visit and read this thread.

She is not mother for no reason
Mother of God
Mother of our salvation
And our sweet mother and advocate
She does not wait for us to ask she sees a need and meets it Jn 2 they have no wine
Jn 2:11 and his apostles believed because of her intercession

At least you don’t deny that there is nowhere written in your Bible that tells you to pray to Mary; and that it is your leaders who told you to do so.

Tong
R4523

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

The passage does not answer the question “what do you suppose praying is?”

The passage also does not tell to pray to Mary.

The communion of saints
All are allowed to pray for each other even those who are departed

Praying for is different from praying to.

Tong
R4524

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Not at all. Only God’s words and teachings satisfy my spirit. And my spirit accepts only God’s word in scriptures to be the truth. God is my help. The words and doctrines of men? Nope. Sorry.

Since when? You accept the tradition of men under king James who say there are only 66 books with many missing books and chapters, and the tradition of men who added the chapters and verses

the Christian rule of faith is scripture and tradition (teaching authority of the apostles)
Christ is the way the truth and the life
The church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

acts 2:42 Bible alone? No the doctrine of men! The teaching authority given by Christ to his church in the persons of peter and the apostles

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

I am curious yet again. This time about what you say concerning the apostolic succession your church teach which you mentioned in your post.

Do R.C. church have a successor to each of the 12 apostles (who were directly chosen and sent by Jesus Christ)?

Tong
R4525

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

The passage you cited does not answer the questions. Unless your Bible says differently.

mary is the throne of grace
All graces come thru her
Lk 1:28 full of grace

I would guess that perhaps you were taught that and were made to believe that by your leaders, or that that is your personal make believe? Any how, either way, that is not taught in scriptures.

How many throne of grace does R.C. church teach you there are? In Hebrews 4:16, how many throne of grace does it say? One or many? Of course, apparently, it does not say there that Mary is the throne of grace.

Tong
R4526

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I. The Uniqueness of Mary as the Mother of God

Gen. 3:15 – we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.” This refers to Jesus (the “emnity”) and Mary (the “woman”). The phrase “her seed” (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture.

Gen 3:15 / Rev. 12:1 – the Scriptures begin and end with the woman battling satan. This points to the power of the woman with the seed and teaches us that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve.

John 2:4, 19:26 – Jesus calls Mary “woman” as she is called in Gen. 3:15. Just as Eve was the mother of the old creation, Mary is the mother of the new creation. This woman’s seed will crush the serpent’s skull. (Her humility Lk 1:48 crushes his pride)

Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23 – a virgin (the Greek word used is “parthenos”) will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means “God is with us.” John 1:14 – God in flesh dwelt among us. Mary is the Virgin Mother of God.

Matt. 2:11 – Luke emphasizes Jesus is with Mary His Mother, and the magi fall down worshiping Jesus.

Luke 1:35 – the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the “Theotokos”).

Luke 1:28 – “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God. (Simply praying scripture)

Luke 1:28 – also, the phrase “full of grace” is translated from the Greek word “kecharitomene.” This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. “Full of grace” is used to describe Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

Luke 1:38 – Mary’s fiat is “let it be done to me according to thy word.” Mary is the perfect model of faith in God, and is worthy of our veneration. (Consented to our salvation )

Luke 1:42 – “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.” The phrase “blessed are you among women” really means “you are most blessed of all women.” A circumlocution is used because there is no superlative in the Greek language. Note also that Elizabeth praises Mary first, and then Jesus. This is hyperdulia (but not latria which is worship owed to God alone). We too can go through Mary to praise Jesus. Finally, Catholics repeat these divinely inspired words of Elizabeth in the Rosary. (All praise of Mary returns to God who created her immaculate without any sin, and to Christ who’s merits virtues and grace fills her immaculate soul!)

Luke 1:43 – Elizabeth’s use of “Mother of my Lord” (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used “Adonai” which means Lord God) is the equivalent of “Holy Mary, Mother of God” which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus’ Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus’ human nature – mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

Luke 1:44 – Mary’s voice causes John the Baptist to leap for joy in Elizabeth’s womb. Luke is teaching us that Mary is our powerful intercessor.

Luke 1:46 – Mary claims that her soul magnifies the Lord. This is a bold statement from a young Jewish girl from Nazareth. Her statement is a strong testimony to her uniqueness. Mary, as our Mother and intercessor, also magnifies our prayers.

Luke 1:48 – Mary prophesies that all generations shall call her blessed, as Catholics do in the “Hail Mary” prayer. What Protestant churches have existed in all generations (none), and how many of them call Mary blessed with special prayers and devotions?

Gal. 4:4 – God sent His Son, born of a woman, to redeem us. Mary is the woman with the redeemer. By calling Mary co-redemptrix, we are simply calling Mary “the woman with the redeemer.” This is because “co” is from the Latin word “cum” which means “with.” Therefore, “co-redemptrix” means “woman with the redeemer.” Mary had a unique but subordinate role to Jesus in salvation.

Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2 – the word “saints” (in Hebrew “qaddiysh”) means “holy” ones. So Mary is called Holy, the greatest Saint of all.

Luke 2:35 – Simeon prophesies that a sword would also pierce Mary’s soul. Mary thus plays a very important role in our redemption. While Jesus’ suffering was all that we needed for redemption, God desired Mary to participate on a subordinate level in her Son’s suffering, just as he allows us to participate through our own sufferings.

Luke 2:19,51 – Mary kept in mind all these things as she pondered them in her heart. Catholics remember this by devoting themselves to Mary’s Immaculate Heart and all the treasures and wisdom and knowledge contained therein.

Did not say any of that.

Tong
R4527

 

[BreadOfLife]

Praying for is different from praying to.

Correct. Prating FO somneone is to petition/intercede on their behalf.
Praying TO someone is to ASK them something - lie YOU did below:

Do R.C. church have a successor to each of the 12 apostles (who were directly chosen and sent by Jesus Christ)?

To "Pray" sijmply means to ASK. This is the primary definition.
The secondary definition includes "worship". This is offered to God alone.

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary defines “Pray” as follows:

Pray
verb \ˈprā\
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

 

[Mungo]

And all the explanations were humaqn ophilosophizing and hierarchal opinion! No bible to back it up - Just the demand to accept and bvelieve we are the church!

Has Romanism ever taught false doctrine ever?

Give me one Scriptuire that shows Mary is th ewoman found in revelation 12 and show how all th eevents that happened to the woman in REv. 12 happened to Mary. This is a historical report according to Rome as it is Mary, so show th ehistory as well as sCripture that allows Mary to be called Queen of Heaven.

Ne3ither you , BOL, or thee faith has shown Scripture to back it up , just opinion, opinion and more opinion.

You mean just like you give your opinions, opinions and more opinions

 

[Mungo]

From a Catholic website:

“The position of Co-Redemptrix is not that Mary is in a category with the saints under the one Redeemer, and can be called co-redeemer in a sense just like St. Paul is said to help fill up the work of Redemption. No, the position of Co-Redemptrix is that Mary is in a unique category with Jesus as the Redeemer – a category which does not include St. Paul or any other saint. Therefore, one cannot try to substantiate the “Co-Redemptrix” position by appealing to how other saints participate in the work of Redemption under the one Redeemer."

co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix
a comprehensive and critical re-evaluation of this often-misunderstood, true doctrine.
Articles on this subject:
(Booklet now available in Kindle format)

• co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix

• Contra Vox Populi: General Errors

• 13 Reasons To Delay The Definition of A Dogma

• Not Fifth, Not Final, Not Yet A Dogma

• Is it a Heresy to Believe that the Ordinary Magisterium is Infallible?
  
  
  Some excerpts from the first article above, about Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix:
  
  Second Vatican Council: “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from, nor adds anything to, the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.” (Lumen Gentium, n. 62.)
  
  Pope Leo XIII: “The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips.” (Iucunda Semper Expectatione, n. 2)

• It may not be official doctrine or dogma YET, but it is unoiversally taught and accepted- I would not want to shave by th edifference between this acceptance and official dogma.

I know that Ronald Conte (Catholic Planet) is very keen on the co-Redemptrix but that does not make it official Catholic teaching. Nor does one persons opinion make it universally taught.

You quote from the Second Vatican Council says Mediatrix not co mediatrix as you claimed.

Regarding co-Redemptrix. This has been ruled out.
Pope Francis said recently:
Pope Francis appeared to flatly reject proposals in some theological circles to add “co-redemptrix” to the list of titles of the Virgin Mary, saying the mother of Jesus never took anything that belonged to her son, and calling the invention of new titles and dogmas “foolishness.”

“She never wanted for herself something that was of her son,” Francis said. “She never introduced herself as co-redemptrix. No. Disciple,” he said, meaning that Mary saw herself as a disciple of Jesus......

What Francis said Thursday is in line with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican’s doctrinal chief during most of St. John Paul II’ papacy, and now Pope emeritus Benedict XVI.

Speaking with Peter Seewald for the book-length interview published as God and the World: A Conversation, the then cardinal said: “The formula ‘co-redemptrix’ departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers, and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings.”

Some time ago this came up on a forum and a participant asked for clarification from Rome.
I can't quote the whole response but this from an article in L' Observatore Romano (Weekly Edition N.23 4 June 1997 - p. 12) is entitled "Declaration of the Theological Commission of the Pontifical International Marian Academy".

1. The titles, as proposed, are ambiguous, as they can be understood in very different ways. Furthermore, the theological direction taken by the Second Vatican Council, which did not wish to define any of these titles, should not be abandoned. The Second Vatican Council did not used the title "Coredemptrix" and uses "Mediatrix" and "Advocate" in a very moderate way (cf Lumen gentium, n. 62).... (snip) : In the first decades of this century the Holy See entrusted the possibility of its definition to three different commissions, the result of which was that the Holy See decided to set the question aside.
   
   2. Even if the titles were assigned a content which could be accepted as belonging to the deposit of the faith, the definition of these titles, however, in the present situation would be lacking in theological clarity, as such titles and the doctrines inherent in them still require further study in a renewed Trinitarian, ecclesiastical and anthropological perspective. Finally, the theologians, especially the non-Catholics, were sensitive to the ecumenical difficulties which would be involved in such a definition.

So not an official dogma and not likely to be one either.

 

[Tong2020]

I know that Ronald Conte (Catholic Planet) is very keen on the co-Redemptrix but that does not make it official Catholic teaching. Nor does one persons opinion make it universally taught.

You quote from the Second Vatican Council says Mediatrix not co mediatrix as you claimed.

Regarding co-Redemptrix. This has been ruled out.
Pope Francis said recently:
Pope Francis appeared to flatly reject proposals in some theological circles to add “co-redemptrix” to the list of titles of the Virgin Mary, saying the mother of Jesus never took anything that belonged to her son, and calling the invention of new titles and dogmas “foolishness.”

“She never wanted for herself something that was of her son,” Francis said. “She never introduced herself as co-redemptrix. No. Disciple,” he said, meaning that Mary saw herself as a disciple of Jesus......

What Francis said Thursday is in line with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican’s doctrinal chief during most of St. John Paul II’ papacy, and now Pope emeritus Benedict XVI.

Speaking with Peter Seewald for the book-length interview published as God and the World: A Conversation, the then cardinal said: “The formula ‘co-redemptrix’ departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers, and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings.”

Some time ago this came up on a forum and a participant asked for clarification from Rome.
I can't quote the whole response but this from an article in L' Observatore Romano (Weekly Edition N.23 4 June 1997 - p. 12) is entitled "Declaration of the Theological Commission of the Pontifical International Marian Academy".

1. The titles, as proposed, are ambiguous, as they can be understood in very different ways. Furthermore, the theological direction taken by the Second Vatican Council, which did not wish to define any of these titles, should not be abandoned. The Second Vatican Council did not used the title "Coredemptrix" and uses "Mediatrix" and "Advocate" in a very moderate way (cf Lumen gentium, n. 62).... (snip) : In the first decades of this century the Holy See entrusted the possibility of its definition to three different commissions, the result of which was that the Holy See decided to set the question aside.
   
   2. Even if the titles were assigned a content which could be accepted as belonging to the deposit of the faith, the definition of these titles, however, in the present situation would be lacking in theological clarity, as such titles and the doctrines inherent in them still require further study in a renewed Trinitarian, ecclesiastical and anthropological perspective. Finally, the theologians, especially the non-Catholics, were sensitive to the ecumenical difficulties which would be involved in such a definition.

So not an official dogma and not likely to be one either.

What I gathered from the many posts of R.C. church members here is that they do not see Mary as Deity and do not worship her. I think this is good.

I think what is controversial is how the many members of R.C. church, from different cultures, times, and places, relates to Mary. Some treat and address her as though she is deity. Some consciously, some not. And this error spread like fire within the R.C. church, even long ago, that some do it because of tradition. Many religious R.C. church members are very zealous when it comes to Mary, but not according to knowledge. And this may as well be true concerning the dead saints.

On a different note, may I ask what is the R.C. teaching. Are church members allowed to pray directly to God? Are they taught to pray directly to God? Are they encourage to pray directly to God? Can a church member confess his sins directly to God and ask for forgiveness through Jesus Christ and could rest assured that they were forgiven?

Tong
R4528

 

[Addy]

I think what is controversial is how the many members of R.C. church, from different cultures, times, and places, relates to Mary. Some treat and address her as though she is deity. Some consciously, some not. And this error spread like fire within the R.C. church, even long ago, that some do it because of tradition. Many religious R.C. church members are very zealous when it comes to Mary, but not according to knowledge. And this may as well be true concerning the dead saints.

I think another issue is the belief/teaching regarding Mary's perpetual virginity rather than simply a virgin birth. Catholic teaching states that Mary remained virginal through out her entire life and that her and Joseph never consummated their marriage. This is IMPOSSIBLE to prove... and is rather a false glorification of Mary in my opinion.
So nice to see you my DEAR brother in Christ.

 

[Tong2020]

I think another issue is the belief/teaching regarding Mary's perpetual virginity rather than simply a virgin birth. Catholic teaching states that Mary remained virginal through out her entire life and that her and Joseph never consummated their marriage. This is IMPOSSIBLE to prove... and is rather a false glorification of Mary in my opinion.
So nice to see you my DEAR brother in Christ.

I am inclined to agree with you that such is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove. That being the case, it will be truly sad if it is dogmatically taught.

Nice to see you too sis!

Tong
R4529

 

[theefaith]

From a Catholic website:

“The position of Co-Redemptrix is not that Mary is in a category with the saints under the one Redeemer, and can be called co-redeemer in a sense just like St. Paul is said to help fill up the work of Redemption. No, the position of Co-Redemptrix is that Mary is in a unique category with Jesus as the Redeemer – a category which does not include St. Paul or any other saint. Therefore, one cannot try to substantiate the “Co-Redemptrix” position by appealing to how other saints participate in the work of Redemption under the one Redeemer."

co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix
a comprehensive and critical re-evaluation of this often-misunderstood, true doctrine.
Articles on this subject:
(Booklet now available in Kindle format)

• co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix

• Contra Vox Populi: General Errors

• 13 Reasons To Delay The Definition of A Dogma

• Not Fifth, Not Final, Not Yet A Dogma

• Is it a Heresy to Believe that the Ordinary Magisterium is Infallible?
  
  
  Some excerpts from the first article above, about Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix:
  
  Second Vatican Council: “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from, nor adds anything to, the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.” (Lumen Gentium, n. 62.)
  
  Pope Leo XIII: “The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips.” (Iucunda Semper Expectatione, n. 2)

• It may not be official doctrine or dogma YET, but it is unoiversally taught and accepted- I would not want to shave by th edifference between this acceptance and official dogma.

we can only pray to God for the blessed day our immaculate queen receives the glorious domga’s she so richly deserves for they spring from her exalted dignity as mother of God!

 

[Mungo]

What I gathered from the many posts of R.C. church members here is that they do not see Mary as Deity and do not worship her. I think this is good.

Of course Catholics do not see Mary as a deity. That would be against 2,000 years of Catholic teaching.

I think what is controversial is how the many members of R.C. church, from different cultures, times, and places, relates to Mary. Some treat and address her as though she is deity. Some consciously, some not.

I think that is a perception of some Protestants but it is an incorrect perception

And this error spread like fire within the R.C. church, even long ago, that some do it because of tradition. Many religious R.C. church members are very zealous when it comes to Mary, but not according to knowledge. And this may as well be true concerning the dead saints.

There is no tradition or practice to treat Mary as a deity. You err to suggest it.

On a different note, may I ask what is the R.C. teaching. Are church members allowed to pray directly to God? Are they taught to pray directly to God? Are they encourage to pray directly to God?

Of course Catholics pray to God. Most prayers are to God.
The Mass is the pinnacle of Catholic worship of God.
All the prayers in the Mass are directed to God.
I think the one prayer common to most (if not all) liturgies is the "Our Father".

Can a church member confess his sins directly to God and ask for forgiveness through Jesus Christ and could rest assured that they were forgiven?

That is possible, but the Church encourages sacramental confession. This is what the Catechism says:
"Individual, integral confession and absolution remain the only ordinary way for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church, unless physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession." There are profound reasons for this. Christ is at work in each of the sacraments. He personally addresses every sinner: "My son, your sins are forgiven."[MK 2:5]He is the physician tending each one of the sick who need him to cure them [Mk 2:17]. He raises them up and reintegrates them into fraternal communion. Personal confession is thus the form most expressive of reconciliation with God and with the Church.

 

[theefaith]

But at least you don’t deny that in scriptures, what is found is Mary as the female slave of the Lord. Now, I would like to talk about “Mother of God”.

Mother of God.

I am curious, what is a Mother by R.Catholic church definition?

I am pretty sure that the leaders of the R.C. church taught you who God is. But may I ask, did they teach that God is eternal; that God had no beginning and no end; that God had no mother and no father?

Mary, the Mother of God.

I am curious also of this: Do the R.C. church teach that Mary is the Mother of God ~ the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit? Or is she only the Mother of Jesus, the Son?

Tong
R4522

good points

Mary is not the mother (or source) of the divine nature.
Mary is not the mother of the father.
Mary is not the mother of the Holy Spirit.

Mary is the mother of God Lk 1:43

because Jesus Christ is God and Mary is His mother.
The mother of His entire person not only His body & blood which came from Her.
But of His person!

Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?