Telling random strangers that Jesus loves them

[Addy]

I'll come over and have another excuse to push my lil sister around.

HAHA.... I just love your owl... makes me smile..

And I give up trying to stay on topic... that is why I created Dear Addy... but it's not 100% effective... Addy is the Queen of random comments... Gotta love me.

 

[Taken]

Cherish those moments... soon enough comes the time where they ask to be dropped of 2 blocks from school... because it's not cool... lol
What a precious story....
OOPS... Addy you mis read... you said your daughter... not your grand daughter... so YOU already know about what I just said... LOL

Never had that issue, with my kids of geeze, don't want to be seen with a parent. :)

 

[Truman]

I used to think that thread topics were just conversation starters...did I just hear, "O-o-h..?" Oops! Lol

 

[Taken]

you might contemplate showing strangers that you love them, without saying anything? At least sometimes, maybe?

Happen to overhear a husband and wife arguing....I probably would not pipe in..."Jesus loves you"....or maybe...it would stop their arguing and them instead talk about my intrusion...
Things work in mysterious ways. ;)

 

[Addy]

What a wonderful post! This tells me that you yourself love Jesus and want others to come to love him too.....
But what did Jesus ask his disciples to do? Was it to tell people that Jesus loved them? I can't see a single passage that indicates that this was to be the message that they were to preach. Jesus told them that he loved them, but what did Jesus tell them to preach to others about?
God's Kingdom!

If people are NOT told Jesus loves them... there's not much use in telling them about the kingdom.

 

[Addy]

This is quite concerning to me really, because emotions are not a sound basis for faith. Knowledge is what builds faith, not supernatural events or visitations that make you feel 'special'. The psych wards are full of those people......who knows if any of them are real? It doesn't matter because to them it was real.

I find that knowledge often builds pride.

 

[Addy]

I like to know what people think and why they come to their conclusions.....us Aussies are often told how rude we are....but we are just not interested in the whole "political correctness" thing. We have a tendency to tell it like it is, and no offense is intended.....but often taken.

Us Canadians might be considered polite... but we are NOT door mats to bullies... I also have a tendency to tell it like it is.
If you are truly interested in what people have to say... you might also think about how you respond. Respect is earned.

 

[bbyrd009]

Happen to overhear a husband and wife arguing....I probably would not pipe in..."Jesus loves you"....or maybe...it would stop their arguing and them instead talk about my intrusion...
Things work in mysterious ways. ;)

well, i guess we’re all different for a good reason?

 

[bbyrd009]

I find that knowledge often builds pride.

“I don’t know anything. Ever. It’s really quite relaxing.” DGently

 

[Aunty Jane]

Let's exhaust this one.
....and I would add, what if Jesus has it covered even if there is no repentance??....ohhhhhh, now I'm going out on a limb, however please don't jump to conclusions using the principles of the kingdom of men; the 'paradigm' which drips from our lips before we've understood the principles of 'The Kingdom of God' :)

OK, I’ll bite .....sin without repentance? I can find nothing to confirm that statement scripturally, but lots to argue against it.
Free will is really the issue IMO. If God gave us all “options” (choices) about what to do in any given situation, and he evaluates our choices based on why we made them, then he has a basis for judgment that has no equal. You cannot pretend to be what you are not, when God knows you thinking and motives. All are therefore under the same judgment.

Our forgiveness, according to scripture has two important components....our acceptance of Christ’s ransom and a commitment to follow through on obedience to his teachings......and the fact that we must forgive others in order to have our own sins forgiven. Jesus even incorporated this principle in the Lord’s Prayer.

So the paradigm I subscribe to, is the one clearly stated in scripture.
Right from the beginning, all God has ever asked of his human creation is obedience.
Free will was meant to be a gift, but abusing it turned it into a curse. Abusing it required an act of disobedience....and that had long term consequences.

In Eden, our first parents had choices and under external and internal influences, and they exercised their free will badly. We are the collateral damage of their choices. But we were not left without hope, right away God gave the first prophesy in Genesis 3:15, the players and the outworking of which remained a mystery for millennia.

I believe that we today have the answers to the mystery because of what is revealed about God’s Kingdom in the Bible. Daniel’s prophesies reveal so much now, because they were written for us in “the time of the end”. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)

Have you examined them? We can do so on another thread if you like.....:)

 

[Taken]

well, i guess we’re all different for a good reason?

Yep, we're all different and so are scenarios we come across by happenstance.

Haven't see you around for awhile, hope all is well with you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[farouk]

I relate to this

Hi @GodsBeloved11 We are all different, but in the end it's all about having a desire in the heart to tell others, right? :)

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3.15).

 

[GodsBeloved11]

Hi @GodsBeloved11 We are all different, but in the end it's all about having a desire in the heart to tell others, right? :)

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3.15).

Oh I already do that, but it best to do it at the right time when people are.receptive to the gospel. If they want to know what I believe for example

 

[farouk]

Oh I already do that, but it best to do it at the right time when people are.receptive to the gospel. If they want to know what I believe for example

@GodsBeloved11 God bless you... :)

 

[GodsBeloved11]

@GodsBeloved11 God bless you... :)

You too

 

[quietthinker]

OK, I’ll bite .....sin without repentance? I can find nothing to confirm that statement scripturally, but lots to argue against it.
Free will is really the issue IMO. If God gave us all “options” (choices) about what to do in any given situation, and he evaluates our choices based on why we made them, then he has a basis for judgment that has no equal. You cannot pretend to be what you are not, when God knows you thinking and motives. All are therefore under the same judgment.

Our forgiveness, according to scripture has two important components....our acceptance of Christ’s ransom and a commitment to follow through on obedience to his teachings......and the fact that we must forgive others in order to have our own sins forgiven. Jesus even incorporated this principle in the Lord’s Prayer.

So the paradigm I subscribe to, is the one clearly stated in scripture.
Right from the beginning, all God has ever asked of his human creation is obedience.
Free will was meant to be a gift, but abusing it turned it into a curse. Abusing it required an act of disobedience....and that had long term consequences.

In Eden, our first parents had choices and under external and internal influences, and they exercised their free will badly. We are the collateral damage of their choices. But we were not left without hope, right away God gave the first prophesy in Genesis 3:15, the players and the outworking of which remained a mystery for millennia.

I believe that we today have the answers to the mystery because of what is revealed about God’s Kingdom in the Bible. Daniel’s prophesies reveal so much now, because they were written for us in “the time of the end”. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)

Have you examined them? We can do so on another thread if you like.....:)

A gift and a trade are two totally different arrangements. A gift given with the intention or expectation of something, anything given in return no longer qualifies as a gift, it becomes a trade of the underhanded sort.

You get invited to dinner and you don't reciprocate with an invite, will you get another invite from the same people?....I've tried it, I know how it works.
Invite people for dinner, put on more than is expected and folk are appreciative even while they voice 'we will have to have you over, you've put on such a great meal, it was overflowing, we owe you'. What they're saying is, we'll have to pay you back. It comes natural, they know the unspoken rules of being 'polite' yet ultimately they feel indebted and cannot imagine it being my joy as a gift with no reciprocation desired

What a tangle....what an ingrained assumption that nothing is free. Well, that is surely the case in the kingdoms of men because it's their M.O....they are traders....not givers in the true sense of the word, but often Oh so well concealed.....and what do we do next?....we superimpose our value structure onto God defending it to the, dare I say, death?

We do not think that God will forgive without requiring a repayment of some sorts, somehow. We have our list, repentance, faith, good works, law keeping etc. We even prescribe their details, dotting i's and crossing t's and it depends on how religious one is as to how finicky it gets.
Jesus knew all about this; his mates where rubbing some heads of grain in their hands to be refreshed in their Sabbath walkabout....BANG, the holier than thou fraternity were right onto it......yeah, he healed a man with a shrivelled hand in the Synagogue on the Sabbath and the head honchos made plans to kill him. What! kill him because he healed a man on the Sabbath?.....that's where this stuff goes!

Ok, let's regress a little to get a perspective. For forgiveness to happen for the Jew it was required of them to take a lamb to the Priest, confess their sins over its head and cut its throat catching the blood which them went through a process of its own...that's how it was.

John the Baptist comes along and tells the people, repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of sins....hey! what happened to all the temple stuff? the lamb, the blood not to mention the threat to the thriving temple economy with extortion inbuilt??

Then along comes Jesus....his thing is the Kingdom of God. He touches lepers, oh dear, now he's unclean but it doesn't seem to bother him, he accepts invitations from those of ill repute knowing the gossip mongers from the holier than thou fellowship would ensure his reputation would be, how should I say this?...put under heel...that'll do. He lets a 'loose' woman touch him by wiping her tears that fell on his feet with her hair.

There are many other stories of this nature but let's go on. A paralytic on a mat is let down through a roof right smack in front of him as he was talking to the crowd. The crippled man says nothing....he couldn't even get himself to Jesus without his friends efforts....Jesus says, your sins are forgiven! holy moly, what's this? no temple, no lamb, no blood, no repentance, no baptism and yet Jesus just says 'your sins are forgiven you'. The thief on the cross, yup, no temple, no lamb, no blood, no repentance, no baptism and Jesus promises him eternity because he asked to be remembered.

What we are seeing is God's Kingdom on display.....God forgiving because he loves.....even those who murdered him. Is he ever going to withdraw that forgiveness because they didn't 'trade' ie, repented or except him as their Saviour? I don't think so.
John tells us God oozes love and in him is no darkness at all.....that includes no revenge. Love holds no record of wrongs....is that a familiar text? 1Cor. 13

I knew it, we struggle to imagine this, given all the texts of God's Wrath.

Sooo, what's going on here?? It's like this; We will not repent if we do not see God's kindness of forgiveness and if and when we do see it and reject it does that mean that God withdraws his forgiveness....Oh no, love does not do that. Your kid breaks your favourite china ornament passed down from your grandparents which he purchased as an antique from the sixteenth century...he does it in a rage and doesn't say sorry....do you disown him? I'll let you answer that but one thing is certain, if he never comes clean how can he ever connect meaningfully with you even if you forgive him because he is the child of your womb?

Repentance connects our experience with God, it doesn't initiate God's forgiveness of us; that was done before the world began.
Jesus' incarnation and death revealed to the Universe the extent to which God would go....it was the manifestation of his kingdom.
We are the beneficiaries.
Those lost will be lost because they refused God's Salvation....not because God is seeking revenge. I think God will be weeping as those he gave is life for come to their sticky end.....they have preferred desolation instead of life.....they can never say, life was not given them; they had it but refused it.

Judas can never say he didn't participate in Jesus' glory, in Jesus' life.....he had it but refused it!

 

[Aunty Jane]

A gift and a trade are two totally different arrangements. A gift given with the intention or expectation of something, anything given in return no longer qualifies as a gift, it becomes a trade of the underhanded sort.

Let me just start by saying I can see your points, but I don't think you quite get the reason why we need God's forgiveness in order to attain the benefits of the Kingdom.....this is why I asked if you had ever studied Daniel, who's book is of great significance in the "time of the end". Do you believe that we are living in the "last days" of this present world order?
There is a reason why the preaching of this kingdom is so significant right now. (Matthew 24:14) The "time of the end" is linked to Christ's return.

We do not think that God will forgive without requiring a repayment of some sorts, somehow. We have our list, repentance, faith, good works, law keeping etc. We even prescribe their details, dotting i's and crossing t's and it depends on how religious one is as to how finicky it gets.
Jesus knew all about this; his mates where rubbing some heads of grain in their hands to be refreshed in their Sabbath walkabout....BANG, the holier than thou fraternity were right onto it......yeah, he healed a man with a shrivelled hand in the Synagogue on the Sabbath and the head honchos made plans to kill him. What! kill him because he healed a man on the Sabbath?.....that's where this stuff goes!

Requiring payment is what the "ransom" is all about.
1 Timothy 2:5-6...
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

A "ransom" is the price demanded for the release of a captive. In our case, a release from captivity to sin and death...a debt left to us by our first parents.
Also called "redemption" it was a price paid to get a debtor out of his debt. A 'redeemer' could be a wealthy benefactor or a relative or friend who had the means to pay the debt and release the debtor. Another way to pay the debt was to send a son or daughter into service for the one who was owed the money, until the debt was paid.

Jesus paid to get us all out of our debt....to provide forgiveness in exchange for his payment. But in a parable he gave, he showed that it was possible to lose our forgiveness, if we failed to forgive others. Like life itself....forgiveness is conditional. It is God who places the conditions on our continuing life.
(Matthew 18:23-35)

Ok, let's regress a little to get a perspective. For forgiveness to happen for the Jew it was required of them to take a lamb to the Priest, confess their sins over its head and cut its throat catching the blood which them went through a process of its own...that's how it was.

John the Baptist comes along and tells the people, repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of sins....hey! what happened to all the temple stuff? the lamb, the blood not to mention the threat to the thriving temple economy with extortion inbuilt??

It was John the baptist himself who called Jesus "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". (John 1:26-30)
Baptism was unknown to the Jews, but here was one they recognized as a prophet, giving them a way to obtain forgiveness of their sins against the Law, by full immersion baptism. This was not Christian baptism however....any who followed the Christ (to whom John pointed the way) had to be baptized again as a disciple of Christ. John knew that the Pharisees had lost the plot spiritually speaking. (Matthew 3:7-10)

Then along comes Jesus....his thing is the Kingdom of God. He touches lepers, oh dear, now he's unclean but it doesn't seem to bother him, he accepts invitations from those of ill repute knowing the gossip mongers from the holier than thou fellowship would ensure his reputation would be, how should I say this?...put under heel...that'll do. He lets a 'loose' woman touch him by wiping her tears that fell on his feet with her hair.

Yes, he was not judgmental, but offered his message of salvation to those whom the Pharisees had written off. These were "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (he was not sent to the wicked Jewish leaders who had already proven themselves incorrigible)....and these 'sinners' were "lost" because of their shepherds' neglect. Jesus did not hang around with sinners to make them feel better about being sinners, but to show them how to repent and come to God through him as Messiah and King. (John 6:65)

 

[Aunty Jane]

There are many other stories of this nature but let's go on. A paralytic on a mat is let down through a roof right smack in front of him as he was talking to the crowd. The crippled man says nothing....he couldn't even get himself to Jesus without his friends efforts....Jesus says, your sins are forgiven! holy moly, what's this? no temple, no lamb, no blood, no repentance, no baptism and yet Jesus just says 'your sins are forgiven you'.

Yes...Jesus' authority to forgive sins came from his Father. That got right up the Pharisees' noses. They could not deny his miracles some of which they may have witnessed themselves. After Lazarus' resurrection they had planned to kill them both.

Jesus was about to introduce "the New Covenant" which the Jews knew about through Jeremiah. (Jeremiah 31:31-32)
As a devout Jew, Jesus would never have prevented the Jews from fulfilling their obligations under the law, but he was preparing them for the inauguration of the new arrangement. His own blood would be offered "once for all time" so that they would never need to offer animal sacrifices again.

The thief on the cross, yup, no temple, no lamb, no blood, no repentance, no baptism and Jesus promises him eternity because he asked to be remembered.

This is a much misunderstood and misinterpreted event IMO. The thieves hung alongside Jesus just prior to this, had both been reproaching Jesus. (Matthew 27:44) But one of them had a change of heart and asked to be remembered by Jesus when he got into his Kingdom....Jesus answer is not what most people assume. He said...“Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Now there is a comma placed in that verse, but the Greek language had no punctuation, so the commas were inserted at the digression of the translator. But if you move the comma from after the word "you" (which you will find in most translations) and put it after the word "today" the whole meaning of Jesus words to that man is changed.

So we have to ask, which is more correct and agrees with the rest of scripture? Did Jesus go to heaven that day? The answer is no! He was in his tomb for three days and nights according to his own words. And after his resurrection, he stayed on earth for 40 days to strengthen his devastated apostles. So it was impossible for the thief to be "with Jesus" in heaven "that day".

So what did Jesus actually promise this man? He told him, as a promise made that day, that he would be with him in "paradise"...not heaven. Where is this paradise? Where was the first paradise? Where did Jews expect to be resurrected? They had no idea about going to heaven because they believed that the Kingdom of God would be established on earth. So what did the thief understand Jesus' words to mean? Not what Christendom's churches teach.
This man will be among the "unrighteous" who will be resurrected after Jesus establishes his Kingdom over this earth. (Acts 24:15; John 5:28-29) Again we have to know what the Kingdom is....

What we are seeing is God's Kingdom on display.....God forgiving because he loves.....even those who murdered him. Is he ever going to withdraw that forgiveness because they didn't 'trade' ie, repented or except him as their Saviour? I don't think so.
John tells us God oozes love and in him is no darkness at all.....that includes no revenge. Love holds no record of wrongs....is that a familiar text? 1Cor. 13

This is why we need to go and take a look at the prophesies in Daniel.....
Those whom Jesus asked God to forgive for his murder were the Roman soldiers, not the Jewish leaders who had orchestrated his death. (Read Matthew 23. These he condemned to "gehenna". Love prompts God to exercise his equally important justice.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I knew it, we struggle to imagine this, given all the texts of God's Wrath.

Why do you think that they are there? Does God change? Will God restrain his wrath if he has good reason to express it? We will all find that out I think....

Sooo, what's going on here?? It's like this; We will not repent if we do not see God's kindness of forgiveness and if and when we do see it and reject it does that mean that God withdraws his forgiveness....Oh no, love does not do that. Your kid breaks your favourite china ornament passed down from your grandparents which he purchased as an antique from the sixteenth century...he does it in a rage and doesn't say sorry....do you disown him? I'll let you answer that but one thing is certain, if he never comes clean how can he ever connect meaningfully with you even if you forgive him because he is the child of your womb?

Now you are projecting human behaviour on God.
He does not withdraw forgiveness when he never granted it in the first place. Forgiveness takes place on merit.....it is something we have to earn if we want it applied to us. Unless there is repentance, no forgiveness is granted. "Grace" is not a license to sin with impunity like it doesn't matter...Christ has you covered. No, sorry I don't buy that.

Repentance connects our experience with God, it doesn't initiate God's forgiveness of us; that was done before the world began.

Nope, can't agree with that either. There was nothing to forgive before the world began....
The trouble didn't start until after the man's sin.

As sinners, we are all going to mess up from time to time.....its not the sin, per se that is the deal breaker....its our attitude towards it. God made laws to be obeyed...if you know something is wrong before you do it, and you don't stop yourself from committing it, what excuse do you have?
Premeditated wrongdoing makes you doubly accountable. We cannot act as if we can hide even our thoughts from God. (Hebrews 4:13) So we will account for our actions.

Jesus' incarnation and death revealed to the Universe the extent to which God would go....it was the manifestation of his kingdom.

So again I have to ask, since you put it that way....what is God's Kingdom? I know what I believe it is, but that doesn't fit your definition at all so far.

We are the beneficiaries.

Beneficiaries of what exactly?

Those lost will be lost because they refused God's Salvation....not because God is seeking revenge. I think God will be weeping as those he gave is life for come to their sticky end.....they have preferred desolation instead of life.....they can never say, life was not given them; they had it but refused it.

Yes I agree, but at what point then does God decide who is to live forever and who is not?
Who are the "few" and who are the "many" in Matthew 7:13-14? Who is Jesus rejecting in vs 21-23 and why? They sound like those who think that they are living a good Christian life......so how do you read those scriptures with your present POV?

Judas can never say he didn't participate in Jesus' glory, in Jesus' life.....he had it but refused it!

Like satan, Judas was overreached by his own desires. (James 1:13-15)
Both started off well enough, but each succumbed to the internal and external forces that led them to sin unforgivably.

 

[quietthinker]

Let me just start by saying I can see your points, but I don't think you quite get the reason why we need God's forgiveness in order to attain the benefits of the Kingdom.....this is why I asked if you had ever studied Daniel, who's book is of great significance in the "time of the end". Do you believe that we are living in the "last days" of this present world order?

Firstly, thanks for answering my post in detail. Yes, I am very familiar with Daniel and yes, I do think we are in the last days.

Requiring payment is what the "ransom" is all about.
1 Timothy 2:5-6...
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

A "ransom" is the price demanded for the release of a captive. In our case, a release from captivity to sin and death...a debt left to us by our first parents.
Also called "redemption" it was a price paid to get a debtor out of his debt. A 'redeemer' could be a wealthy benefactor or a relative or friend who had the means to pay the debt and release the debtor. Another way to pay the debt was to send a son or daughter into service for the one who was owed the money, until the debt was paid.

Jesus paid to get us all out of our debt....to provide forgiveness in exchange for his payment. But in a parable he gave, he showed that it was possible to lose our forgiveness, if we failed to forgive others. Like life itself....forgiveness is conditional. It is God who places the conditions on our continuing life.
(Matthew 18:23-35)

This is tricky because we can hear in different ways, for eg....when we speak of Jesus giving his life we automatically hear that he gave his death....ie, God needed blood to be appeased before he would forgive, however, consider this view:- he gave his Life ie, his 33 yrs of living freely, everything he did was gratuitous so that we could witness how God is....his character....he gave it to us without charge; he gave it to the human race.....we didn't ask him....he gave it because we needed it. Now what do I mean by that? We die because Adam blew it; death is inherited, everything dies, babies, animals, plants....non of these have sinned.
Jesus gave us his life but we killed him....you could say he bought us back, ransomed us.
'.....As in Adam all die so in Christ shall all be made alive.....' see 1 Corinthians 15:20-22 and also Romans 5:15-19

If forgiveness is conditional how is it that Jesus forgave as he did his thing here on earth without being asked. The contexts of the recorded events where he did this reveal he made no conditions, it was free....he did it because they needed it even more so than they needed physical healing. Being forgiven enabled them to live godly lives. They did not live godly lives in order to be forgiven....it was quiet the reverse....different to how we do it don't you think?
He raised the dead; they didn't ask him.....'....in all things he is preeminent....' Colossians 1:18

It was John the baptist himself who called Jesus "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". (John 1:26-30)
Baptism was unknown to the Jews, but here was one they recognized as a prophet, giving them a way to obtain forgiveness of their sins against the Law, by full immersion baptism.

I mentioned John because he is mid process between the temple activity and Jesus....he was the forerunner. There is a progression from Temple to John to Jesus regarding forgiveness.
1... Temple activity requires priests and lambs and blood and confession
2....John side stepped Temple activity but required Repentance and Baptism
3....Jesus require neither; he forgave without sacrifices, without confession, without repentance, without Baptism

I am not saying that Temple and Priests and lambs and blood and confession and repentance and baptism are a bad thing; I am saying these things were not prerequisites for Jesus to forgive. All the previous were stages or steps if you like in the historical process till Jesus.
In Jesus we have the full revelation of God (because that's the question, what is God really like?) we see his Kingdom; how he operates.

Jesus, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world....he takes it away by forgiving it....who's sin? that of the world....I don't think that excludes anybody.
He allowed himself to be killed, to be pushed to the absolute extreme publicly; it revealed and exposed the two powers in the Universe (good and evil, God and the Devil) it unfolded the true nature of their characters.

So again I have to ask, since you put it that way....what is God's Kingdom? I know what I believe it is, but that doesn't fit your definition at all so far.

God's Kingdom is the revelation of how God runs the Universe. It is a 'system' of free voluntary loving service full of beauty and desirable attributes; it is a reality where selfishness and self seeking is foreign and dysfunction does not exist. It is the reality modelled by Jesus.

Beneficiaries of what exactly?

Forgiveness, Justification and Life Eternal.